Environmentalists won't quit until we are walking and have no vehicles

[toppop52]

Put YOUR money where your mouth is...not MY money.

Thanks Roy, that's the one thing that's needed saying from post one!:thumbsup:

 

[RoyJackson]

Thanks Roy, that's the one thing that's needed saying from post one!:thumbsup:

I'm actually considering opening a high speed dirigible transit system...between all the hot air from some TBN members and those folks in Washington DC, there would be plenty of lifting media...and, it's renewable!!!!

 

[crash325]

So, what happens if a site does not become a superfund site? Does it just sit there unused forever? Do they just pretend the toxins are not there or don't affect anything?

I can't see houses being built at an abandoned asbestos mine.. so what happens to that land?

Last time I looked a Mine was a Hole in the Ground. Me thinks that someone building houses there, might want to fill that hole.

Problem with folks that put their Green Suit on, they loose all sense of realism and when enough is enough.

No one here or most anywhere else is going to say asbestos dust if healthy or good for you.

Anyone remember the cottage cheese ceiling of the 60's & 70's??? They were held together by asbestos. Did all the people that lived in those homes get cancer???? Anyone ever see the stupid measures taken when one of those homes is up graded or torn down.

Back to miners and diesel fumes & coal dust. What caused the cancer, coal dust of fumes???? Who actually knows????

Asphalt highways & parking lots, Yep the wear all the time and there is asbestos in the air all around them. Maybe you should stock up on dust masks before you drive anywhere. And then there is the fossil fuel fumes and the Rubber Dust. Those dust masks may not be good enough, better get a full on respirator.

Lets build a bunch of high speed rails, that will cure lots of problems and help save the planet. Yea Right.
It will take tons & tons of copper, steel and plastic to build these babies. Where dose all that come from??? Maybe some giant holes in the ground. How do we dig those holes. shovels run off of electricity, loaders & haul trucks run off of diesel. OPPP's We better shut those mines down, gota save the earth.

Obummer has been saving the earth with trillions of $$$$ down the drain. Oh it has created jobs. OPPP's at a cost of a little over 2 million a job. Of about 20 company's that he sent money to currently 17 or more are have or are going bankrupt. Another little something often overlooked almost everyone of those company's gave massive $$$ to his campaign fund.

The largest solar power plant, now that its finished has exactly 2 full time employes. OH Wait, It has been Shut Down by The EPA. Its going to upset some lizards. It was also built where predator birds live and any bird flying through those mirrors gets fried.
Brilliant Plan don't ya think???

Enough for now - keep your Green Suit clean, but don't use any detergent on it.

 

[mrpoppy58]

Last time I looked a Mine was a Hole in the Ground. Me thinks that someone building houses there, might want to fill that hole.

Problem with folks that put their Green Suit on, they loose all sense of realism and when enough is enough.

No one here or most anywhere else is going to say asbestos dust if healthy or good for you.

Anyone remember the cottage cheese ceiling of the 60's & 70's??? They were held together by asbestos. Did all the people that lived in those homes get cancer???? Anyone ever see the stupid measures taken when one of those homes is up graded or torn down.

Back to miners and diesel fumes & coal dust. What caused the cancer, coal dust of fumes???? Who actually knows????

Asphalt highways & parking lots, Yep the wear all the time and there is asbestos in the air all around them. Maybe you should stock up on dust masks before you drive anywhere. And then there is the fossil fuel fumes and the Rubber Dust. Those dust masks may not be good enough, better get a full on respirator.

Lets build a bunch of high speed rails, that will cure lots of problems and help save the planet. Yea Right.
It will take tons & tons of copper, steel and plastic to build these babies. Where dose all that come from??? Maybe some giant holes in the ground. How do we dig those holes. shovels run off of electricity, loaders & haul trucks run off of diesel. OPPP's We better shut those mines down, gota save the earth.

Obummer has been saving the earth with trillions of $$$$ down the drain. Oh it has created jobs. OPPP's at a cost of a little over 2 million a job. Of about 20 company's that he sent money to currently 17 or more are have or are going bankrupt. Another little something often overlooked almost everyone of those company's gave massive $$$ to his campaign fund.

The largest solar power plant, now that its finished has exactly 2 full time employes. OH Wait, It has been Shut Down by The EPA. Its going to upset some lizards. It was also built where predator birds live and any bird flying through those mirrors gets fried.
Brilliant Plan don't ya think???

Enough for now - keep your Green Suit clean, but don't use any detergent on it.

I wish I had said that.

 

[JoeBuyer]

The trucking and asphalt industry lobbyists hamstrung the railroad industry years ago. It is a shame that we don't have a modern railway system, particularly for long haul freight. It is so much more efficient. There is way too much long haul truck traffic.

 

[buickanddeere]

Domush quote "Gas engines are outdated. It's time to move on as much as possible, " Unquote
Look at the numbers. In light vehicles the direct injected gasoline engine offers diesel power and economy on an inherently cleaner burning lighter fuel.
No turbo, glow plugs, variable wastegate, particulate filter, urea injection or dual battery starting system either. To have to purchase up front and maintain through the vehicle life.
The spark engine also allows use of LP, natural gas and alcohol fuel.
There is no battery media that offers the power density of hydrocarbon fuels unless the Almighty re-writes the laws of physics and chemistry.
The only place a high speed rail system could work but the overall gains would be minimal or even a net loss. If the airline hubs were joined via high speed rail from eg

Alaska
Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport (ANC)
Alaska Airlines
[edit]Arizona
Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX)
Great Lakes Airlines
US Airways[3]

[edit]California
Los Angeles International Airport (LAX)
Alaska Airlines
American Airlines[4]

Great Lakes Airlines

United Airlines[2]


San Diego International Airport (SAN)

San Francisco International Airport (SFO)
United Airlines[2]
Virgin America
[edit]Colorado
Denver International Airport (DEN)
Frontier Airlines
Great Lakes Airlines

United Airlines[2]





[edit]Florida
Miami International Airport (MIA)
American Airlines[4]


Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL)
Spirit Airlines
Orlando International Airport (MCO)
AirTran Airways
)
[edit]Georgia
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL)
AirTran Airways
Delta Air Lines[1]


[edit]Hawaii
Honolulu International Airport (HNL)
Hawaiian Airlines
Kahului Airport (OGG)
Hawaiian Airlines[5]
[edit]Illinois
Chicago Midway International Airport (MDW)

O'Hare International Airport (ORD)
American Airlines[4]
United Airlines[2]
[edit]Kentucky
Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport (CVG)
Delta Air Lines[1]
[edit]Maryland
Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (BWI)
AirTran Airways

[edit]Massachusetts
Logan International Airport (BOS)
Cape Air
[edit]Michigan
Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport (DTW)
Delta Air Lines[1]


Spirit Airlines
[edit]Minnesota
Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport (MSP)
Delta Air Lines[1]


Sun Country Airlines
[edit]Missouri
Kansas City International Airport (MCI)


Frontier Airlines
Lambert-St. Louis International Airport (STL)


[edit]New Jersey
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR)
United Airlines[6]


[edit]New York
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK)
American Airlines[4]

Delta Air Lines[1]
JetBlue Airways
Pan American World Airways (defunct)
La Guardia International Airport (LGA)
Delta Air Lines (Opens July 11th, 2012)
[edit]North Carolina
Charlotte-Douglas International Airport (CLT)
US Airways[3]

[edit]Ohio
Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE)
United Airlines[6]

[edit]Oregon
Portland International Airport (PDX)
Alaska Airlines
[edit]Pennsylvania
Philadelphia International Airport (PHL)


US Airways[3]
[edit]Tennessee
Memphis International Airport (MEM)
Delta Air Lines[1]

[edit]Texas
Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport (DFW)
American Airlines[4]

George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)
United Airlines[6]

[edit]Utah
Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC)
Delta Air Lines[1]

[edit]Virginia/Washington, D.C.
Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD)

United Airlines[2]
[edit]Washington
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA)
Alaska Airlines
[edit]Wisconsin
General Mitchell International Airport, Milwaukee (MKE)
AirTran Airways
Frontier Airlines

 

[buickanddeere]

High speed Rail line to and from either the Alaska or Hawaii airline hubs present more challenges that the other hubs.

 

[tcreeley]

Re rail- there is always a way if people want it, now they probably don't want it. In Maine there is one major highway from the bottom to the top of the state- south to north. The highway goes from 6 lanes two way to 4 lanes two way, then eventually turns into a 2 lane highway for the last quarter. Business is concentrated in the south. There is a proposal to build an east/west highway- linking Montreal - through Maine- to Nova Scotia. This would open up a new corridor and be a boost for business. The established interests to the south are doing their best to kill this idea, ie no change protects their status quo. I would like to see the road built.
I would also like to see rail looked at seriously and tried out- for the same reasons- new business opportunities.

 

[RoyJackson]

I would also like to see rail looked at seriously and tried out- for the same reasons- new business opportunities.

If you're discussing freight...might make sense. But high speed rail for passenger service? Nope......and, in northern Maine?? Who would ride it...reindeer?

 

[tcreeley]

...help Santa out maybe!
We have two buses- Greyhound and Concord Trailways running daily multiple runs to Boston- always full. But rail would hurt them up here. However, a few years ago they added train service from Portland, Me to South Station, Boston and have had a good ridership response.

I don't know about high speed rail- requires a new rail bed. I think we are using a lot of traditional existing rail beds- though they have been dismantling those as quickly as they can- dumb- just cutting options for the future.

 

[lilranch2001]

Apples and oranges. Might as well give up on cars based on the Model T having the same number of wheels.



Last time I checked, a 747 doesn't do curb side pickup, either. If I want to fly somewhere the nearest airport is Nashville, TN. Only the HS rail is 4 times more efficient. Do you have a point?



I'll state this in a language you speak fluently, sarcasm:

Just like how all highways are privately owned..
Government doesn't have any hand in airports, highways and current rail, nope..
And all of the wars we continue to fight for oil so shortsighted people can continue burying their heads in the sand, that doesn't suck any money, not at all..
Oh yeah.. that logic thing, so inconvenient..

I hope speaking your language helped, because I care so much about people who hide their inadequacies behind sarcasm.. :irked:

Hey Mushy, if I was you and believed how you believe, I would take that tractor and give it to some poor person and buy a mule, that way you would be GREEN, wait..... no that mule probably would putter a lot of CO2 out if its tail pipe, just cannot win can ya?

 

[toppop52]

Hey Mushy, if I was you and believed you believe, I would take that tractor and give it to some poor person and buy a mule, that way you would be GREEN, wait..... no that mule probably would putter a lot of CO2 out if its tail pipe, just cannot win can ya?

Sometimes not....:laughing:

 

[bcp]

From:
The Great Horse-Manure Crisis of 1894 | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

A horse will on average produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day. Consequently, the streets of nineteenth-century cities were covered by horse manure. This in turn attracted huge numbers of flies, and the dried and ground-up manure was blown everywhere. In New York in 1900, the population of 100,000 horses produced 2.5 million pounds of horse manure per day, which all had to be swept up and disposed of.

 

[aczlan]

Those figures are not for high speed rail, but commuter rail (AKA subway), so it doesn't apply for a comparison.

Wikipedia would like to disagree with you: Commuter rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the same article you cite it lists a high speed passenger train which actually runs on diesel (so no conversion is needed) from Colorado Rail (USA), which has an efficiency of 468 passenger-miles/US gallon, which is 3 times a full capacity e-350 van, crushes a Prius by almost 6 times efficiency (keeping with your assumed 2 people, although the US average is even lower at 1.2 people per vehicle) and 4 times a 747 airliner (the most efficient airplane listed) at 91 p-MPG.

In 2007 Amtrack had an average of 71.6 P-MPG and a theoretical P-MPG (if they ran at 100% capacity) of 189.7. That train (as specced on Wikipedia) gets 1.125 US MPG, has 472 seats and room for 552 people standing. To get that P-MPG they would have to run at 40.6% of their max capacity or with 88% of their seats filled. Not going to see a train that efficient or that large (1024 seats) running outside of large cities (which is where it is used, SLC, Frisco, San Diego, NYC, etc as it is too big, so you would see smaller, cheaper, less efficient cars running the rails at 60-150 P-MPG (which ranges are beatable by a plane, high MPG vehicles, vans, etc)
Another issue to work around is that around here, Amtrack and other passenger lines run on someone else's rails, so to go from Rochester to NYC means that you get sidelined several times while the CSX freight trains go through. Makes a 6 hour drive into a 8+ hour ride and at those times, I will drive.

Also, a standard twin track railway has a typical capacity 13% greater than a 6-lane highway (3 lanes each way), while requiring only 40% of the land.

Where are you going to get a trillion dollars to build more rail lines? Laying track, acquiring land, etc are not cheap and your ROI will not be too good.

Aaron Z

 

[RoyJackson]

Where are you going to get a trillion dollars to build more rail lines? Laying track, acquiring land, etc are not cheap and your ROI will not be too good.

Aaron Z

High speed rail requires welded track...expensive to lay.
And the costs...that's the rub...the US just cannot afford it...not at this time. And, we'd have to realize it would be highly subsidized continuously.

I have read that California is rethinking the high speed rail system they were going to build. The cost was 68 billion (not counting overruns). Looks like the voters are a bit upset that local education (among other services) was taking cuts, so I reckon they've decided to get their priorities straight. I read this recently on CNN or Fox and haven't been following California's high speed rail project, so that statement may not be up to date. Maybe some CA TBNers can comment.

 

[Renze]

Since a couple posts mentioned pollution in China and the Philipines...I also told my elected reps...suggested, actually, the imported goods must meet the same environmental regs (as American manufacturers) to be allowed in the US market.

I've been thinking in that direction for a while... IF they want a free world market economy, they must apply the same environmental, health and safety, and human rights interferences with the free market (yes even a prohibition of slavery is an interference with the free market economy which increases cost price, even though i do NOT advocate any of this !) to those banana republics too. And if not, add extra import tax.
I am not such a capitalist that i say all environment, health, human rights, is BS, i just say its BS that people think its "morally wrong" to protect the domestic market...

Just saying, in developed countries the health, environment and human rights standards are so much higher that because of the unevenness, THERE IS NO FREE WORLD MARKET....

And added to that: only 3% of the carbon emission is caused by human activity: The biggest emittor of carbon in China is a natural coal fire that is going on for years, and efforts of the authorities to extinguish it and save the coal for energy production, have all failed...

People think they must save the world and do crazy stuff to prevent armageddon, yet it proves over and over again that we cannot control nature at all....

 

[Hollow]

It doesn't matter if your pro-EPA or anti-EPA, the fact is the federal government has no authority under the constitution to regulate anything with the EPA. Constitutionally it is up to the states to regulate themselves.

As for high speed rail. When I worked for the railroad it took over $3,000,000 to run one coal train from Wyoming to Georgia Power. If you think you can raise that kind of money to run a modern day train through ticket sales your silly.

 

[Hollow]

Double post.