ATV Trailer build

   / ATV Trailer build #21  
Surplus Center has some: Surplus Center

Several on eBay.

Take your hub and wheel to a ATV/UTV Dealer or a Golf Car Dealer, they can tell you what size it is.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Those at surplus center show 4 on 4. I finally found a metric ruler in the kitchen, and the hub I have that fits the wheel, measures 4 on 130mm or about 5.1" The 4 on 4 is a 101mm hub, and those are all over the place. Besides I prefer hubs with lug studs, instead of bolts, lots easier to mount wheels.

I am going into town tomorrow morning and am going to see what I can find out. I see some adapters that adapt from 130mm to 100mm. Very close but I would not risk it mail order. Besides they are pricey at about $80 a pair. I can find 130 hubs, but none with bearings in them. They are all for splined shafts, which is of no help.
 
   / ATV Trailer build #23  
Most of those lug bolts are 1/2-20, you could get cheap hubs and longer grade 8 bolts, and run the through the hubs backwards to use regular nuts. Also, if you poke around some of the 4-on-4 hubs out there are set up with studs, and usually not for much more. Check boat sites as well as trailer parts sites, sometimes the boat guys are cheaper.

If you do get "bolt" hubs, nothing says you have to use the 4" holes...you might have enough meat on the metal of the casting to drill 29/64 and tap, offset from the existing holes, at the spacing you need (it will be real close to edge though, and through the thinner part of the hub casting, so not sure how well it would hold up).

If you have a lathe, then turning out the center of your other hubs should be very doable, and it would allow you to mark the 4" circle for the other hubs in the same setup.

Or you could turn out the splines enough to tap in a bronze bushing on each end to run on a solid axle. Crossdrill the axles between where the bushings would ride, and then end drill to meet it. Tap it 1/4-28NF and put in a zerk and those bushings will last you a good long while. A couple of shaft collars could keep the wheels in place. Or if you prefer using cotter pins, tap the shell of the hub, and dill through the inner spline tube in at least one spot, and let the hub fill with grease.

If you feel up to welding, turn out the entire spline tube enough for a larger tube sized to hold whatever bearing you want to run?

I see the thing looks like it made up of 3 pieces. The flat plate, the flanged and domed plate, and the spline tube. How about turning out the spline tube, drilling out the spot welds*, and drilling the flat plate 4-on-4?

* Or just cut everything that sticks out with a cut-off wheel in the grinder.
 
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   / ATV Trailer build #24  
Not sure if it helps at all, but I see that some of the original beetles used 4-on-130 hubs (brake drums with bearings)...how good is your local junkyard?
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Non existent.

On a good note I think I figured out how to do what I need. I am going to make/find/buy a 6x3/16" steel circle. The bolt holes for both the 4x130 and 4x4 will be drilled, offset from each other. and the center bored out 2.5" for the bearing hub. I will use bolts/nuts to bolt the plate to the wheels, and use the studs and lug nuts for the 4x4 hubs to bolt it to the hub.

Not 100% sure how I will do this, but I have ideas. A local steel shop gave me the idea, because they had square plates made similar, but after talking to them I found out they were done CNC and it would be a $100 fee just for setup, soooo I will have to do it manually, somehow.
 
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  • Thread Starter
#26  
OK found a seller on Ebay that sells 6" circles, but his are 1/4" (stronger is better) that they advertise cutting any size shape holes you want. Price for the plate is $10 plus 5 shipping, so I will see how much the hole cutting work is. If reasonable this might be my way out. If not I can order the plates, and do my own cutting.

Then I can order some hubs and spindles and get this show on the road.
 
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   / ATV Trailer build #27  
If that doesn't pan out, you could use 4-1/2" flat bar, too. Just have to knock the corners off. 18" of it might be cheaper to get than disks.

Bolt Circle Adapter.PNG

You might even be able to get away with using 4", but the 130mm circle would be right out at the corners, so you'd have to weld the bolts on, and there isn't a lot of room for the 4-on-4 circle and still be able to get a wrench on a nut. I'd only be tempted by that if I had the 4" bar on hand, I think.
 
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   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#28  
OK I heard back from the folks at Sirius Steel off Ebay. Still working out details, but it looks like $61.50 for the pair. That would look similar your drawing, except it is a 6" diam round plate, .250" thick and the 4 hole sets will be offset from each other, with more than enough steel to hold everything.

I just ordered the hub and spindle sets from Amazon Amazon.com: Pair of 4-Bolt On 4 Inch Hub Assembly - Includes (2) 1 Inch Straight Spindles & Bearings: Automotive for $75 shipped. So that is set.

Making progress. I will have to wait and see how the details on the plates work out. One thing I thought of, was the hub bolts will ALMOST fit inside the wheel opening. I think it would require about a half circle for each lug bolt to clear. Would it hold up to just put heavy washers over the side opposite the hub, against the wheel, then lug nut it? It would not shift up or down since there is no where to go, and since it's not a drive wheel, it shouldn't spin inside the wheel either. Is that a dumb idea? Why?

Also, if I do go the plate route, if I get 1/2 (.500") diameter holes in it for the hub studs, the studs will pass through, correct? I never measured wheel holes, but my 1/2" bolts all measure .490" diameter. Does that sound right?
 
   / ATV Trailer build #29  
Can't answer you on the studs from personal experience, since I have only replaced whole hubs/drums/disks, but I'm sure the drill size for studs is listed out there somewhere on the 'net...ah, here we go:

Looks like you have your choice of knurl sizes in 1/2-20 studs. Another link I read says drill, ream or bore .002-.007 under the knurl size.
Wheel Studs - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors
They also list "thread in" style, where you drill and thread your flange for the same thread as the nuts, then run them in tight (and I'm guessing, thread lock them).

I bet your adapterless direct-to-hub idea with notches and washers will work just fine.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#30  
Can't answer you on the studs from personal experience, since I have only replaced whole hubs/drums/disks, but I'm sure the drill size for studs is listed out there somewhere on the 'net...ah, here we go:

Looks like you have your choice of knurl sizes in 1/2-20 studs. Another link I read says drill, ream or bore .002-.007 under the knurl size.
Wheel Studs - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors
They also list "thread in" style, where you drill and thread your flange for the same thread as the nuts, then run them in tight (and I'm guessing, thread lock them).

I bet your adapterless direct-to-hub idea with notches and washers will work just fine.


This is what I am hoping for. Looks like Feb 2 is the delivery date, so I will test it out then. Would be nice if the simplest and cheapest idea worked. I just wish I could have located something locally. One trailer shop had the hubs and bearings. Hub $17, but spindle had to ordered and it was $24. I said WHAT? I see them all day at 12-14. I prefer to buy from local shops here, and drive home with it in hand, but when it's a 30 mile drive (one way) and they say, "I can order it", I go online myself.

When I built my heavy duty utility trailer it had mobile home axles. I soon switched to a standard axle and ordered it all from the same place mentioned above, axle, springs, hubs, wheels and tires.

I try to keep the money spread evenly.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#31  
If this idea works, I will keep my eyes open in the future for a good deal on 4 on 4 wheels and tires.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#32  
OK a little more progress has happened and will try to keep this thread updated. First picture, there are several changes. First the frame is standing on end and you can see the trailer tongue welded into place. You can also see the struts that the spindles will be welded onto. At the top of them is where I welded the "axle" for the pivot point for the trailer tongue, when in dump mode.

ATV%20trailer14_zpsis1ajk1m.jpg


I racked my brain over and over again on different ways to accomplish the "dump" feature and I finally decided on the K.I.S.S. method (keep it simple stupid). The trailer bed simply pivots on the tires themselves, with the tongue rotating right above the spindles. I also canned the idea of using the quad's suspension. It just wasn't going to be feasible. I love a trailer with a soft enough suspension to not bounce all over, but if I kept going like I was, it would outweigh my quad. LOL

I think I said earlier my sticks of tubing I bought were 31ft, I was wrong, they were 21. The used stuff is 31.

That said, I so efficiently used up my 2 sticks of the 1 3/8 tubing, I had to splice 2 pieces together to make a piece long enough for the tongue "axle". On that topic I also racked my brain a bit and came up with the existing plan. I made a piece long enough to got from strut to strut, and made the 1 7/8 tubing (the black pipe in the picture) several inches shorter. This gave me enough room to slide the tongue piece (the horizontal part of the "T" in the picture) from side to side and allow me to weld the "axle" onto the frame.

Here's a better angle I think.

ATV%20trailer10_zpsb6jtrcbj.jpg


Here's a close up of my weld. Don't be too critical. It usually isn't pretty, but I tend to go overboard. One thing I do do, is make sure to get penetration. A couple times I burned all the way through and had to patch it up. I can see the puddle pretty well most of the time and it is usually on the verge of burinig through.

ATV%20trailer15_zps3vvkhcll.jpg


On the ends, where I left the extra play, I did not want the tongue to slide back and forth, so I cut a narrow section of the 1 7/8" tubing and cut it in half, like lemon slices. I placed one of the halves on each end of the tongue axle up against the rotating part of the tongue. I then tacked it in place to the axle to keep everything centered. Kinda hard to tell in that shot.

Here's the frame sitting as it will when the tires are on. You can see the tongue sticking out the other end. It extends 3 feet from the main frame. You will also note I added the upper horizontal braces to the uprights. The only thing left on the upper frame is 1/2" square tubing that will be added as bracing for the sheet metal bed, and also to build the end door frames, also out if 1/2" sq tubing.

ATV%20trailer13_zpshp7nfri6.jpg


Here's the latch for the trailer in tow position. This will keep the bed down. The screw will go through, but I am not concerned with it at this moment because the hole need to be opened up a bit anyway for the latch pin I will use.

ATV%20trailer12_zpsvg5g4iha.jpg


Here you can see the tongue with the latch welded on it. It's also a good shot of the struts for the spindles. The struts are 6" long for reference. I will add fore and aft bracing to that center strut. I also need to add side bracing to the tongue. Not 100% sure it's needed, but I do not want anything getting tweaked if I take it off road. For that I will use some 1x2 .090 tubing that I have laying around.

ATV%20trailer10_zpsb6jtrcbj.jpg


OK that's it for now. I will finish up the last few details until the hubs and spindles arrive and then I can complete the welding, and move on to sanding and painting. I am thinking orange on the frame, to go with my Husqvarna tractor, and leave the sheet metal bare galvanized. I might paint it with some sort of silver paint. but not sure.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#33  
I also plan on adding a zerk fitting to the rotating porting of the tongue to keep down the squeaks. That is why I placed those half circles on the bottom side of the tongue axle, to keep most of the grease from falling out to the ground.

If I had been smart I would have drilled and tapped it BEFORE putting it in place. Now there will be shavings in there, duh!
 
   / ATV Trailer build #34  
It is looking good :thumbsup:
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#35  
I don't have a tubing notcher, but I do them by hand, sort of, with my 4" angle grinder. On small stuff I sometimes butt weld, but all my major tubes are either mitered or hand notched. This round tubing is something else to deal with. I like the look but it is a lot more work.

I started a thread about using the used pipe this company sells, to make a larger flatbed trailer for the road (which the good folks here talked me out of, thankfully). It is just too hard to keep this stuff square for me to think of a job that big. I am glad I did this project, as it taught me a lesson or two.

For finish work, I plan on adding a socket at the top of each corner to add wire fences, later, if desired, to pile extra brush on. Most likely I won't need that though.

I PLAN on using 14ga galvanized steel for the liner. I haven't checked with the sheet metal shop for pricing yet either. Would 16ga hold up you think, or should I stick with 14? I could end up tossing split firewood into this thing, maybe even unsplit. Not sure about the unsplit, cause that would most likely come from my neighbors property. He uses me to cull his dead trees for him, and I get the free firewood. That's about 1.5 miles behind me and my quad is only a 250 so at this point I am not sure how well it will haul a load of wood up and down the hills. Might have to get a bigger quad :). Of course my wife will tell me to just use the truck :(. What's the fun in that?
 
   / ATV Trailer build #36  
I PLAN on using 14ga galvanized steel for the liner. I haven't checked with the sheet metal shop for pricing yet either. Would 16ga hold up you think, or should I stick with 14? I could end up tossing split firewood into this thing, maybe even unsplit. Not sure about the unsplit, cause that would most likely come from my neighbors property. He uses me to cull his dead trees for him, and I get the free firewood. That's about 1.5 miles behind me and my quad is only a 250 so at this point I am not sure how well it will haul a load of wood up and down the hills. Might have to get a bigger quad :). Of course my wife will tell me to just use the truck :(. What's the fun in that?

....or pull with the tractor.

That is one heavy trailer you are making. If you decide to pull this with an ATV, you are going to need 4WD,
and a lot more weight than a 250 unit will have.

As for the sheet metal, this photo is of the 18ga (.052") I used for my flatbed deck. It is 4x8 and weighs 69#. Cost
is about $80. If you go with 16ga, that is 85#, and more $. What you use really depends on the support
spacing, and what kind of abuse it will get. 16ga is quite stiff.
 

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   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#37  
Well I have not weighed it, but I have picked up the whole frame, and I am guessing it's still under 100lbs. Not by much, but will be curious to find out when done. My little 250 is a 5spd and has good power, but I wouldn't really take the trailer "off roading" with the 250. That would be asking for trouble. I will give it a test run, for sure when it's complete.

I have pulled my log spliter with the quad, and it had zero issues. Time will tell. I hope you're wrong though. :)
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#38  
Did some more today. I got the side braces for the tongue welded up. I also welded the 1/" sq vertical supports for the sheet metal, but no pics of that. The sheet metal braces are in line with the floor braces. There are 4 total.

Here is a front shot of the trailer in tilt mode (without tires)

ATV%20trailer19_zpsq3yycsas.jpg


And from the side while tilting. The silver jack stands are under the tongue axle.

ATV%20trailer18_zpsu5jqvjcj.jpg


The trailer is sitting pretty close to what actual height will be.

So I will start now, on grinding and sanding, prep for paint. I am not going to paint anything until I get the hubs/spindles. I want to mount the spindles before painting because I am uncertain how I will need to brace them and don't want to have to redo my paint. The color scheme will be the tongue and tongue axle, gloss black and the rest orange to match my splitter and mower.

Pulling that trailer empty will be one thing, but loaded with firewood will be another. Time to start working on the bigger quad :).
 
   / ATV Trailer build #39  
What welding wire you using? I'd go with 16 ga for the bed, galvanized if it's in the budget, then what about the head board and tail gate, should be removable, might want to re-check the blue prints on this.
 
   / ATV Trailer build
  • Thread Starter
#40  
Lincoln flux core wire, .035". I have every intention of making front and rear gates removable, and fairly light. They will be framed with 1/2" sq tubing, I think is .065" wall. Take a look at the DR Versa trailer Versa Trailer: 1/2 Ton Commercial Grade Utility Trailer | DR Power Equipment and you'll see what I am after. I am basically doing a knock off of theirs. Mine is a little stronger, I think, but I do not know what thickness their bed tubing is.

I have a scale in my shop, I think it goes to 100lbs but not sure. If it does I will hoist the frame up and see what it weighs. That will be frame only, since the tires, wheels, and sheet metal will be added. I am going to take a wild guess for a FINISHED weight of 200lbs. Time will tell. I believe you are right, the 16ga will be best.

This afternoon, I took the sander/grinder to the joints to clean up my sloppy welds and get it ready for sanding. My hubs are due to arrive Feb 2, so it will be after that. I will get the spindles mounted before final sanding and painting.
 

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