Advice on new barn construction needed

/ Advice on new barn construction needed #21  
I love my trees, but I've found that one of those things I regret is keeping one when removing it would have solved all my problems. I've also learned that once it's gone, I don't miss it. If I was you, I would reconsider my plan if there wasn't any trees in the way. What would you build then?

Eddie
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#22  
actually, I would build the same thing and take the trees down if they did not clear. Power lines can be moved, or if need be, I can take the pear tree down at the far end and then move the whole thing five feet further away from the power pole.
Currently lined up with existing barn, but I think the next building will have to be set back a little.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #23  
daug, sounds like a great building ye'er after! Good size too, and I understand the need for height if a motorhome goes in there. My travel trailer is over 9' tall, need at least 10' to get'er in good.

I was about to agree with old Wagtail way down in Tasmania about price, but after seeing all that you're getting, that $50K might not be so bad after all. Keep us posted, and remember we don't read so good around here = we love pics!
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Two years ago, my 5-bay shed (one bay, roller doored workshop) with pad and assembled was A$32k.

looking at the internal picture you sent, that looks like a full metal building, no wood. No termites there for sure.
My spec is 1800 sf, concrete floor and aprons, two entrance doors, two big rollup doors, everything insulated seriously and fully hvac'd. One interior "office" using up a door and window left over from my house remodel. 200 amp wiring (rethought that), very high lumen interior lighting, hopefully dimmable (led?) and that's it. No water, no bathroom, not going to put a new septic system in my home. Happy to wizz in woods thirty feet away.

Ok, here's my guesstimate and we'll see how it pans out. 40K for a pole barn, 55k for a full steel building.
Plus another 10K for internal outfitting, gantry crane, air compressor, etc etc. I don't need a wall of fancy toolboxes; we've all seen those high end garages. So maybe one more toolbox, and for sure a large steel welded worktable. Maybe I'll build that to teach myself how to weld. Still lots of projects left...do we ever run out?

now let's consider the most important factor...which type of barn construction would a new stereo sound best in?
Would the wood help to dampen the bright sound from all that metal? How many subwoofers would be needed and where?
And perhaps a small sound stage for small bands...and....and...:D

huh? yup, just kidding.
However, unlikely I'm working in silence, though my tastes are softer and more vocal and instrumental than loud R&R.

mac you crack me up. Growing up with 70 acres of woods directly behind our 1720 stone house, and fields in front, my father always told us we had to "beat the woods back" because for sure it would try to come out and take over the property. And it did. Same now with my place, invading species of cabbagey like weeds are working their way across my lawn, directly from the woods, like an invading army. Weed and feed did nothing to them, need to dig them out by hand I suppose. And those briars, the foot a day vines with the huge ripping teeth on them, they bloody me constantly, so you are sure right. But despite all that, I have another fifty sideline trees to plant and plant I will. Lot of weedwacking and watering though.

The trees in question are an old pear tree and that large pine. Both are healthy but the pine of course makes a mess all around it. The pine is going to get heavily pruned on that one side anyway since it has a branch over the power line that needs trimming. technically the City of Washington should send a truck out here to prune it; they have to maintain the line to the barn, since it has a transformer on it. I have two pole transformers on my farm, strange...and they burn and blow up from experience as a fireman. Now that I have a new gate that allows trucks through the property going the long way around behind the orchard and not through my lawn, I might just call them. I put the gate in for many reasons, including getting concrete trucks through the property back to the barn area without destroying the lawn. That only occurred two weeks ago and was the starting impetus for me to get moving on this new storage garage now that construction vehicles could actually get to it.

oh, as far as sectioning it off, no. Will have a big floor fan to move the air around but other than using a set back thermostat, no. Once I get a few electrical bills, my settings on the thermostat will be well guided.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #26  
1.618 is the golden ratio. A golden rectangle will be 1.618 times as long as it is wide. A 30' wide building would be 48.5' long to form a golden rectangle. A 60' long building would be 37' wide.

List of works designed with the golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The west facade of the Parthenon at the Athens Acropolis purportedly contains dimensions based upon the golden ratio. The overall dimensions of the Parthenon do not: (228 by 101 ft by 45 ft tall) and I have always thought that approximate 1:2.26 ratio of width to length looks odd. :laughing:
 
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/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#27  
I've been playing with an Excel spreadsheet which i will scan shortly, and I realize that if I have the main entrance door come through the "office" area, I can keep that area warmer/cooler and let the rest of the area be less airconditioned.
That idea of sectioning off has been bugging me, seems smart. Also wonder if a swamp cooler would help in such a large open area; sure needs some air moving through it. Ceiling fans???

Thanks Dave. 30 feet is plenty; I'll have to be silver instead.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #28  
Like you, I'm planning a shop building and will be creating rooms within it, primarily for dust control. Every time I spray paint or grind something in the attached garage here, dust goes everywhere in the house as well. So I'll be paying a lot of attention to how well doors and windows seal, and will use foam gaskets under sill plates and studs where they attach to the building walls. Probably go overboard on the calking, too.

But I definitely want a utility sink for washing dirty parts and hands, so that means I'll be bringing water in. And since it's there anyway, there will be a small bathroom with a toilet, sink, and shower and yes, I'll have to install another septic system. But outside the bathroom will be an office, and it'll have a hide-a-bed couch, so if needs be, someone could spend a comfortable night (or more) out there without too much trouble. And now I'm wondering how to make access to the bathroom easy from both the shop and the office; maybe the bathroom needs two man doors?

Lots of good ideas so far in this thread, and I look forward to more posts on your progress. Thanks for taking us all along for the ride!:thumbsup:
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #30  
1.618 is the golden ratio. A golden rectangle will be 1.618 times as long as it is wide. A 30' wide building would be 48.5' long to form a golden rectangle. A 60' long building would be 37' wide.

List of works designed with the golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The west facade of the Parthenon at the Athens Acropolis purportedly contains dimensions based upon the golden ration. The overall dimensions of the Parthenon do not: (228 by 101 ft by 45 ft tall) and I have always thought that approximate 1:2.26 ratio of width to length looks odd. :laughing:

Must be why 40x64 is so popular.

I cheated a bit though and went out another 8' to a 40x72. 72 works out with 16" block, 8' boards, and 3' siding. 64" didnt work evenly with all 3
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #31  
I'm with a couple who said biggest regrets when building are

1. I too built around existing trees, (15 years later) the barn is not quite right to my needs on placement and I've had to remove some trees anyhow & more trees need removed still. I put in $20K for wood frame wood sided and roof/asphalt shingles, 50x38 w 50x12 lean too (build foot print came out 50x50) with everything on 16" centers on joists & fabricated trusses. Amish builder put up with good materials & went pretty well, could have afforded a larger place with higher 1st floor without the trees being where they WERE and barn ending up farther from house & septic.

2. I didn't build 1st floor high enough (mine is 2 story) with gambrel roof style. it only has 11 feet downstairs headers & 2nd floor joists cuts the useable space down to 9' or so. Can't put in a lift to get under anything to work on it...

3. waiting for concrete is not a bad plan I did but what was going to be a year or two to dry in turned into 10 years before it was put in.

4. build 2x what you think you need and make it able to put a lean too on BOTH sides or extend it as the space disappears after you move a few things in.

Better yet with the stakes in the ground park all the equipment inside that footprint you want in there. Then wrap stakes with caution tape and move everything in/out a few times use a bunch of old cardboard boxes for misc things like tool boxes trash cans or work benches & welders compressors laid out on the grass/staked off area etc. that will tell you how much space is needed faster than just trying to figure it out in your head. plan for posts in center if you need wider and that you loose 3 times the space you think you will around those said posts if they are required.

plan in some water yes it is pain for more septic but a sink outside to wash up in and or garden hose to power wash equipment comes in handy as heck. I put in underground tank and pumping system to pump it back to house septic. still working on finishing & heating but not out there all that much in old age anyhow.

Mark
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#32  
great ideas Spiker, thank you. I have water twenty feet away outside the barn but of course you are right. The problem is it will cost close to $15k to install water and septic here, pipe it uphill to the septic field and then replace the entire septic system because it does not meet code, which it won't. Any water that comes in must go out, and I really don't want to dump untreated waste water into the blue line ditch behind the building. Sooner or later that goes into the Pamlico River...

what my carpenter told me to do is build the building, and then add what I need with a small non code field/tank behind the bldg. Sounds like a slippery slope to me. I suppose I could put in a septic holding tank(assuming that was allowed) and have it pumped but in wet weather the trucks can't get back there, so that's not such a good idea.

very crude drawing given to builder. He will make a nice 3d model for me; has good software to do this. No thought yet given to aesthetics, other than a cupola. And no, not drawn to scale.
 

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/ Advice on new barn construction needed #33  
Drew find out if grey water systems are allowed in your area. They still are in mine. You might be able to add just a floor drain and sink and get away with a grey water pit. It's just a pit lined with filter fabric then filled with sand and gravel.

One note on your sketches. I really don't believe that your allowing enough room for your implements. Looks like you need to stake it out and place everything in it you want. As previously suggested.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#34  
Drew find out if grey water systems are allowed in your area. They still are in mine. You might be able to add just a floor drain and sink and get away with a grey water pit. It's just a pit lined with filter fabric then filled with sand and gravel.

One note on your sketches. I really don't believe that your allowing enough room for your implements. Looks like you need to stake it out and place everything in it you want. As previously suggested.


not all of them are coming in here. Some will stay under the shed roofs as currently, based on how well they weather outside. Like my water roller which can park on a sheet of plywood under a roof just fine. I drain it and soak it down with oil before putting it away anyway.

And...more importantly, I fully intend to mount my heavy implements, like the rear blade and rake, on rolling jigs. So I am hopeful I can go two deep in some places. If they move easily, fine.
All my motorized stuff has to go in here, and they will definitely go two deep on close side. Three garden tractors including a 1968 CC 125 almost fully renovated, a swisher rough cut mower, two Gravely wing mowers(in process of renovation)
pull behind tiller, and maybe six more motorized somethings. Yeah, a lot, but realistically my primary mower will stay in the barn because I'm not tracking all that grass into the garage constantly. Plus I keep fuel in the barn in the compressor room with a concrete floor. Open roof above, lots of air flow... I really want to keep fuel out of the new garage. Though there will be oil and grease there for sure. That's where I want to do maintenance.

Now to find a relatively inexpensive lift for my garden tractors and small equipment. I don't service my own vehicles any more other than crawling under with some rust preventative and spraying where the factory parts are already rusting. Frankly not much to service, oil changes are annual for me. Nothing to tune up, except on the small machinery. Finally I will have a place to put all my spare spark plugs for the dozen plus little engines I own. And air filters, and fuel filters, and.... I love being organized and I sure am not now. Still have all my stuff in moving company boxes since moving here ten months ago, been a long time waiting to get "settled". And I intend to settle in this new garage building for sure.

Funny, for some of the stuff not used often, how about putting them on pallets and going vertical in one area, with some kind of steel or wood supports to hold it all.
Lots of fun stuff to think about.

What this will mean is equipment I now have sitting outside will either come into this building or under the sheds where that equipment will now move here, all like little checkers. And when I'm done, yeah, no room for a new little bulldozer...or something. But the property won't look right if I build a bigger building, would dominate my back yard. Will just make the best of what I have and be very grateful for a concrete floor finally.

I will ask about grey water. Good idea.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #35  
Drew -
A few suggestions -
Try and use the wind to cool your building when it's only slightly warm out. I've one shop that I can open 2 doors and the slightest wind blows through cooling it significantly.
Definitely plan on a lean-to shed on one or both sides for storage of attachments. This allows you to easily drop off the bush hog and pick up the tiller without having to turn around in the barn.
MORE POWER!
I was blessed with 400 amps of service. I would view someone like you needing at least 200 amps to be happy.
Take the advice of adding water later. It's REAL easy in your area to collect a few ISO containers for wash water.

Good luck.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
  • Thread Starter
#36  
getting final quotes now, have a question on concrete. The spec I'm given is for five inches of concrete. Is that enough?
I know what is underneath it is critical but what about the concrete itself?

so far about 75K, full steel pre-engineered blg, without a/c but with full insulation, electric, electric garage doors, concrete pad and entry ramps, exhaust fans, couple of doors and windows. I was hoping the whole thing including a/c would come in at that, but hvac is another $9K or so. At least that can be added without much penalty later. Am considering a swamp cooler. Anyone had experience with them?
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #37  
Swamp cooler will be worth next to nothing in NC.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed #39  
Swamp cooler will be worth next to nothing in NC.

The only way swamp coolers work in humid areas is with high wind speeds. A no go in a shop and the installation of the fans and then the power bills would make a/c look very reasonable. We cool chickens with swamp coolers and 700+ linear feet/min. Air speeds. Does ok but not great. Low humidity and they work great.
 
/ Advice on new barn construction needed
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#40  
thanks, understand that evaporative coolers won't evaporate very well in humid conditions.

I read in a local ad for real estate how the seller was touting his concrete floor was six inches thick.
When i asked for some kind of engineering spec on the concrete floors and ramps I was told 5 inches of concrete, and nothing about the quality of the underlayment. I think I'd rather have five inches of reinforced concrete over a good foundation than eight inches over a sinkhole.
 

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