Advice on new barn construction needed

[RedNeckGeek]

I think I'd rather have five inches of reinforced concrete over a good foundation than eight inches over a sinkhole.

Yep, but to really decide on how strong a floor you need, decide what you're going to use for. If you want to put an automotive lift on it, contact the lift manufacturer and they'll tell you what floor you need. Parking your tractor in there? Call the concrete supplier and ask them. Anything else? Google is your friend, but get references from more than one source...

 

[farmer2009]

Around here mostly seems like lifts have a general requirement of 6 inches of concrete. Some will say 4000 or 5000 psi but most just want the thickness for the anchors. Talk to your contractor friend. But I'd say either one will be enough. My building has 4 inches of a 4000 psi mix. Now my lawn mower is the heaviest thing I will have in there. Doors are not big enough for anything else.

Let it cure for a week or more before parking on it. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's cured. You can see it cure. It'll have a color change.

The grain bins for my poultry barns have a spec sheet of 8 inches. I've heard of guys talk of having to move the bins and when they drill back through the slab it's 2-4 inches thick.

 

[LD1]

My floor is 4" 4000psi stuff. Handles me 12k truck when loaded up with ballast and snowplow. Thats probably my heaviest load in terms of PSI. The backhoe is 18k but lots larger tires to spread the weight over a greater area.

People tend to overthink concrete. I agree, the base is what is important. And proper reinforcement via rebar or remesh. Most factories are lucky to get 8" of concrete, with most general being 6-8" range (aside from equipment footings). And handle 35k-40k forklifts day in and day out. And forklifts put the load on a much more concentrated area.

I say for general garage and loads up to 20k, 4" with a proper base and rebar/remesh is plenty. :2cents:

 

[daugen]

well this did not go as planned. I need to alter my plans radically. I spoke with a realtor who discussed my situation at his office, the largest in town, and told me that he didn't think I'd get a penny ROI on an expensive new building. With what I have already done to my place, apparently the local real estate market will not support higher market values.
Very discouraging.
Plan B.
I have reduced all my desires down to the minimum, found a 15X40 space behind the barn where I am going to pour a level concrete pad and put an open air roof over it, what I call a "Carolina garage".
Am working on getting quotes on that now. Should be about ten grand.
Going to spend the difference on a nicer used boat. That I can get most of my money back out of, strangely.

I think five inches of concrete is plenty. Going to install a diesel fuel tank at one end and then run two rows of implements down the concrete. Light easy to roll stuff in front. Not going to access heavy box blades, etc, on back row that often,but now they are on dirt and it's just too hard for me to hook this stuff up. will still make rolling jigs for the heavy implements. Rear access is limited due to main farm ditch back there.

Sure wish I knew how to weld. Am going to put a 275 gallon tank in at one end of the new pad, and it really ought to be elevated several feet in addition to the normal legs on a horizontal tank.
Had a nice chat with the local municipal folks who seemed really appreciative that someone might ask before vs after. Apparently environmental rules kick in at the 1100 gallon range and I'm just small fry. I told them what I was going to do and he suggested I elevate the tank a few feet since I was right next to a major ditch, which will flood in a hurricane. Seemed sensible, I sure don't want my investment floating away...actually I want to sink some kind of hold downs in the cement when the pad is poured.

Was told $1.92 per gallon for offroad ULSD diesel at 200 gallons or more. That might even come down a bit more by the time I'm ready for it.

Sometimes you don't get what you want but you get what you need...

I was quoted about 600 for a traditional single wall 275 gallon diesel tank made not far away in NC. With a good coat of paint on it, and a roof overhead, it should last a long time. Similar tank is about 800 in the Northern Tools catalog, so that makes sense, and I'm likely to spec a US made pump and nozzle setup here.
That plus pump, filters, nozzle will probably bring it to about 900-950 for the whole setup and they charge fifty bucks to deliver it. That sure sounded reasonable.
And they will warranty/service all the equipment. Am going to get a firm quote and ask for pump info/model numbers, gpm, etc. I want 12VDC here and 8gpm is plenty.
I have an extra large battery and a smart charger for it so getting power to the pump is easy. Probably would leave it in a small cart.

So I'm working on Plan B now. My local contractor said they were happy to requote the much smaller project, but I doubt it. Am going to chat with a local metal building company on the main road in town, looks well established, and have a little chat with them. I just want a pad and a roof, and am very interested to see what they will promise for underlayment and site prep, plus if they even speak of such pesky little technicalities like concrete psi which my current contractor seems to leave entirely in the hands of the concrete sub. I'm looking for someone who can talk specs with me, like how much rebar per foot they use, or the depth of the underlayment in sandy soil. 20 feet from a six foot deep ditch. The plot thickens as hopefully will the concrete....

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Drew, sometimes we just have to settle for what we need.

If you're having concrete poured anyway, give some thought to having a raised perimeter wall type support formed up for the Diesel tank at the same time. Since the crew and trucks will already be on site for the floor, the incremental cost is likely to be fairly low. And it won't budge an inch no matter how high the water gets. Lift the tank high enough, and you won't need a pump, further offsetting the cost of the raised concrete.

You made a good move talking to the building department about the fuel tank, so make another one and talk to them about the shed. You may be surprised what they have to say, not just about what the codes require, but what contractors do the most work on that kind of thing. They won't say who's good or bad, but the busiest ones are busy for a good reason.

Whatever you end up with, I hope you'll still share the adventure with the rest of us!

 

[farmer2009]

Drew. Have you given any thought to a fabric or "carport" style building. Might be able to get those down to the point ROI is null. There's another thread on here about them currently.

 

[daugen]

Drew. Have you given any thought to a fabric or "carport" style building. Might be able to get those down to the point ROI is null. There's another thread on here about them currently.

funny, I just emailed the contractor and said to stop making this so complicated; I needed a basic carport type roof. The roof will be metal, not sure about the rest of it, and frankly am looking for function over form. Going to be totally hidden by barn.

 

[daugen]

Good progress today on revamped storage shed, now a 15X40 open shed with a concrete floor, vs. a much bigger enclosed blg.
I dug the first several four foot deep holes, then let the contractor take it from there. He was tractor savvy which was good.
Was supposed to be four poles in the rear and three in the front; they goofed digging and dug five holes in the rear and had to go out and get another 6x6. 50 bucks a piece for those poles... With all those poles and trusses 18" on center, I don't think this thing is going anywhere. Metal roof and red trim to match the barn.

I didn't understand why the contractor wanted to set the poles, then let the concrete guy come and pour concrete afterwards, including whatever site prep needs to be done. Why not do the prep first? Apparently these guys have done it this way a long time, but I was worried about getting the roots out from underneath apparently more than they were. I took my FEL forks in there and dug up some big roots but why would someone want to run an excavator around poles?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

straps, that is what I was missing setting my poles. need to get some of those....

nice tractor pic.

 

[daugen]

they ordered a load of dirt, allegedly good clay dirt, and what gets delivered? "field sand" aka dirt. If you say so...
thankfully the little bridge held just fine. Getting some new plywood in before the concrete truck plus the field is getting chewed up with rain coming in later today.

 

[daugen]

That dirt/sand above finally got spread today as the concrete guys were waiting for the area to dry out.
I asked them where their front end loader/bobcat was and they looked at each other and said well, uh, I guess we were going to rent one, but they close by noon, and...
ok, enough hints dropped. Well perhaps you'd like me to do it with my tractor. Oh sure....
So I spread the sand after they had set up their forms and the concrete truck is due in Monday. Father and son raked it all nicely and doublechecked with a level. And asked me to check it...nice and level. They only wanted six hundred bucks more for the apron, so I said yes to a 5x20 apron on the left side, with a slope of one inch. I saw them laying it out and it just didn't look right. What's your slope? 3 inches. Oh no. One inch please. Yes sir. I have to be able to push things up that little slope..

Going to have a lot of dirt grading when this is done, concrete sits up high quite a bit, level with the bottom of the barn door/floor. plus the land slopes and I have to adjust for all that. I have a huge pile of dirt from having water diversion ditches put in so when they are all done making a big mess, I'll clean it up.

 

[EddieWalker]

Why are the branches of the surrounding trees touching your poles? Trees are extremely destructive. If they are not dropping branches, they are rubbing away on the building at the same time their roots are working their way under your slab to crack it. Other then rain, there isn't much worse for a building then a tree close by. A good rule of thumb is if you are standing next to your building and you can see anything other then ski when you look up, it will cause problems for you in the future.

 

[daugen]

agreed Eddie. The contractor was going to trim them back when he went up there; the lopper is ready.
It's a holly tree and I hate to cut the darn thing down, but I might...

 

[daugen]

I didn't get a chance to see what they got accomplished this afternoon but this morning I saw them lifting those very heavy laminated beams. I thought one would be plenty strong, but they were doubling them up, two on each side. In my opinion, totally overbuilt for what I was intending. I did question the use of that short piece holding up the outside beam; told it was temporary, guess I'll just wait and see. Said they were throughbolting the beams and I suppose into the posts.
this was an OSHA nightmare at times, these guys have little respect for safe material handling. No backup lines, one slip and the whole thing would come down on them.
This is the carpentry sub working for the GC, 40 years doing this so I assume he's made it this far...

Going to pour rain tomorrow so nothing more getting accomplished until at least Friday.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I think I'd be more concerned about them walking on the uncured concrete. And if one of those glue lams gets loose and falls, there will be cracks for sure.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've taken out more trees then I can remember. Some of them where really nice, but I have to stop and think of it to even remember it was there. I don't miss a single one, and would never keep a tree, no matter what type or how nice if it was in the way of a building, or had the potential to cause problems down the road.

 

[daugen]

I think I'd be more concerned about them walking on the uncured concrete. And if one of those glue lams gets loose and falls, there will be cracks for sure.

agreed. I had hoped they would wait one more day. And since for some reason the lumber yard is closed tomorrow, they are delivering plywood as we speak in the pouring rain. That can't be good for it...
Good thing I have lots of heavy tarps.

Eddie, my guess is the holly will be history after they finish hacking away at it. I did have the limbs on the surrounding pines cut off going way up, but pines drop crap constantly. The pine cones bouncing off my neighbor's metal shed roof makes a constant racket.

After the building is built, and during the first higher wind storm, I'm going back there to see if anything is moving around, getting close to the building. Very protected spot between the barn and the woods, inside an open area that is surrounded by woods on all four sides. So I don't see a high wind load here. The way they are building it is much heavier than I envisioned. The barn would go first in a blow...
I also mentioned my preference for screws over nails to the GC and he said this was being built mostly with screws, through bolts and lagbolts. I told him to use "lots of screws"...

 

[daugen]

making progress, getting roofing underlayment on, I did ask they extend the roof out two feet on each end to help with keeping stuff blowing in the sides. Rear is likely to be closed in but sides and front left open. They will reinforce the part sticking out past the building, and gutters are going on front and rear.

 

[daugen]

progress

more ruts to fix and a reminder to the GC that he has to pick up nails at the end of the day...

 

[RedNeckGeek]

a reminder to the GC that he has to pick up nails at the end of the day...

Good luck with that, Drew. The concrete contractor that poured the driveway here got several reminders, all of which were ignored. I ended up dragging a magnet through the dirt over the course of several days, recovering over a gallon of screws and nails that I'm still waiting to recycle.