3pt Log winch/grapple

[CDN Farm Boy]

I'm looking to build a log grapple/winch for the 3pt of my B3300. I've been watching for 2 yrs now for a used skidding winch to show up but nothing small enough and they are crazy expensive if they do (like 80-90% of new for a beat up piece of junk). I've been planning something similar to what Rustyiron did but I doubt mine won't be nearly as elegant.


Does anyone have a drawing/layout of a bypass grapple that they'd like to share? I'm looking to make something similar to the Vably or Wallenstein and figured it was easier to ask rather than trial and error to figure it out. I've got most of the steel here and there is a decent supply at a scrap yard only a few miles up the road, just buying the grapple isn't an option. I'm just going to hang it on a pair of chains, no hyd rotator.

As for the winch, I've got a Warn HS9500i sitting on the shelf. I was going to use it on a firewood processor but this seems like it might be a better use. Is there any reason why I shouldn't or can't use this winch especially since I have it? Any of the hyd winches I've seen are usually both very slow and very expensive. Some of the old iron PTO winches seem ridiculously large and far more capacity than I need for my little machine.

 

[Rustyiron]

"Elegant" never been called that before:laughing:
Wasn't there a guy (I think from Canada) that made a really sweet grapple, painted blue iirc. Pretty sure he hung it from a chain also. It was a very impressive build.
I'd be happy to make some (grapple) measurements for you, but it might get complicated.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

"Elegant" never been called that before:laughing:
Wasn't there a guy (I think from Canada) that made a really sweet grapple, painted blue iirc. Pretty sure he hung it from a chain also. It was a very impressive build.
I'd be happy to make some (grapple) measurements for you, but it might get complicated.

Yes, I do remember seeing that one, nice build it was. I like the idea of the bypass jaws better as it closes up into a tighter package and I think it would be less likely to try to spit out larger logs.

 

[motownbrowne]

What's your budget on this build? I ask because you can buy a Norse 290 three point winch for $2200 from Labonville. That'd be a good size for your tractor. It'll be tough to build something of good quality that is as useful as a 3 point winch for less than that. An electric winch will never approach a PTO winch in speed or duty cycle.

 

[ovrszd]

An electric winch will never approach a PTO winch in speed or duty cycle.

I agree. I run electric winches on my Jeep Buggies. Takes a very, very good single battery, or better yet, dual batteries. Also need an alternator putting out at least 60 amps.

I think if I hooked up my Warn 9500 winch to my Kubota it would drain the battery in one full length pull. Might not even make that pull without problems depending on resistance of the load.

 

[Rustyiron]

I agree. I run electric winches on my Jeep Buggies. Takes a very, very good single battery, or better yet, dual batteries. Also need an alternator putting out at least 60 amps.

I think if I hooked up my Warn 9500 winch to my Kubota it would drain the battery in one full length pull. Might not even make that pull without problems depending on resistance of the load.

Speaking of winches, Richard have you used or any of your buddies have an opinion on the Milemarker power steering (hyd) winch. I've seen them show up here on C/L and look like military humm-vee take offs. Pretty cheap money.

 

[ovrszd]

Speaking of winches, Richard have you used or any of your buddies have an opinion on the Milemarker power steering (hyd) winch. I've seen them show up here on C/L and look like military humm-vee take offs. Pretty cheap money.

Yes. I had one that I used for 5 years until it burned in my shop.

Good points, will run forever with no fear of electrical drain. Has tremendous pulling force, easily exceeding it's rating. Two speed so cable retrieval with no load was pretty fast.

Bad points. Two speed, will barely reel cable in high, horribly slow in low. Off memory I think it's like 6ft per minute cable speed in low with no load. My electric Warn 9500 is 67ft per minute with no load.

I think one would work for a logging setup if a person can stand the slowness. Very durable and easy to power. I don't think you can wear one out.

 

[Rustyiron]

I wondered how they would work if you "fed" it with something a little more substancial than a p.s. pump?
IIRC there have been a few on c/l for $250-300. They look like they've been used very little if at all. I think theres a place in northern ME that re furbs the Hummvee's for the govt., and they might be showing up through that source.

 

[ovrszd]

I wondered how they would work if you "fed" it with something a little more substancial than a p.s. pump?
IIRC there have been a few on c/l for $250-300. They look like they've been used very little if at all. I think theres a place in northern ME that re furbs the Hummvee's for the govt., and they might be showing up through that source.

I suppose you could gain some speed by feeding it more hydraulics?? I only used mine fed by a Jeep Power Steering pump. I added a reservoir and a cooler to minimize heating of the oil. Never had any issues with it. Just very slow. Alright for a short, self retrieval pull. But run out 60ft of cable and hang on a steep climb with it, clawing and winching to the top, was brutally slow. If you got any traction and lurched forward you instantly ran over the cable. But I'd never say anything negative about the dependability. Mile Marker nailed it with this product in that area.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

"Elegant" never been called that before:laughing:
Wasn't there a guy (I think from Canada) that made a really sweet grapple, painted blue iirc. Pretty sure he hung it from a chain also. It was a very impressive build.
I'd be happy to make some (grapple) measurements for you, but it might get complicated.

That would be very much appreciated. Never having looked at one in person, I don't see it being quite that complicated. 4 pivots points, 3 of which maintain the same dimensions throughout and the 4th where the cyl is mounted.

As I see it, the measurements needed should be:
Pivot separation on each tong
Length of linkage between tongs
Distance between the tong pivot points on the main frame
Retracted length of cyl
Extended length of cyl
Length of each tong from pivot to tip
The curve of each tong (straight edge from tip to tip then measure the offset to the curve)

Ok, so 10 measurements. I can see that pushing it into the complicated category.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Interesting... a couple posts I made earlier from my phone didn't show up here. Now to try to remember what I wrote :mur:

That $2200 Norse winch would be $3500 by the time I got it here. The cheapest winch I've found is $2900 with brand name ones starting at $3600. At this point, the grapple is the priority and the winch secondary. With using salvaged steel, I'll only be a few hundred into the grapple & frame including the hydraulics. While I want to plan for the winch, I'm not sure it will happen right now. I only cut enough to heat the house for the season right now and I can get the tractor to most of it.

I like the simplicity of just bolting on a hydraulic winch but the only one I've had any experience with was a MileMarker mounted on an F250 lowering my Toyota down a cliff. As ovrszd said, painfully slow. I figured the electronics of the Kubota wouldn't be up to the task of the Warn but it was worth asking since it's on my shelf. Love that thing, it's out-winched everything but an 8274. Considering my limited use of this, I don't see needing the production capability of 100-200 ft/min like most PTO skidding winches but I'm not willing to wait all day to pull one log either. That 60 ft/min of the 9500 seems about right but certainly not worth burning up an alternator or cooking a battery.

 

[bcp]

Here is where I would start designing a grapple if I didn't have one to copy.

Look on these Google links for a side view of a style you like, then add your scaled measurements. Then first build a two dimensional one of wood to check operation.

log grapple

logging grapple

bypass grapple

Bruce

 

[Rustyiron]

I forgot about this one.http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/228465-different-kinda-grapple.html
Another great build.
CDN you'll have to wait until I hitch it back up. It's in the snow covered up right now, but If I get the time next week I plan on a little work for it so I'll do some measuring.

 

[czechsonofagun]

You could get hydraulic winch.

Hydraulic Winches | Product Types | Mile Marker Industries

 

[ovrszd]

You could get hydraulic winch.

Hydraulic Winches | Product Types | Mile Marker Industries

If my memory is correct, I had a 10,500 on my Jeep Buggy. Tough as a boot. Slow as a turtle.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Hydraulic winch would be my first choice if I could find one that was reasonably priced and had decent line speed with the hyd flow I have available (about 6 GPM and 2200 psi) So far, I've found nothing that fits even one of those criteria, let alone all 3

 

[ovrszd]

Hydraulic winch would be my first choice if I could find one that was reasonably priced and had decent line speed with the hyd flow I have available (about 6 GPM and 2200 psi) So far, I've found nothing that fits even one of those criteria, let alone all 3

I'll probably get pounced on,,,,, but,,,,, in my opinion a Milemarker hydraulic winch will never be fast in the "low" speed, regardless of how much flow you throw at it. It's simply not designed to be fast.

I always thought the 2 speed thing was kinda jacked up. Low needed to be a bit faster. High needed to be a bit slower. Then they both could be used. All high was good for was spooling in cable......

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I'll probably get pounced on,,,,, but,,,,, in my opinion a Milemarker hydraulic winch will never be fast in the "low" speed,

I think you are right, it takes more than a bigger pump to get speed, you would need to upgrade all the fittings/hoses valves ect. to handle the added GPM's...

SR

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

You won't get pounced on by me, that's for sure. I think the exact same thing about MileMarkers....at least the ones I have experience with.

Rusty, is your Ramsay any better?

 

[Rustyiron]

It's as fast as I need it to be, iirc it was around 60fpm at rated load, first wrap on drum. That's a foot a second and in my woods with all the stumps and rocks, plenty. I put it on today and noticed that I just let it work at idle speed (tractor throttle). I took some measurements and pics. I'll pm them to you. If your mostly cleaning up fence rows, I'd say skip the winch, but in the woods, esp "thinning" I find it invaluable. Maybe you could design it to take a winch later. That's pretty much what I did except the winch was first, but built to be able to add the grapple later on.
With the grapple, I'd highly recommend a hyd. toplink.