58 MPG by 2032

[nickfank]

That won't work in Texas. We have temps in the 90s at midnight during summer. There is no solar being produced at that time. ERCOT keep telling us to limit power usage. What will happen with a million EVs charging overnight? I do realize some solar farms now charge batteries to pull power from during times where we don't get enough sunlight. I'm not turning off my a/c for people to charge EVs.

Here's what ERCOT has to say: At 5AM, the load in TX is about 2/3 of the load at 5PM. That 33% headroom will charge a lot of cars in off-peak hours right now with no change in capacity. Even though it's still hot when the sun goes down, as soon as the sun isn't beating down on your house, the AC doesn't have to work nearly as hard. In addition, fewer people are working at night. At the utility I worked for in Indiana the load was 1/2 at night, so TX is different but not that different.

Source: Actual Loads of Forecast Zones Display

For folks who prefer charts over tables, here's a chart that shows the available capacity throughout the day: Capacity Available to SCED: Current Day

ERCOT is planning already, and by 2029, they expect a 1.36% increase in load due to EVs. I'm guessing that with 5 years to work on it, a 1.36% increase in load won't bring the grid to its knees. After all, you are Texans. I've heard that you know how to build stuff.

To look at it another way, they expect that "ERCOT’s electric load will grow at a rate of 2.1%/year without EV load, and 2.3%/year with EV load."

Next time someone tells you that the grid can't handle EVs, remember this study from the State where the economy is driven by fossil fuels. The increase in load that is already being handled routinely each year with nobody claiming it's a problem is ten times as large as the increase expected from EVs. That 1/10 is significant, but not a reason to claim Armagridden will result from EVs.

Source: https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2023/08/28/ERCOT-EV-Adoption-Final-Report.pdf (Take a look at page 63.)

 

[aircommuter]

Let’s start with Biden’s campaign vehicle. A 747 followed by two F16s and KC 135 tanker. That’s what I call saving fuel! Cruise ships are guzzlers, not even necessary. Importing people wastes fuel too. The whole thing is an irresponsible folly. Agendas cannot override physics and electrical engineering principles.

 

[JasperFrank]

I think E-fuels are not being followed enough. Yes, production is very small now, but with scalability, I can see Carbon Neutral.

 

[Grumpycat]

I think E-fuels are not being followed enough. Yes, production is very small now, but with scalability, I can see Carbon Neutral.

Horribly energy inefficient. Worse even than hydrogen.

Far better off building batteries to charge.

 

[Williy]

We originally had central a/c it needed a 60 amp breaker
They installed it in the ceiling drain line plugged up and
destroyed the ceiling so removed it and installed two window
a/c units one is 8400 btu and the other is 6400 btu and they
are rated at 12.8 amps total. Needless to day our electric bill
dropped from a little under $400 to low $50's but I also installed
some solar to run the a/c units. Been saving up hopefully will
be total solar before end of next year. For batteries can't see
paying $1300+ for a 100 ah battery should be some good new
batteries with more ah for a lot less money.
Also we are total electric.

willy

 

[WinterDeere]

We originally had central a/c it needed a 60 amp breaker
They installed it in the ceiling drain line plugged up and
destroyed the ceiling so removed it and installed two window
a/c units one is 8400 btu and the other is 6400 btu and they
are rated at 12.8 amps total. Needless to day our electric bill
dropped from a little under $400 to low $50's but I also installed
some solar to run the a/c units. Been saving up hopefully will
be total solar before end of next year. For batteries can't see
paying $1300+ for a 100 ah battery should be some good new
batteries with more ah for a lot less money.
Also we are total electric.

willy

Whoa there, Williy. I think you're comparing apples to oranges, here. It would be exceedingly unusual to find any window A/C unit with anywhere near the net efficiency of central A/C. So, in comparing these bills, I suspect you are not cooling the place quite the same. If you are really keeping the entire house at the same temperature with two window units, that you did with central A/C, then I'd venture to say your central system was exceptionally poorly-configured. Window units are usually much more expensive to operate, per BTU, than any central system.

 

[bnold]

ERCOT is planning already, and by 2029, they expect a 1.36% increase in load due to EVs. I'm guessing that with 5 years to work on it, a 1.36% increase in load won't bring the grid to its knees. After all, you are Texans. I've heard that you know how to build stuff.

To look at it another way, they expect that "ERCOT’s electric load will grow at a rate of 2.1%/year without EV load, and 2.3%/year with EV load."

Next time someone tells you that the grid can't handle EVs, remember this study from the State where the economy is driven by fossil fuels. The increase in load that is already being handled routinely each year with nobody claiming it's a problem is ten times as large as the increase expected from EVs. That 1/10 is significant, but not a reason to claim Armagridden will result from EVs.

Source: https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2023/08/28/ERCOT-EV-Adoption-Final-Report.pdf (Take a look at page 63.)

Wow, pretty interesting. I wonder if PGE has a study to the contrary?

 

[Grumpycat]

Wow, pretty interesting. I wonder if PGE has a study to the contrary?

Just look up the SEER for each to compare.

 

[Grumpycat]

For batteries can't see
paying $1300+ for a 100 ah battery should be some good new
batteries with more ah for a lot less money.
Also we are total electric.

You are shopping the wrong parameter. Buy itself amp-hours is as meaningless as voltage. Shop for Watt-hours. Voltage times amp-hours equals Watt-hours. Divide by 1000 for kiloWatt-hours, kWh.

If 100ah at 12V the it would be half the power of a 24V 100ah battery.

This is why your electric bill charges for kWh, not amp-hours or voltage.

 

[aircommuter]

You are shopping the wrong parameter. Buy itself amp-hours is as meaningless as voltage. Shop for Watt-hours. Voltage times amp-hours equals Watt-hours. Divide by 1000 for kiloWatt-hours, kWh.

If 100ah at 12V the it would be half the power of a 24V 100ah battery.

This is why your electric bill charges for kWh, not amp-hours or voltage.

Watts are a product of amps and volts.

 

[Grumpycat]

Watts are a product of amps and volts.

But the ability to deliver Watts for an hour is the true measure of battery capacity. Wh or kWh.

 

[aircommuter]

I was replying to the question about electric billing.

 

[Grumpycat]

I was replying to the question about electric billing.

Electric billing is also in kWh, not Watts.

 

[aircommuter]

Electric billing is also in kWh, not Watts.

It is just a thousand watts for an hour.

 

[WinterDeere]

At the risk of triggering anyone's PTSD from high school Physics class, kW is power, whereas kWh is energy. Power is energy divided by time, or the rate of energy transferred.

What you're buying for the electric company is energy, the product of power (watts) and time (hours), as aircommuter already noted.

 

[Grumpycat]

It is just a thousand watts for an hour.

Watts is significantly different than Watt-hours.

When you cutsie slang shorten Watt-hours to Watts the meaning of what you are saying totally changes.

 

[nickfank]

I'm chuckling that on a tractor forum we're discussing the difference between electrical power & energy, being careful to get our units right, talking about how wind resistance increases with the cube of the speed, and generally geeking out. Thanks for breaking all of the stereotypes in a positive way. Whether we agree or not on other issues, it's great to see people focusing on getting the facts and the math correct.

 

[nickfank]

Let’s start with *****’s campaign vehicle. A 747 followed by two F16s and KC 135 tanker. That’s what I call saving fuel! Cruise ships are guzzlers, not even necessary. Importing people wastes fuel too. The whole thing is an irresponsible folly. Agendas cannot override physics and electrical engineering principles.

I completely agree with the notion that private jets and other forms of conspicuous consumption don't set a good example.

I'll push back a bit on the use of the phrase "campaign vehicle". It's not that simple.

Our current sitting president was well known for using public transportation to commute to work when he was a senator. The massive vehicles that come with a full suite of communications equipment and security came with the job of president, and these vehicles are a requirement, not a choice. When he had the choice, the current president chose the form of transportation that consumes least fuel.

A president or vice president is *required* to use the vehicles supplied by the military and secret service, even on personal or campaign trips. However, when Air Force One is used for a campaign trip, the campaign must reimburse the Air Force for the equivalent cost of chartering a private jet. So the campaign pays for the basic transportation, and the taxpayers pay for the upgrade to vehicles that keep the president in communication and secure at all times. That's part of the job, not a choice, and there are reasonable rules in place around reimbursement for campaigning.

Source: https://www.npr.org/2016/07/07/485097272/fact-check-air-force-one-who-pays

If you're going to call politicians out for their conspicuous consumption, I'd say it makes sense to focus on those who, when not constrained by their work duties, *choose* to throw away fuel in a grand display of their wealth. It also makes sense to look at the number of personal or campaign trips they make while in office. I'll leave it as an exercise for the readers to assess who the worst offenders are by that measure.

 

[Williy]

How do you figure out example a car battery has 800 cold
cranking amps = how many KWH how to figure this??
How long would a lithium 100 ah battery last drawing 15 amps?
My wife had the 6400 btu unit cooled her 17x12 room an the
8400 cools the kitchen. dining room and we keep the
temp at 75 F because the temps are close to 100+ here
no need to cool where we are not! I an usually outside with
no a/c working in the heat as I don't like going from 100+ to
75 degrees F when your soaking wet from sweating!

willy

 

[WinterDeere]

How do you figure out example a car battery has 800 cold
cranking amps = how many KWH how to figure this??

Unrelated numbers, like horsepower and fuel tank capacity. Cold cranking amps is how much current the battery can delivery, instantaneously at a specified temperature, the horsepower of this analogy. The kWh or amp-hour (at given voltage) numbers are its capacity, or size of the fuel tank in this analogy.

Deep-cycle batteries may have higher amp-hour numbers with lower CCA capability, versus regular car batteries.