Attaching pto implements

[ptsg]

Read a bunch of similar posts.
Tried it. Doesn't turn.
The shaft turns only about half an inch and when I let go off it, it turns back the same half inch, like spring loaded. Not enough time and hard to hold with one hand while trying to pull back the collar and push the implement side on. Impossible with just 2 hands.

I wish there was a way to make the pto go into "neutral" so I could spin it by hand.

Tractor off, in neutral, level ground and all that. Nothing seems to work. If the implement side can be turned, I rotate its pto shaft, most you can't turn, too difficult. So then I'm stuck playing with the pto switch and turning the main shaft until the implement side lines up and can be pushed on.
This is same regardless if button or collar.
It's extremely aggravating. The shaft is greased up and slippery, plus you dont have much room to get close to it with the shield in the way and all the arms.

I wish they would design a simpler and easier way to hook things up to the pto. It's a major pia for me every time. I dread switching out the implements

Your tractor uses a wet clutch for the PTO with a spring loaded brake. Once the PTO is off, the spring loaded brake kicks in and keeps the PTO from spinning. It will still turn half a turn or so by hand by that's it.

For some reason, they removed the 2nd PTO speed for the US models, meaning it's always in gear. While the EU and AU models get 2 PTO speeds with a Neutral in between that lets the PTO shaft free spin at all times.

 

[Cycledude]

I haven’t needed to be able to turn the PTO shaft on my LS tractor in order to hookup a PTO but after reading so many folks saying they could turn theirs I went out to the shop to try it, mine won’t turn, you can feel the normal slop in the gears but you definitely can’t turn it far enough to make it easier to hookup a PTO shaft.

I’m going to start paying a little more attention to that possibly when walking through tractors sitting on lots.

My 8N Ford PTO is very easy to turn by hand and there is no guard in the way to make it a little more difficult.

 

[tradosaurus]

After I hook my rotary cutter to the quick hitch I then make sure the shaft of the rotary cutter is about level with the PTO of the tractor.
I then place the end of the shaft on the PTO (without pulling back on the "ears" of the shaft) until it just slips on.
Then I pull the ears back on the shaft and slide it the rest of the way on the PTO until it clicks.

 

[grsthegreat]

Read a bunch of similar posts.
Tried it. Doesn't turn.
The shaft turns only about half an inch and when I let go off it, it turns back the same half inch, like spring loaded. Not enough time and hard to hold with one hand while trying to pull back the collar and push the implement side on. Impossible with just 2 hands.

I wish there was a way to make the pto go into "neutral" so I could spin it by hand.

Tractor off, in neutral, level ground and all that. Nothing seems to work. If the implement side can be turned, I rotate its pto shaft, most you can't turn, too difficult. So then I'm stuck playing with the pto switch and turning the main shaft until the implement side lines up and can be pushed on.
This is same regardless if button or collar.
It's extremely aggravating. The shaft is greased up and slippery, plus you dont have much room to get close to it with the shield in the way and all the arms.

I wish they would design a simpler and easier way to hook things up to the pto. It's a major pia for me every time. I dread switching out the implemen

Read a bunch of similar posts.
Tried it. Doesn't turn.
The shaft turns only about half an inch and when I let go off it, it turns back the same half inch, like spring loaded. Not enough time and hard to hold with one hand while trying to pull back the collar and push the implement side on. Impossible with just 2 hands.

I wish there was a way to make the pto go into "neutral" so I could spin it by hand.

Tractor off, in neutral, level ground and all that. Nothing seems to work. If the implement side can be turned, I rotate its pto shaft, most you can't turn, too difficult. So then I'm stuck playing with the pto switch and turning the main shaft until the implement side lines up and can be pushed on.
This is same regardless if button or collar.
It's extremely aggravating. The shaft is greased up and slippery, plus you dont have much room to get close to it with the shield in the way and all the arms.

I wish they would design a simpler and easier way to hook things up to the pto. It's a major pia for me every time. I dread switching out the implements

Recheck post #19, use an overrunning clutch. Cheap device that will solve all your issues. They carry them on amazon, tractor supply, etc.

 

[Santa Craig Cringle]

Shut off the tractor. You then should be able to rotate the PTO shaft to line up.

I thought I was the only one to shut off the tractor when connecting the PTO. I do it for safety purposes. I could just disengage the PTO but why risk it?

 

[BackRoad]

Funny how I think of this thread everytime I hook up an implement now...

 

[CalG]

Every tractor I ever operated, at least modern ones, all have pto stubs that will turn at least 1/4 turn freewheel to align the splines. Both my Kubota's turn a full 1/2 turn, but in reality, 1/4 turn should be enough. They all freewheel like that today.

Being a 6 spline,

360 divided by 6 = 60 degrees.
divided by 2=30 degrees.. and one spline can never be more than 1/2 off from mating.

Yep! 30 degrees +/- should cover it. ;-)

 

[WinterDeere]

Being a 6 spline,

360 divided by 6 = 60 degrees.
divided by 2=30 degrees.. and one spline can never be more than 1/2 off from mating.

Yep! 30 degrees +/- should cover it. ;-)

It's so hard to argue with basic arithmetic.

 

[shooterdon]

It's so hard to argue with basic arithmetic.

Math is racist….didn’t you get the memo?

 

[tradosaurus]

Recheck post #19, use an overriding clutch. Cheap device that will solve all your issues. They carry them on amazon, tractor supply, etc.

Since no one else will explain it, for those, like myself, who have no clue what an overriding clutch is and why you need it, this video explains it.

Sounds like its only needed for older tractors that have a clutch that when pushed in doesn't disengage the PTO, where having a rotary cutter can still be engaged and push the tractor forward.
Also the overriding clutch will extend the PTO shaft which may cause issue with extra length.

 

[WinterDeere]

Sounds like its only needed for older tractors that have a clutch that when pushed in doesn't disengage the PTO, where having a rotary cutter can still be engaged and push the tractor forward.

That's the original intent, indeed. But folks have found many other uses for them, over the years.

Also the overriding clutch will extend the PTO shaft which may cause issue with extra length.

In the case of adding a quick hitch to an existing tractor/implement pairing, this can have the advantage of extending the driveshaft by an amount similar to that by which the quick hitch extends the link arms. So it works out nicely, in such cases.

 

[LouNY]

Since no one else will explain it, for those, like myself, who have no clue what an overriding clutch is and why you need it, this video explains it.

Sounds like its only needed for older tractors that have a clutch that when pushed in doesn't disengage the PTO, where having a rotary cutter can still be engaged and push the tractor forward.
Also the overriding clutch will extend the PTO shaft which may cause issue with extra length.

On more modern tractors an over riding clutch will save your pto brake. Any implement with any rotating mass puts a tremendous strain and wear on the pto's internal brake. An over riding clutch eliminates that issue. And when you consider that many tractors will require splitting or at least an upper transmission case removal to access and replace.

 

[5030]

Since no one else will explain it, for those, like myself, who have no clue what an overriding clutch is and why you need it, this video explains it.

Sounds like its only needed for older tractors that have a clutch that when pushed in doesn't disengage the PTO, where having a rotary cutter can still be engaged and push the tractor forward.
Also the overriding clutch will extend the PTO shaft which may cause issue with extra length.

Actually, any tractor with a clutch brake can benefit from an over riding clutch especially when using implements that will drive the pto when freewheeling like a shreder for instance. The clutch brake is designed to 'hold' the pto stub stationary when the pto isn't engaged but it's nit designed to hold it against a freewheeling implement and will fail more quickly is an over riding clutch brake is not installed.

Most large implements like hay mowers have them already in the driveline and some shredders do as well. All depends on the maker of the implement and how much inertia is generated by the freewheeling implement.

I run over running clutches on all my equipment just because the clutch brakes on my Kubota M series are marginal (as in single plate brakes) and easy to fail and replacement requires extensive work, as in splitting the unit ro access it.

 

[shooterdon]

Do you recommend an over running clutch if you do not disengage the PTO until the implement until it stops rotating?

 

[LouNY]

What makes me think and wonder some times is how poor service and repairs are thought about on many of the newer tractors.
My IH 574 you can pull the pto shaft, clutch and brake out of the tractor just using an access cover. Many of the IH's up to and including the 7100 and 7200 series and maybe more, you could park the tractor facing downhill and pull the entire pto out of the tractor to work on it, just a few hours to replace clutch disc's. Then the older Olivers the entire clutch and brake for the pto was an external dry disc unit.
Progress???

 

[LouNY]

Do you recommend an over running clutch if you do not disengage the PTO until the implement until it stops rotating?

How would you accomplish this?

 

[WinterDeere]

What makes me think and wonder some times is how poor service and repairs are thought about on many of the newer tractors.
My IH 574 you can pull the pto shaft, clutch and brake out of the tractor just using an access cover. Many of the IH's up to and including the 7100 and 7200 series and maybe more, you could park the tractor facing downhill and pull the entire pto out of the tractor to work on it, just a few hours to replace clutch disc's. Then the older Olivers the entire clutch and brake for the pto was an external dry disc unit.
Progress???

Mixed bag, I think. So much of the older stuff had to be serviceable, simply because it broke and required servicing so much more frequently, or because the failure rate wasn't known or easily predictable with the design tools available in that time.

But if a design can be made better, stronger, cheaper, and failure rate is well-understood enough to justify making it non-serviceable, then I can understand manufacturers going in that direction. Why add $100 to a design, just to make it more easily serviceable, if the fleet-average repair cost savings isn't diminished by more than $100 over the average ownership period of the initial buyer?

I know auto manufacturers look at total lifetime cost, in making these decisions, and even factors like reputational cost (you don't want mechanics to hate your brand) go into those decisions. I suspect that happens a little less with tractor design, but probably still more today than in the past.

 

[LouNY]

My IH 574 has in excess of 7000 hours on it and to the best of my knowledge the pto clutches have never been replaced. When I had to replace the pto shaft it's self we looked at the clutch discs with the thought of replacing them but comparing to the new ones (that we returned) they had minimal wear we did replace the piston actuator sealing rings while it was out and apart.
The IH's on the farm some of them have needed new clutch packs over the years, again with several thousands of hours on them with heavy pto usage.

 

[jyoutz]

Don't most tractors have a lever to take rear pto out of service ( eg change from rear pto to mid pto) my Kubota I just put lever out of rear pto position and then I can spin it by hand to line up with driveshaft spline and click in driveshaft, then board the tractor and put lever into rear pto position....away we go, until I realized this implements like rototiller or brushhog were a bear !

Most larger tractors don’t have a mid pto, and many now have an electric switch for engaging the pto.

 

[5030]

What makes me think and wonder some times is how poor service and repairs are thought about on many of the newer tractors.
My IH 574 you can pull the pto shaft, clutch and brake out of the tractor just using an access cover. Many of the IH's up to and including the 7100 and 7200 series and maybe more, you could park the tractor facing downhill and pull the entire pto out of the tractor to work on it, just a few hours to replace clutch disc's. Then the older Olivers the entire clutch and brake for the pto was an external dry disc unit.
Progress???

Not so with Kubota's, least the ones I own. Removing the front cover exposes everything including the PTO chutch pack, BUT while you can see it, it's not accessible from the back, only from the front and that entails a split which is why, at least for me, every implement I own has to have an over running clutch built into the implement driveline or I install one on the PTO stub. Least I can chage the stubs from 540-1000 without loosing any fluid if I park them on a hill, nose down....lol