Automatic whole house generator systems.

[RSKY]

We have decided to have a whole house generator installed. The automatic kind that comes on when the power goes off. So I have called the Generac dealer about 3.5 miles from our house. It will be a month before they can come out for a consultation and between six and eight months before I can get a generator. Cost for an 18kw, 20kw, or 22kw system will be roughly between $8,000 to $10,000.

In the 2009 ice storm we made do with a 4000w portable. We had two fridges, one freezer, one TV and cable box, a few lights, and one small oil filled heater running off it. Not all ran at the same time. We rotated the utility room fridge and freezer and didn't run everything at one time. Heated the house with two sets of gas logs and used the electric heater only at night in the hallway near the bedrooms. The last two weeks we added a small 2000w that took some of the load. I got a Gencor 10,000w a few years ago for the electric start because my wife could not pull start the others. We have used it twice this winter. Once after the tornado, the other last week during a small ice/snow event.

I have several problems that must be solved. If something happened to me my wife would have a very hard time dragging the generator up to the house from the shop. She would also have a hard time pulling the fridges and freezers out and connecting them. Another problem is all the cords strung out all over the house. Another is the fact that when we need a generator it is usually cold as a well diggers rear end. And we are both 67 and are looking to be prepared for our older years. Also we usually have family come here because of our natural gas logs and water heater. There are several more smaller issues but those are the main ones.

I thought about just having a transfer switch installed and putting the Gencor in a semi-permanent location within a box like enclosure. Then memories of setting an alarm for every four hours to fill the little 4000w up with gas make me think that might not be such a good idea. Even though the 10,000 will run for over six.

I am looking at Generac because there are several locals selling and servicing the units. Anybody have any negative experience with them?

RSKY

 

[Will S]

Generac whole house generators are fine. If I had NG or propane here, I would have bought one, but with already having fuel oil, and being able to draw from it, I went with diesel.
I don't know if its ok to link to a non-competitive forum, so I won't post it, but if you look for the zillerstore forum, you'll find answers to just about every question you might have, regarding Generac gens.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Not trying to pick a fight but I’d suggest doing at least some of your research on forums other than a Generac Premier Dealer’s forum.

Find out what the rest of the industry has to say then make your decision.

 

[dragoneggs]

Hey Rsky, good to hear from you... been awhile. I have been tempted to upgrade to a whole house genny several times over the past decade or so, but continue to 'survive' with a 3K Honda wired into a mechanical interlock on the service panel. Makes it pretty simple to switch over.

I made explicit instructions for the better half to start and switch along with what breakers to throw back on because the power seems to go out mostly when I am on a business trip.

The Honda generator has an electric (key) start. The generator is always plugged into a Battery Tender so no worries about the onboard battery going dead before an outage.

1. Turn all breakers off
2. Switch the interlock on the service panel to gen
3. Pull choke
4. Key start
5. Turn on prescribed breakers

We get about 10 hrs before refilling and we have 10+ gallons of gas hanging out nearby the generator (in a garden shed built in to the side of the house). No need to run cords, just open the shed door to turn on and allow venting.

We don't lose power often enough and for long enough these days that I don't mind the 'roughing it' mode. Still have TV, heat, fridge/freezer, and any light we need. Well pump is out of commission but we are prepped for that.

I'm sure it would be so convenient to have whole house generator power but honestly we just don't need it for the number of times/duration of outages.

My disposable income at my 60+ age is going toward more 'fun' stuff that we would use more regularly vs. dumping the money into a system that makes power outages sort of a non issue.

Obviously lots of ways to kill the beast. Good luck with your install! Just crazy these days how long it takes to get any contractor work to get scheduled and completed.

 

[seville009]

I have a Generac 18kw whole house generator that runs on propane. Have the cold weather package on it (warms the oil and battery below 50 I think); I'm in the northeast


installed around 2006; cost was about $6,000 I think.

No issues other than the built in trickle charger went whacko one year and drained the battery.

Was tired of wheeling out a 12kw "portable" Yamaha gasoline generator to start up only to have the power come back on ten minutes after I got everything hooked up and running


the generic runs the entire house; all circuits.

it automatically starts and runs once a week for about ten minutes.


Have it tied into my two 1,000 gallon propane tanks.

It's nice laying in bed when the power goes out and I hear it fire up.....

 

[Wakey]

I have the Generac 22KW on propane. I went a step up with a 500 gallon tank which I had them bury.

It’s been great. The controller failed (in warranty) but I am pleased otherwise. I keep my freezer stocked and knowing that an outage won’t ruin my meats and prepared foods is worth the cost. Yeah, not really It is extremely convenient though.

 

[bcs001]

We have decided to have a whole house generator installed. The automatic kind that comes on when the power goes off.

I am looking at Generac because there are several locals selling and servicing the units. Anybody have any negative experience with them?

RSKY

I'm also looking to do the same at my place. Currently running a 12Kw portable Duromax backfeeding the main panel from a sub panel in the garage. It runs most of the house including 3 refrigerator/freezers, well pump and furnace blower with the exception of A/C & Heat Pump units and I can use Cooktop or Oven but not both at the same time. My plan is go with something between 20Kw - 24Kw.

I've only started researching brands but not real confident about Generac reliability based on reviews which I know have to be taken with a grain of salt. Some of the bad reviews could be operator or installation errors but some do appear to be legitimate concerns. Dealer support and distance from the install could be something to consider depending on how important that is to you. In my case I'll handling all maintenance and if something major comes up I cant handle there are skilled electricians who can deal with it. That just leaves warranty issues that could be a problem, but for me personally, I wouldn't choose an "inferior" brand just based on that one criteria.

It will be interesting to hear others experiences and opinions on the various brands and fuel types. I'll be using propane in my installation.

 

[orezok]

Considering that Generac allegedly has a 70% market share, it probably has 70% of the online complaints. If you have a tiny market share, your complaints will also be tiny.

Ponder that!

 

[kcflhrc]

Considering that Generac allegedly has a 70% market share, it probably has 70% of the online complaints. If you have a tiny market share, your complaints will also be tiny.

Ponder that!

Very true, and think about all the happy customer's that don't leave reviews. Around here you can buy the Generac 22KW with the 200 amp transfer switch for roughly $5k. So to the OP they are getting you for $3k to $5k for installation. I would buy it myself and then find a local electrician to do it on the side for say maybe $1k

 

[ericm979]

When we're running on generator I turn the generator off at night. Even in the summer the fridge and freezer stay cold enough overnight without power. When I get a whole house generator I'll be turning it off at night too.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The Gencor sounds like it would fit your needs if you moved it to a permanent location, installed a tri-fuel carburetor, and plumbed it to the NG supply. I have a 7000/6000w electric start propane unit that is always wired to the transfer switch and is always on a battery tender. Starting only requires turning on the propane valve, hitting the button, and flipping the transfer switch to generator.

One of your problems is not having a transfer switch. You could use the breaker panel to manage load instead of stringing extension cords everywhere. I assume the auto generator would also have an auto transfer switch? At the sizes you are talking, you might still need to do some load management.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Very true, and think about all the happy customer's that don't leave reviews. Around here you can buy the Generac 22KW with the 200 amp transfer switch for roughly $5k. So to the OP they are getting you for $3k to $5k for installation. I would buy it myself and then find a local electrician to do it on the side for say maybe $1k

I think that's pretty reasonable. He is looking at a slab to mount the generator, separate trenching for electrical and NG, wiring and piping materials cost, plus electrician and plumber time. He might have to spring for a NG regulator with a larger orifice too.

 

[Fxfymn413]

I have a 16Kw propane powered Generac that we installed over 20 years ago. It does have an auto transfer switch, but it utilizes a sub-panel so the number of circuits it powers up are limited. It powers the well, wood stove, downstairs heat, freezers and fridges, and several light circuits. Considering that you will not use it very often IMO there is no reason to go to the expense of trying to run the whole house with it and we have never wished for additional circuits.

I do have a back up plan for those times when it is very hot out. We can use our RV powered by the Honda EU-200is we carry with us on trips to run the A/C. But we have never needed to do that as the basement stays cool for at least a couple of days.

I recently bought a 14Kw for our second home and it uses the transfer switch that goes between the meter and the panel so it powers up any and all circuits and uses power management modules to control the load. I think this is a superior system. I had to keep my eye on the web site for months until they came in and right after I ordered mine they were back in the out of stock mode.

I self installed and the cost of the generator was around $4K plus another $400 or so for installation items.

If you can try to set the generator as far from the house as you practically can. It will cost you more to install, but once installed the noise will be almost impossible to hear.

One other factor to consider when selecting the generator's output is the cost of installation. Higher outputs require bigger fuel line and heavier wire gauges so it is prudent to only get what you need, not what you want.

 

[5030]

I have a Generac 30 KW diesel powered and it's been without fault for over 10 years now. I recommend them.

 

[bcs001]

Considering that Generac allegedly has a 70% market share, it probably has 70% of the online complaints. If you have a tiny market share, your complaints will also be tiny.

That's a very fair statement and I am seriously considering Generac for my equipment but just because the % of market share is high and the # of good and bad reviews are equally high as compared to a less popular brand, an engine failure is an engine failure. I don't necessarily compare the # of complaints but rather the types of failures described. Many are due to poor installation and maintenance but when there is a credible report of a problem, no matter how much market share it has, it should be taken into consideration. I think decisions based on popularity of a particular item isn't always the best choice. And to reiterate, I may very well choose Generac but there does seem to be credible reports of air cooled engine issues.

 

[jaydee325]

September 2021 install by a SW Michigan Generac Dealer:

Generac 22KW, 200A switch, pad, and battery: $6140.94 (includes 6% MI sales tax)

Installation: $2200 (included labor, cable, conduit and aggregate to support the pad and $150 electrical permit)

Total: $8,340.94

Plus about $500 to bury LP line from existing LP tank to generator. This included hand digging to bury the line due to proximity to other buried utilities.

This install was super convenient and involved only 3 phone calls on my part. One to schedule a dealer rep to come out and provide an estimate and one call to schedule and one call to schedule LP install. Everyone showed up on time and did top notch work.

At the time of the install (Sept 2021), the techs commented that they were scheduled out into 2022 for installs and some were spring of 2022 due to unavailability of generator units.

 

[5030]

I quit putting much credence in online reviews on anything. It seems to me that most are a bit jilted. I've had zero issues with my Generac diesel standby and it's always there if I need it. I bet we have the only place on the road that has one. Every time we have a utility failure, all you can hear is the din of those cheap box store genny's screaming along at 3600 rpm. The noise is irritating. It goes about it's business, quietly and efficiently and only requires regular maintenance just like any engine does. it's plumbed into my 500 gallon bulk tank so plenty of fuel available at all times.

 

[TheMan419]

The Gencor sounds like it would fit your needs if you moved it to a permanent location, installed a tri-fuel carburetor, and plumbed it to the NG supply. I have a 7000/6000w electric start propane unit that is always wired to the transfer switch and is always on a battery tender. Starting only requires turning on the propane valve, hitting the button, and flipping the transfer switch to generator.

One of your problems is not having a transfer switch. You could use the breaker panel to manage load instead of stringing extension cords everywhere. I assume the auto generator would also have an auto transfer switch? At the sizes you are talking, you might still need to do some load management.

Yep, we have almost this set up. We do not leave the generator hooked to the transfer switch. Have to wheel it into position, plug it in and fire it up. Not that huge of a deal. The wheel part is over concrete and under cover so not snow covered or icy. We run on gasoline but the next one will be a tri-fuel or have a tri-fuel carb installed. Also would have to get NG supply run out to the right spot.

Not having a transfer switch would make the whole thing really a lot of work. Having that wired makes it so simple.

 

[ponytug]

Like @RSKY, we needed to do something that was more automatic, and doable by my spouse. Hauling extension cords around and moving refrigerators is something that she can do, but for her the physics aren't in her favor.

We went the other way, and added batteries to our solar. January 1st, our solar is a measly 3-6kWh/day, but we can make it a week or ten days on that, using whatever is in the batteries when the power fails. On idle, the house uses 0.3-0.5kW, but with a little trimming we can get it down to 0.1kW. From March to October, we could probably be out indefinitely.

For us, adding a transfer switch alone was $6-8k, due to the need to upgrade the main panel, meter, and breakers, but definitely a YMMV item. The panel was 45+ years old.

My rather elderly neighbor had a 22kW Generac put in last year. The local installer wasn't very good, and I went over to help out. I was impressed at the depth of controls that Generac is putting in on the new units. There are a few requirements (gas line size, layout, regulators, and specialty cable) that you need to be aware of, but beyond that, I would say that there are good reasons why Generac has that large of a market share. The next level up installer came from 100 miles away several times until the generator worked as specified, and needed. Personally, I would be choosing a generator by the quality of the local service agent. That is the person that will be coming to fix your generator after the hurricane/earthquake/tornado/ice storm.

As far as reliability goes, a generator has all the complexity of a car engine, plus the AC generator and control electronics. It ain't simple, and it sure isn't an install it and forget it. No matter who makes it, it will require TLC. If you need it to work, make sure it gets exercised regularly, that you service it before your high need season, and don't forget to check inside regularly to make sure that your local mice (bees, wasps, whatever) aren't having a housewarming party. I neglected to run one of mine for six months or so, and couldn't get it started, but mercifully it turned out to be some bad gas. Easy fix. I do stock filters, oil, and voltage regulators for my generators, just in case.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

Not having a transfer switch would make the whole thing really a lot of work. Having that wired makes it so simple.

not really, buying a interlock kit, and marking the breakers, your talking the difference of maybe a minute. it comes down to how often you expect to do this process