3 pt Logging Winch Advice

[Jim Timber]

The old manuals had different data in them. Whether or not it was accurate, or if it's accurate today is certainly questionable. What one is rated at and what it pulls at can be vastly different, but as long as it meets the rated claim, then anything over that is quite acceptable from marketing law's perspective.

Since these winches usually come with a series 4 PTO shaft, I don't think they're capable of delivering the full power of even my 58 PTO horsepower. I twisted a series 4 inner shaft 120 degrees with my stump grinder, and that would at least load the engine. Much as drawbar power is only as good as the traction you can provide it; I don't think having a 10,000# winch is going to do anything more than a 6,000# winch if that's all the force you can hold it back with.

 

[Jim Timber]

This seems to be part of the answer to Rob and my debacle. I will ask, though about your evaluation of it pulling 7100# on the last wrap. You say it'll pull your tractor around on the last wrap, but just because that's the weight of the machine doesn't mean that's how much line pull it will take to move the machine. There's just too many variables such as blade bite (which you mention) number of braking wheels, what kind of tires, with how much pressure, etc. Unfortunately without a pulling scale of some type, you can't tell how much pull you're producing, unless someone's got a formula I don't know about.

All of these winches are rated for pulling force on flat ground. What the actual strain on the winch or resistance of the load is remains in question. They're not rated for vertical pull, which would a least bring gravity's constant into the parameters. I don't blame them for avoiding using a vertical pull rating, since they're certainly not meant to be used to lift with.

 

[Deerherd]

The Wallenstein winches are rated at the bare drum pull, my FX140 will pull 14053 on a bare drum but drops to 4733 on a full drum. It's a fantastic tool and would buy another if anything ever happened to the one I have. Here's a page from the manual showing bare and full pulling rates for the different models.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well, you rarely pull on the first wrap (I think I've done it twice) and if you are on the last wrap, you probably won't be pulling, just for the reason you are so close, you will probably just hook it direct and go....

SO, what does that leave you?? For me, I want a BIG number for the first few wraps as getting the load started is always the hardest pull... I want big numbers when the drum is just under or half full, as that's where you do most of the pulling from.

Now, the only thing I posted in earlier post that wasn't accurate is, the last wrap on my line in pull is just under 8K, not 9K that I stated... The first wrap of 24K + is accurate per my manual...

Here's the thing, my series of Wallenstein's come with 165' of wire rope on them, but I think they will hold more, (as per my manual) so when is the last wrap?? 165' on the drum OR when the drum is full??

Do I really care? Not really, as my Wallenstein winch is a brute of a horse now, and 165' is enough rope for everything I'm doing with it... It will pull so hard it will lift my 70hp loader tractor's front end right off the ground! The only time that has happen is, when my helper hooked to the wrong blown over tree, he hooked to the one that he had not sawn off yet! But it shows just how powerful that winch is...

I say, get more winch than you think you will need and get a winch that has BIG numbers on AT LEAST to a half full drum, so you have good load starting power.

As for the different brands of winches... I would NOT buy a winch without a top screen, I wouldn't buy a hydraulic powered winch and I would NOT buy any winch that I can't easily use it from either side of the winch or from the tractor seat! I don't want synthetic rope on it either! I wouldn't buy one without a hitch to hook wagons to either...

Some things I like on my winch are... The ratchet brake, I like it over a "band" brake. I like the fact that the hitch is "adjustable" up and down, as is the lower snatch block. And you can easily put the cable in or out of the lower snatch block. I like that it has a loop to put a chainsaw in and a couple places to hold chain chokers...

Over all, I'm happy with the winch I have, I consider it one of my "best buys"...

SR

 

[Jim Timber]

Wallenstein uses a band brake to keep the spool from unwinding when you're not pulling on the line. They have an arm that's released when you pull tension and reengages when you let it go slack again. There's another cogged brake to hold a load. IIRC some of the European models require you to release the ratchet brake manually, and that's just plain annoying. Pulling it when you need it is a much better system. Hearing that clacking all day would drive me nuts.

Pulling the basswood top I had more force than chaining would've generated given the tractor slipped with the blade down too. Gotta choose your battles, and I was really mainly seeing if the winch would move it or the tractor. I left the top there for deer food and visual screen. When it's time to put the American plums in, I'll limb it a bit to unlock it's purchase and drag it out.

 

[motownbrowne]

The Wallenstein winches are rated at the bare drum pull, my FX140 will pull 14053 on a bare drum but drops to 4733 on a full drum. It's a fantastic tool and would buy another if anything ever happened to the one I have. Here's a page from the manual showing bare and full pulling rates for the different models.

View attachment 452598

Awesome data deerherd! Thanks for posting that.

Rob, it appears that Wallenstein no longer rates their pulling capacity of their winches by the "full drum" number. If your model is rated this way, that's great, but since they no longer do it that way, it's not relevant to new shoppers. Also if interest is that apparently they changed their overall pulling power deerherd's got the biggest one they make, but his is still rated at something like 10,000# less line pull than what your manual states. So.. I guess they don't make them like they used to. Either that, or there is a typo somewhere... As you said, though: it doesn't matter. They're great tools to have around.

 

[4570Man]

I don't like the way Farmi rates their winches... My winch is a Wallenstein brand winch, and it's rated on the LAST wrap on the drum, as they all should be! SR

That isn't a completely fair rating either. This would only be fair if all brands came with the same size and length of cable.

 

[peabody]

Just ? What exactly is the purpose of a three point hitch winch?
I assume you're pulling something.
Isent that what the tractor itself is for ?

 

[motownbrowne]

That isn't a completely fair rating either. This would only be fair if all brands came with the same size and length of cable.

We just went around and around with this. It's a fine rating, just isn't apples to apples necessarily. Furthermore, they no longer rate them that way.

 

[motownbrowne]

Just ? What exactly is the purpose of a three point hitch winch?
I assume you're pulling something.
Isent that what the tractor itself is for ?

Google it. It's darn near the best arrangement I own. You can reach places no tractor could go (across a swamp, into a ravine, into thick brush, and pull out logs to where you can get them with the tractor. Once you've got them, you can hitch them up, lift the butt end and drive to where you want them. The winch, by design makes this and many other parts of moving logs safer.

 

[Deerherd]

That isn't a completely fair rating either. This would only be fair if all brands came with the same size and length of cable.

Cables are sized to the load of the winch and go from 5/16" to 1/2" which is the same for all manufacturers. I have used Farmi, Uniforest and Wallenstein winches and honestly feel they all make a good product. I wouldn't get hung up too much on rated pulls. You buy one sized for your tractor and you will be pleasantly surprised on what it can do. All of them can pull enough weight to get you in trouble, so be careful. Once you own a logging winch you will wonder how you ever did without!

 

[peabody]

Google it. It's darn near the best arrangement I own. You can reach places no tractor could go (across a swamp, into a ravine, into thick brush, and pull out logs to where you can get them with the tractor. Once you've got them, you can hitch them up, lift the butt end and drive to where you want them. The winch, by design makes this and many other parts of moving logs safer.

Ok... understanding.
We have a john deere skidder.
100hp 4x4 and huge winch.
Your basically doing the same thing.
Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[motownbrowne]

Ok... understanding.
We have a john deere skidder.
100hp 4x4 and huge winch.
Your basically doing the same thing.
Thank you for clearing that up.

Yeah, this attachment (which is what i meant to say instead of arrangement) makes a tractor into a miniature skidder. They're popular in the Scandinavian countries, where logging is often done by small property owners using farm tractors during the off season. We'll never be able to keep up with a big Deere skidder like yours, but they're darned handy to have around, and a utility or compact utility tractor can move a lot of wood with one.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Rob, it appears that Wallenstein no longer rates their pulling capacity of their winches by the "full drum" number.

I see that...

The one thing that will change the pulling power that hasn't been mentioned is, the size of the empty drum. (diameter AND width) That could be part of the different readings between all of these winches.

Personally, I like the FX series of Wallenstein winches better than the new series, and knowing what I know now, IF I was in need of a new winch for what "I" do, I'd probably look for an NOS FX model first, as the new series hasn't been out all that long...

I looked at most of the other brands before I bought my winch and I'm glad I bought the winch that I did... Wallenstein build a GREAT well designed winch...

SR

 

[joefromga]

A snatch block is amazing and stronger and safer. Also winch rope as compared to steel cable is amazing stuff. Stronger, doesn't rust, last longer, weighs nothing, won't rip your skin off due to unraveling, and won't cut your head off if it snaps.


14,900 lbs for this one




Check into it. UTV Winch Line | Synthetic Winch Rope | Superline 1/4"

 

[Sawyer Rob]

From what I've seen, on skidding winches, the synthetic rope get's damaged easier in the woods and breaks down with age, do to the sun degrading it.

I've seen several post of guys unhappy with how fast snags and "rubbing" destroys synthetic rope...

Make mine steel pleaseee!

SR

 

[Jim Timber]

Dyneema has a lot of promise. Doesn't kink, has high abrasion resistance, UV stabilized, and you gotta love the lack of weight.

 

[Jim Timber]

They're even making chains out of it now.

 

[newbury]

Google it. It's darn near the best arrangement I own. You can reach places no tractor could go (across a swamp, into a ravine, into thick brush, and pull out logs to where you can get them with the tractor. Once you've got them, you can hitch them up, lift the butt end and drive to where you want them. The winch, by design makes this and many other parts of moving logs safer.

For you who own winches and grapples - Which would you get first if your budget only allowed one?
/edit - sorry grapple on the FEL

 

[Citydude]

For you who own winches and grapples - Which would you get first if your budget only allowed one?

Grapple. My winch came second.