Barns and shop layouts

Timd · Feb 28, 2002

Shop layout must be a really popular topic...there's now a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.woodbin.com/index.htm/>magazine</A> about it over at woodbin.

Timd

Anonymous Poster · Mar 4, 2002

Clear Span I suppose, meaning no center post for ceiling support. I wanted a flat ceiling for attic storage space above. If I use trusses, don't I loose a lot of that space? On the other hand, a metal building will not provide much attic space at 1:12 pitch, unless I make it 16' tall.

Your prices are very much in line with what I have seen in central Texas.

How much of a problem is condensation?

Thanks for your reply.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 4, 2002

I have not really considered pole-barn construction. I guess mainly because I wanted a finished interior, i.e. paneling or something of the sort. I assumed that if I go with wood construction, I would use the conventional stick built method.

Timd · Mar 6, 2002

A pole barn is the cheapest thing to put up, and can be a simple "tent made out of wood" or something more elaborate. For stick construction, depending on the size you are building, you may be able to do clear span with no interior support posts and a center girder to support the storage floor.

It may help to look at the pictures of trusses in the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.trussnet.com/Resources/Basics/types.cfm/>Truss Resource Center</A>. You can get the storage you are looking for with attic trusses. These are commonly used in attached garages to add the "bonus room" over the garage and are sometimes called garage trusses because of this. They are engineered for the additional dead load of storage. The scissors truss gives you extra headroom to clear a lift. 24' is a real common clear span truss size, and 24' clear span fink and sometimes attic trusses will be in stock or a quick order item in larger home centers.

Condensation is a problem depending on where you live. I'm planning on storing implements and project cars inside the building(s) I'll be putting up, so rust is a concern for me and I'm stick building with wood.

Timd

hwp · Mar 6, 2002

I don't think the type of framing you use (stick or pole barn) will make any difference in terms of rusting, assuming a good vapour barrier is used in either case. However a layer of heavy plastic under the concrete floor will make a big difference. - it will prevent moisture from seeping up through the concrete. This is a major cause of rusting, even if the area is heated.

Knight9 · Mar 7, 2002

Hi Tim,

<font color=blue>A pole barn is the cheapest thing to put up</font color=blue>

I wish this was always true, but in my area it is NOT. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif My quotes indicated that for the same structure with the same finish trim, the pole barn version was going to be about $2000 more than the conventional framing version.

Kevin

hwp · Mar 7, 2002

I think you have it right when you say that no one in your area had experience building pole barns so that drove the price up. It has been a lot of years since I lived on the praries but I don't ever remember seeing a pole barn when I was there or in B.C. They are very popular here in Ontario.

Knight9 · Mar 7, 2002

Hi Howard,

I think it is very dependent on the area. I'm just outside of Edmonton which is not exactly the agricultural heartland of Alberta /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. Once you get out of our area (North or South), there are a lot of pole barns. However, the only ones in our area are simple hay sheds and no one wants to do a garage/workshop type of structure unless I'll pay through the nose. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

If I was in a different area I'm certain it wouldn't be a problem.

Kevin

WVBill · Mar 19, 2002

I built my pole barn about three years ago. It is 40' X 32' and has three "bays" one of which is closed in, and insulated for my shop.

The following link http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/6-101831-snow011902.jpg is a picture of the finished building taken during our one snow event this year...

Golfgar4 · Mar 19, 2002

That's a great looking barn!/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Did you buy the plans from someplace or did you design it all yourself?

rdln · Mar 19, 2002

What's that guy doing on the roof barefoot?

WVBill · Mar 20, 2002

Thanks, golfgar. I started with a set of plans from 84 lumber for a 24' x 32' pole building. Basically, I split the plans down the middle and separated them by the 16' wide middle section which I built taller to accomodate the motor home. I could have kept the single roofline but didn't like "the look" so I bumped the middle roof up.

rdln - That's what I asked him - "What are you doing up there barefoot!!?". He said he was more comfortable/secure that way. The workers are my Father-in law, three of my wife's uncles (one barefoot). We had the annual family reunion at our place and built the barn.

Pks · Apr 16, 2002

Can anyone give me a model number and supplier name for the drains they used in their barn floor? I am having trouble finding exactly what I am looking for: 9x9 metal grate with a strainer that hooks up to PCV pipe. Bayrat and rbargeron
mentioned something like this. So far, all I have found is 100% plastic or made for highways/airports.

rbargeron · Apr 17, 2002

Hi Peter - my floor drains came from a concrete supplies place (they cater to masonry contractors) - no name on them.

They are cast iron and pretty thin - I've broken both grates - looking for something a little stronger myself - will probably make them from plate with holes drilled. I find they don't need much inlet (hole) area. Hope this helps.

rdln · Apr 17, 2002

I was at J.C. Cornillie's last night and thinking of your question, asked the lady about that and she replied nothing that she knows of. Her only answer was the same as I was thinking, is a concrete crock buried under your slab with hole cut through side by you and pvc cemented in. Just like AndyR's project

Or how about a long drain using metal grate available at a lot of steel supply places, there you need to form your own catch basin and pipe in place before pouring.

DavidInNH · Apr 17, 2002

You might want to check code in your area. I'm building a new shop and my builder told me that he can no longer install a floor drain. Seems that one too many yoyo poured oil down one and they changed the laws./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif All they can do now is grade the slab towards the doors.

-david

Pks · Apr 17, 2002

Thanks for the replies.

About sloping the floors instead of installing a drain; ain't that gonna let the oil out the door anyway?

I am waiting for my state's Residential Code book now. But from what I have learned, it is OK to do as long as I don't pour oil into the drain. Of course, if I did that, I'd spoil my own drinking water supply. I'll wait until I see the code book.

Pks · Apr 17, 2002

Speaking of floors: How many concrete mixers would it take to pour a 30ft x 48ft x 4 inch slab? I figure the floor is about 17.7 cubic yards (30x48x.3333/27). I'll add the ratwall calculations once I get the easy part understood.

How heavy is one of those mixers with a full load? I have heard numbers as high as 36 tons (72,000 pounds).

Will a residential black top driveway handle one of these mixers at full load (with all 5 axles lowered etc.)?

RobS · Apr 17, 2002

It'll depend a lot on the mixer but here's what is typically used around here...

Model Name Great Lakes Tri-Drive 5-axle
Model Number 81010.5-185-0-P2
Description 5-axle, eight-wheel drive 10.5 yard mixer with 185" wheelbase, with pusher axle
States IN, MI, NY, WI

No weight listed, I've heard 60,000 pounds. It will also depend on local frost laws and other road conditions /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

mikim · Apr 17, 2002

<font color=blue>30x48x.3333/27</font color=blue>
whew! need a calculator for that - if ya do 30 x 48 /81 you can almost do it in your head - 'course it only works for 4" slabs
mike