3 pt Logging Winch Advice

[gouldy2]

Looking for a price on a used Farmi J290 and if it will fit a Kioti CK35..THANKS

 

[motownbrowne]

Looking for a price on a used Farmi J290 and if it will fit a Kioti CK35..THANKS

That'll fit fine on your ck. I'd probably advise going for the 351 if you can find one. Price isn't gonna be too much off the retail, unless it's really beat. I'd guess you're looking at around $2500 average used price. I got a great deal on my 351, but the guy didn't know what he had. In addition to searching for Farmi, try adding Norse, Wallenstein, Tajifun, "skidding winch", " log winch" "logging winch" "tractor winch" to your search terms. Mine was listed on Craigslist as "bush hog and tractor winch".

 

[gouldy2]

Thanks for the info.What is the difference between the 290 and the 351???

 

[LouieJunior]

I am linking to the Nose dealer from which I purchased my 350 model. The price was very favorable for my intended use and shipping was included. This is my first winter with it and I am very pleased with it so far.

Norse 3 Point Hitch Winches

 

[motownbrowne]

Thanks for the info.What is the difference between the 290 and the 351???

The amount of line pull and the size/weight of the winch is the difference. The numbers for most of these winches is a sort of code: the Farmi 351 has 3,510 kgs of line pull. Multiply by 2.2 and you get a touch over 7,700 lbs of pull. The 290 is gonna have a little under 6400lbs of pull. I think the Norse winches that Louie linked to are rated the same way. Now it should be noted that these ratings are usually for the first wrap of cable on the drum. As more cable winds around the drum, the size of the drum increases reducing your mechanical advantage.

I have a 351 on my Kubota MX4700. Probably could get away with a 501, with 11,000lbs of pull, but when you find a good deal you take what you can get. I'm will say that I'm darned impressed with that implement, and now that I have one, o wouldn't think of living without it. If mine were stolen tomorrow, I'd be replacing it asap.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I don't like the way Farmi rates their winches...

My winch is a Wallenstein brand winch, and it's rated on the LAST wrap on the drum, as they all should be!

SR

 

[motownbrowne]

I don't like the way Farmi rates their winches...

My winch is a Wallenstein brand winch, and it's rated on the LAST wrap on the drum, as they all should be!

SR

I know what you mean, but as long as you're comparing apples to apples, any rating works. It's not like we can easily confirm their ratings anyway (I know it's possible), so it's just a tool for comparing them with each other. In that regard, Wallenstein should rate them the same as everyone else, so they can more easily be compared.

 

[bcp]

Just give two numbers--first wrap and last wrap.

Bruce

 

[Sawyer Rob]

My Wallenstein does give two numbers...

On mine, it's 24,000 and change for the first wrap and 9,000 for the last...

I REALLY like that first big number, because it's what get's the load going! Another thing, you usually don't start out on the first wrap, so having a bigger number with a half loaded drum is a big advantage...

SR

 

[4570Man]

My Wallenstein does give two numbers... On mine, it's 24,000 and change for the first wrap and 9,000 for the last... I REALLY like that first big number, because it's what get's the load going! Another thing, you usually don't start out on the first wrap, so having a bigger number with a half loaded drum is a big advantage... SR

Any winch regardless of the ratings will pull harder on the first wrap over the last.

 

[LouieJunior]

My Wallenstein does give two numbers...

On mine, it's 24,000 and change for the first wrap and 9,000 for the last...

I REALLY like that first big number, because it's what get's the load going! Another thing, you usually don't start out on the first wrap, so having a bigger number with a half loaded drum is a big advantage...

SR

I find it hard to believe you loose 62% from beginning to end. Is this correct? I notice a difference but nothing like this.

 

[Citydude]

To answer your question, yes it will work. For reference, I have a 351 that I use on a 19 horsepower PTO. It works flawlessly.

 

[motownbrowne]

I find it hard to believe you loose 62% from beginning to end. Is this correct? I notice a difference but nothing like this.

I was thinking about this also. Not so much the percentage loss, but the very large first number that Rob cited. I looked at Wallenstein's info, and I couldn't see anywhere where they said how their winches were rated. Perhaps he could elaborate?

 

[Gordon Gould]

I find it hard to believe you loose 62% from beginning to end. Is this correct? I notice a difference but nothing like this.

It works like a lever. Say you have 6000 ft-lbs of torque to turn the drum. If the empty drum has a 6" diameter The lever arm that the 6000 ft-lbs has to turn in order to pull the cable is 3" or the radius of the empty drum which is 0.25 ft.

6000 ft-lbs @ 0.25 ft gives 24000 lbs pull. ( 6000 ft-lbs/0.25 ft = 24000 lbs ).

Now if you fill the drum with 3/4" cable to a diameter of 16 inches the lever arm that the 6000 ft-lbs has to turn is now 8 inches or 0.66 feet. I effective radius has increased from 3" to 8" by loading it with cable.

6000 ft-lbs @0.66 ft gives 9000 lbs pull. ( 6000 ft-lbs / 0.66 lbs = 9090 lbs )

The bigger the diameter of the drum the less pull.

If you like math hope this helps

gg

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I was thinking about this also. Not so much the percentage loss, but the very large first number that Rob cited. I looked at Wallenstein's info, and I couldn't see anywhere where they said how their winches were rated. Perhaps he could elaborate?

It's clearly printed, right in my owners manual....

SR

 

[motownbrowne]

It's clearly printed, right in my owners manual....

SR

Alright. You said earlier that the they rate their winches by how much they can pull with a full drum, and that that was how all manufacturers should do it. So you are saying that the 11,000 lbs of pull that the FX110 lists (for example) is the full drum rating? But if that is the case, wouldn't Wallenstein want to mention that say, on their website, or in their catalog. You say your winch has 24,000 lbs of pull. Farmi doesn't have anything close to that. How come they don't mention that in their literature.

I'm not trying to be rude. Honestly, though I'm skeptical of the numbers you mention. That said if they are in fact correct, I'd love to know that so I could recommend their product to people looking for a winch.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I'm just telling you what I read in my manual, and I'm sure Wallenstein said someplace (maybe in their you tube ?) that they are rated on the last wrap, JUST LIKE IT says in my manual...

OK, I learned a LONG time ago, IF some one "doesn't" want to believe something, they won't, no matter what you may say, or proof given... lol They will just say you are mistaken, or the info is faulty or even someone is lying, so I really don't care if you believe me or not. lol (you could call them your self and ask)

BUT, I just dug my manual out, and it states...

Bare drum pull (first wrap) 24,130 lbs.

Max full drum pull (last wrap) 7,963 lbs.

There you have it... SO, is it a miss print OR are they lying? Or? lol

SR

 

[Jim Timber]

They changed their numbers on the latest rendition of the line. I don't think they changed their gearing. I don't even think they change gearing for the different pull ratings, only how much pressure is applied to the clutch. I think it'd be interesting to see if the cam plate is different with the different models, so there's more range of pressure on the bigger units vs the smaller ones?

I can't pull my rope hard enough to put a load on my tractor at idle with my FX85. When it was set from the factory, it would slip the clutch and the load would stall out. When I took all the slop out of the mechanism to where it just barely doesn't creep the line (I backed it off 1/4 turn from creeping on the set screws), now it'll pull my tractor on the last wrap. That's 7100# on the last wrap with the blade down (but the ground was dry and I didn't get a good bite). Wait a minute? My winch is only rated for 8500# on the first wrap. Hmmmm something's odd here.

As delivered, my wally was a disappointment. When I tuned it up it's strong enough to be scary. I had a deep understanding of how these winches were built before ever deciding to buy one, so when mine didn't pull hard enough, I knew something was off.

Other than needing to spend a couple minutes fiddling with the clutch adjustment, mine's been a joy to use. I was pulling a whole basswood top through the understory when I starting pulling my tractor instead. That tree was 22" DBH and the top log was still over 18" when severed from the crown.

 

[motownbrowne]

I'm just telling you what I read in my manual, and I'm sure Wallenstein said someplace (maybe in their you tube ?) that they are rated on the last wrap, JUST LIKE IT says in my manual...

OK, I learned a LONG time ago, IF some one "doesn't" want to believe something, they won't, no matter what you may say, or proof given... lol They will just say you are mistaken, or the info is faulty or even someone is lying, so I really don't care if you believe me or not. lol (you could call them your self and ask)

BUT, I just dug my manual out, and it states...

Bare drum pull (first wrap) 24,130 lbs.

Max full drum pull (last wrap) 7,963 lbs.

There you have it... SO, is it a miss print OR are they lying? Or? lol

SR

Man, come on. I was totally polite about being skeptical. I never said I didn't believe you. I certainly never said you were lying. And I know that you don't care if I believe you or not. No need to take it personally that someone is asking you to back up what you say. This forum is here for us to learn. Personal pettiness is counterproductive.

Regarding your numbers: I'm sorry if you think I'm being bothersome. If you don't feel like convincing me, then don't and leave it at that. I've now downloaded Wallenstein's complete catalog as well as the owner's manuals for their FX 65,90, and 120 winches. There is no mention of a full drum pull rating that I could see. What model do you have? Am I saying it's a typo? No. Is it a possibility? Yes. Or perhaps that's how they used to rate their winches, but now they switched to the industry standard.

Wishing you the best, and happy cutting, Ryan.

 

[motownbrowne]

They changed their numbers on the latest rendition of the line. I don't think they changed their gearing. I don't even think they change gearing for the different pull ratings, only how much pressure is applied to the clutch. I think it'd be interesting to see if the cam plate is different with the different models, so there's more range of pressure on the bigger units vs the smaller ones?

I can't pull my rope hard enough to put a load on my tractor at idle with my FX85. When it was set from the factory, it would slip the clutch and the load would stall out. When I took all the slop out of the mechanism to where it just barely doesn't creep the line (I backed it off 1/4 turn from creeping on the set screws), now it'll pull my tractor on the last wrap. That's 7100# on the last wrap with the blade down (but the ground was dry and I didn't get a good bite). Wait a minute? My winch is only rated for 8500# on the first wrap. Hmmmm something's odd here.

This seems to be part of the answer to Rob and my debacle. I will ask, though about your evaluation of it pulling 7100# on the last wrap. You say it'll pull your tractor around on the last wrap, but just because that's the weight of the machine doesn't mean that's how much line pull it will take to move the machine. There's just too many variables such as blade bite (which you mention) number of braking wheels, what kind of tires, with how much pressure, etc. Unfortunately without a pulling scale of some type, you can't tell how much pull you're producing, unless someone's got a formula I don't know about.