20A Shop Outlets for Charging

[sandman2234]

That would be nearly impossible. Imagine trying to bring a 50 year old house up to current codes.heck, some old houses only have 2 , 2prong outlets per room and 1 circuit in kitchen. You’d have to rewire every house by just needing to replace an outlet.

Pretty much where I am at, with my house built in 1964. The insurance company required an inspection, and they hit me for having wire with paper insulation. I had the incoming meter can replaced as required to get an external disconnect, along with the indoor panel. That electrician suggested I add a junction box in the attic for all my wires, and run new wires down to the indoor panel, thereby making it appear that I have re-wired the whole house. Would fool some, but not if they pulled an outlet cover. In the event of a major claim, I can see the insurance company refusing to pay due to the hidden wires, so I elected not to go that route.
It is a pain, but I am in the process of having it done. Time and materials can get expensive.
I changed insurance companies, but that inspection seems to be following me, so they must put it into some sort of database that all insurance companies can access.
David from jax

 

[WinterDeere]

I have re-wired the whole house.

i always wondered how one accomplishes this, without cutting open a lot of walls, given a lot of the original wiring is probably stapled to the sides of the studs in each wall cavity. Are they just leaving the old wiring in place, and pulling new? Drilling new top plate holes, or pushing the old wiring down thru to clear the old holes?

 

[ponytug]

i always wondered how one accomplishes this, without cutting open a lot of walls, given a lot of the original wiring is probably stapled to the sides of the studs in each wall cavity. Are they just leaving the old wiring in place, and pulling new? Drilling new top plate holes, or pushing the old wiring down thru to clear the old holes?

I've been around both, with wires abandoned in the cavities which is always fun for the next person, but with lath and plaster walls almost a given unless you want to start over with the walls. I've also been part of remodels that either ripped the walls open, or just bit the bullet and went down to the studs to be able to do new wiring, new plumbing, new windows, and improving insulation (air leaks, insulation, etc). For me, personally, I have to be pretty motivated to rewire or repipe due to my perceived benefit / hassle ratio, but corroding pipes and unsafe wiring will get me off the fence every time. Stripping walls to the studs is pretty much a labor of love in my book, as the cost can exceed new construction in many areas just due to the fiddly nature of rework. (E.g. what is the plan for out of square walls? Or discovering white oak studs, structural deficiencies that need to be addressed, or rot, ...) I prefer to do the work in unoccupied homes due to the noise, debris, and sustained work needed. Ick. These days, I might be inclined to see what the local AHJ might sign off on in terms of using flexible conduit.

Don't get me wrong, I like historic buildings, but I would never underestimate the cost and labor of love involved, e.g. in a home like yours.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ultrarunner]

Pretty much where I am at, with my house built in 1964. The insurance company required an inspection, and they hit me for having wire with paper insulation. I had the incoming meter can replaced as required to get an external disconnect, along with the indoor panel. That electrician suggested I add a junction box in the attic for all my wires, and run new wires down to the indoor panel, thereby making it appear that I have re-wired the whole house. Would fool some, but not if they pulled an outlet cover. In the event of a major claim, I can see the insurance company refusing to pay due to the hidden wires, so I elected not to go that route.
It is a pain, but I am in the process of having it done. Time and materials can get expensive.
I changed insurance companies, but that inspection seems to be following me, so they must put it into some sort of database that all insurance companies can access.
David from jax

So much for being grandfathered built to code at the time of construction…

Home Inspectors are notorious for calling out code violations and not referencing the age of the home…

In other words it is not a violation and the city has stated such in writing.

If folks want a new house… buy a new house…

Friend was selling a beautiful Queen Ann Victorian and the home inspector reports were comical…

He found the right buyer and all was good…

 

[WinterDeere]

what is the plan for out of square walls?

I had to replace some window boxes and doors in an 1870's Victorian I owned in my 20's, and remember more than one case where there wasn't even one square corner to start measuring from. Always fun going for that 3/32" gap all 'round, when the four corners on a door are all 87 - 93 degrees, and you have no square reference point. Even worse is scribing panels for a window box, where you want all joints damn near invisible.

Or discovering white oak studs...

I found some of floor joist timbers in this house are black walnut.

 

[grsthegreat]

i always wondered how one accomplishes this, without cutting open a lot of walls, given a lot of the original wiring is probably stapled to the sides of the studs in each wall cavity. Are they just leaving the old wiring in place, and pulling new? Drilling new top plate holes, or pushing the old wiring down thru to clear the old holes?

I’ve rewired a heck of a lot of old houses…..and every wire has to be replaced. IT SUCKS.

But it can be done. The hardest to access area are ceiling lights. Holes will have to be made. But patching plaster isn’t that hard. The worst are if they have the old popcorn (asbestos) ceiling treatment. That open up a lot of new issues.

 

[aba4430]

We are in the midst of wiring our new barn and have specified 4 wall outlets plus one for the vertical door opener close to the motor unit. The electrician installed all 20-amp outlets. Two of the five 20-amp outlets are GFCI outlets but all 5 are GFCI protected. I believe code requires that all outlets (15 and 20-amp) in barns be GFCI protected. Not sure about shops but cannot hurt.

 

[grsthegreat]

All outlets in shop except for direct wired (ie not plug and play) lighting is to be gfci protected. It used to be no 240 circuits needed to be gfci protected, but over the past few years even those are requiring it, either from NEC or from building dept. My shop is older, only outlets are gfci.

 

[WinterDeere]

Not sure about shops but cannot hurt.

I suspect most code enforcement officers will interepret it as any space with an exposed concrete floor, as that is the intent of the requirement for basement and garage.

 

[eolesen]

Spoke with the electrician who did our distribution and supply lines, and he agreed that a single 20A GFCI breaker servicing the two 20A outlets would be good enough. It doesn't call for a dedicated breaker per outlet.

 

[sandman2234]

Just to clarify, paper insulation on the wires in my house refers to the paper wrapped around the ground wire, integral with the other wires inside the insulated cover. The current carrying wires have insulation on them, and the 3 wires have a sheath over them, looks like Romex except for the center ground wire being wrapped in a brown paper.
As far as re-wire, since the house is a 2 story, it gets interesting. When we had the alarm system wires run to each door/window, they accessed a lot of them by crawling thru the trusses between the floors. The opening they cut in a closet was about 10x12... so the guy that crawled thru there must have been a little guy. Wish I could find him to do some electrical work!
I will do a lot of removing the baseboards and cutting the sheetrock back an inch or so and running it around the walls that way. When I reach a wall plug, I just go up. Getting to the main breaker might be tricky, haven't found a way thru that block wall that makes sense, as the panel is in the utility room that has access restrictions. I may run a sub panel towards the center of the house and pull all the wires from there rather than trying to get each circuit thru the block wall.
While not proficient at it by any means, my Bride and I did a couple walls in the living room that we stripped wood paneling off. It had been nailed and glued to the sheetrock, and we chose to refinish it rather than buying new sheetrock and having to finish it anyway. On several occasions, my Bride mentioned that sheetrock finishers did not make enough money, no matter how much it was!
David from jax

 

[WinterDeere]

...looks like Romex except for the center ground wire being wrapped in a brown paper.

That's called "Romex". There's always a paper separator between ground and the CCC's.

Older variants of NM-B (the original "NM") had cloth over rubber for the CCC's, with a cloth outer, and then transitioned to rubber CCC's with cloth outer. The invention of PVC changed everything, obviously.