"Be Careful, You'll Have More Into It Than It's Worth"

[downslope]

I often see cautionary warnings similar to this when someone seeks advice about buying and/or repairing/restoring a tractor.
I was wondering what the reasons might be that a person would get into a repair or restoration knowing full well beforehand that the cost of repairs will exceed the value of the machine?

Let's disregard the case of sentimental value (like it was grandpa's Farmall H, or something like that).

It seems to me it's pretty easy to throw serious money into an older worker tractor, especially if you don't perform all the work yourself, and you can end up investing more than it's worth in the end.

I have some thoughts about this but I'd like to hear what others have to say.

 

[DT86]

Well for me personally while I might have more money in a older machine than its worth, you could not replace said older machine for the money spent fixing it plus value prior to fixing it.

 

[boggen]

like everyone, we all have our "hobbies" or "projects", and we like doing this or that. regardless of money. some folks just like fixing things and restoring them. my cousin, as he has grown up over the years. as his knowledge becomes better and more cash becomes available. buys and restores go-carts, motorcycles, 4-wheelers. then run them down fix them and sale them, for his next interest of what ever that maybe.

ya same things do not make sense, but as long as ya having fun, that is all there is to it.

===============
on other hand, there is a different needs/wants. and needing an actual working tractor to deal with a hobby that does not revolve around tractors. and fixing up a old run down tractor, may not make much sense, in time and cash invested to get it back up and running compared to something else out there on the market.

 

[mikehaugen]

Hobbies are hobbies, and are expensive. I don't bowhunt like I used to, but when I did I would frequently see people that would spend thousands and thousands on hunting equipment. Not too many hunters would bring in enough meat to offset those costs, it is really just for the sport. Most people were willing to put more money into the equipment than they were willing to put time into being a good hunter.

There are few people that do restorations for profit, for most it it satisfaction of a before and after product. This is true whether it be tractors, cars, guns, or whatever.

 

[mikehaugen]

alright, so I guess boggen had the same thoughts as me, just types faster!

 

[KTurner]

I often see cautionary warnings similar to this when someone seeks advice about buying and/or repairing/restoring a tractor.
I was wondering what the reasons might be that a person would get into a repair or restoration knowing full well beforehand that the cost of repairs will exceed the value of the machine?

There are different ways to view value. You can look at what you can sell it for today. You can look at what it would cost you to replace it. You could look at how much use you could get out of it after fixing whats broke. Then also throw in sentimental value, hobby, known versus unknown (why replace something you know only has one problem with something that may have many more). People chiming in about exceeding value are probably thinking about todays sell value. You could go on to other personal choices, such as conservation, environment, etc. Why trash something when its still mostly good? Use it up until its falling apart. That mentality helps keep stuff out of the landfill and helps conserve natural resources. If more people did that, maybe we wouldn't live in such a disposable world.

Another thing I've witnessed when I used to sell/upgrade computers, and I've certainly heard the same things about vehicles. Some guys want to upgrade but have to keep the external appearance the same, so that the expenditures are less likely to be noticed by the wife. One guy comes to mind - he did several upgrades of his old PC and spent more, each time, on the upgrade than a brand new computer (with warranty) of the same specs just so his wife wouldn't see a new computer under his desk.

Keith

 

[Baby Grand]

My first car cost about what I had to pay for a year of insurance with no collision coverage. It was all I could afford. Little did I know I had enrolled in an installment plan by way of continual high cost repairs. But I loved that car.

 

[rtimgray]

I think KTurner said it best from a practical standpoint - the repair may end up costing more than a given tractor is worth, but the cost to replace the tractor could be greater still.

If you have a tractor that is in good shape with the exception of a worn-out engine, then you could replace the engine with a rebuilt unit and have a pretty solid tractor taht you are aware of the history. If not, and you had to have a tractor, the option would probably be to either buy new (many $$$) or buy an older used unit, that might cost less than the cost of your repair, but it's also an unknown quantity.

While various items may be valued at certain dollar amounts, in truth, they are really only worth what someone else will pay for them. An example of this is shows like the Anitques Roadshow (sp). Sure, they'll tell you this old steamer trunk is worth $5,000, but they can't necessarily hook you up with a buyer. The opposite is also sort of true - if you have no intention of selling, then the amount of money you sink into a piece of equipment isn't quite as relevant, because you're not necessarily doing it to make a profit, but rather investing in a tool that will be used for a number of years (possibly) in whatever endeavor you are pursuing.

I have been guilty of this, but have been pleased with my results so far.

Good luck and take care.

 

[LD1]

Yep, as others said, there is more to value than what one can sell it for.

We have an 8n that we probabally have more in than we could sell it for. Complete restore and complete engine overhaul. If you factor in what was paid for it 20 years ago, plus all that we have done, probabally have north of 4k invested and would be lucky to sell for 3k.

BUT...could we spend 4k elsewhere, and get a like new tractor that for all intents and purposes, has a new engine, and has a 25mph road gear?

We spent about 2k total on the complete overhaul and rebuild. That included new engine parts (crank grind, sleeves, etc), fixing all the sloppy worn out bushings in the steering and front axle, new clutch and PP, new PTO shaft, new 3PH parts to tighten them up, lots of work on sheetmetal, tires and rims, etc.

It is very self satisfying. We could have probabally sold it for 1500-2000 and then bought one that was already (rebuilt/restored) for 3k and been money ahead, but do you really know what you are getting? How much attention was paid to the motor? or did some hack job do it in his back yard that really didnt have a clue?

Again, its all in how you define value. If you define it as the value it has to YOU as a reliable tractor OR as what it would cost to replace, then it is usually worth it to repair. BUT, if you are looking to just buy and flip old iron, and define value as only re-sell, then you will most likely lose money in the long run.

 

[RDrancher]

I bought a 9N to restore with this great plan to use it for parade duty as advertisement for my company. Knowing my wife she'd use it to brush hog our property as well. I have more money invested in new parts then the entire tractor will be worth when its finished. The parts are all still sitting in my shop...right now the tractor is yard art.

One would think that I'd know myself better by now. :laughing:

 

[ctlguy]

I bought a 9N to restore with this great plan to use it for parade duty as advertisement for my company. Knowing my wife she'd use it to brush hog our property as well. I have more money invested in new parts then the entire tractor will be worth when its finished. The parts are all still sitting in my shop...right now the tractor is yard art.

One would think that I'd know myself better by now. :laughing:

That's funny, should have asked your wife. I am sure she would have gladly told you (as mine does) what was going to happen

 

[RDrancher]

That's funny, should have asked your wife. I am sure she would have gladly told you (as mine does) what was going to happen

So, since she was the one that told me I needed a hobby besides work and to "Go get it!" I can blame her? Perfect!

 

[Guesseral]

I bought my ford 841 so I could restore it and have a larger tractor than a Jubilee to use, but half way through the process I found a new tractor that was priced where I couldn't pass it up. The 841 is now complete and the motor blew up on the NAA it also had a crack in the block that I had patched up with JB weld several years be for that never leaked so ther was no reason to rebuild a sub standand block. I bought a rebuild short block and then restored the rest of the tractor (well almost done). Both of these tractors now sit in the garage side by each and they really look nice, but I just don't use either one of them unless I want to pull a wagon of firewood once and a while. For whan I have into them I just couldn't sell them with taking a loss, but I had fun doing it. So I think next year they are going to go to the fairs as antique tractors there now I have a use for them! :thumbsup:

 

[brin]

I always look only at replacement cost ...I know my tractors and I know what it would cost to replace them with new tractors....to be fair it would have to be new replacement since I know my tractors and how they've been maintained...so if I had a major problem...I would know that once I fixed it and spent the $$$$ I would have the same dependable tractor I had before....If I bought used to replace my tractor ....I would not have a real picture of how the tractor had been treated unless I just blindly believed the previous owner..

 

[Guesseral]

I bought my ford 841 so I could restore it and have a larger tractor than a Jubilee to use, but half way through the process I found a new tractor that was priced where I couldn't pass it up. The 841 is now complete, and the motor blew up on the NAA, it had a crack in the block that I had patched up with JB weld several years before that had never leaked but there was no reason to rebuild a sub standand block. I bought a rebuild short block and then restored the rest of the tractor (well almost done). Both of these tractors now sit in the garage side by each and they really look nice, but I just don't use either one of them unless I want to pull a wagon of firewood once and a while. For what I have into them I just couldn't sell them without taking a loss, but I had fun doing it. So I think next year they are going to go to the fairs as antique tractors there now I have a use for them! :thumbsup:

 

[john_bud]

the term "into it" is fairly misleading. A moderate sized 50ish hp tractor from the 60's or 70's that costs $4-8000 will suck down 2.5-4 gal per hour. Figure 200 hours per year and you're looking at 500 to 800 gallons. At $4 per gallon... how long until you have more "into it" just in fuel costs than the replacement cost of the machine?



Personally, I'd rather spend the time to fix what's wrong and then KNOW that it's going to be reliable for decades to come. Unexpected down time is VERY expensive if you have to actually use the machine.


I rebuilt an old TLB and spent "too much". had to rebuild the engine and pretty much everything else too. (ouch!) I figure that I've got north of $10k in it and could have bought a better one for less$$. But even at that, it's costing less to use per hour than a rental would cost. Especially if you include delivery and pick up charges then factor in the the convenience of being able to use it when ever there is a spare moment.

 

[Ken]

So, since she was the one that told me I needed a hobby besides work and to "Go get it!" I can blame her? Perfect!

RDrancher Wives also can become a high maintance items also.

Couple of years ago sold my Kubota and when the man arrived with a trailer he unloaded a WD-45 Allis that looked well used.
After payment for the Kubota he started to get in his truck and I mentioned he had forgot the Allis.
He laughed and said he didn't think so.
2 years of on and off work close to be a good running tractor . When I rebuild the engine.
What wasn't worn or broke needed adjustment.
But Painting will cost me more than what I orginally have in it.
ken

 

[joshuabardwell]

While various items may be valued at certain dollar amounts, in truth, they are really only worth what someone else will pay for them. An example of this is shows like the Anitques Roadshow (sp). Sure, they'll tell you this old steamer trunk is worth $5,000, but they can't necessarily hook you up with a buyer.

I saw that dynamic play out a lot on the show Pawn Stars. The "expert" would come in and say that an item was estimated to go for, let's say $5000 at auction, and the seller would get dollar signs in their eyes. Rick would say, "Well, sure. You put it up for auction and you might get five grand, six months from now, minus the auction house fee, or you might get less than that. Who knows? But I've got two grand in one hundred dollar bills right here." At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much somebody says something is worth if you can't find a buyer who's actually willing to pay that much.

 

[Mechanos]

Also depends on what it is and can a comparable replacement be found. In my case I took on a rather beat-on incomplete JD 955 to put back together and use for a worker. I wanted a solid, hard working, MECHANICAL tractor without all the e-BS and computer this and that. Just can't find anything new (or newer) that isn't loaded down with e-BS. The old 955 is all mechanical... rods, levers and linkages.

 

[john_bud]

Also depends on what it is and can a comparable replacement be found. In my case I took on a rather beat-on incomplete JD 955 to put back together and use for a worker. I wanted a solid, hard working, MECHANICAL tractor without all the e-BS and computer this and that. Just can't find anything new (or newer) that isn't loaded down with e-BS. The old 955 is all mechanical... rods, levers and linkages.

Those are nice, but the old deere 2000, 3000 and 4000 series were even nicer ! But I like properly aged steel!