10/2 wire question

[ampa]

Hmmmm not too sure if I post this in this section....but since it still refers to gettin' my Lincoln up and runnin'.....I guess it should be okay....now the question !....I bought 10/2 wire......and it turns out to be 230 volts.....a red a black and the bare copper.....which is fine for my 30 amp breaker...I just curious do I treat the red or the black as the neutral....the bare copper to inside the panel box...to the receptical.....I didn't realize the difference till I peeled back the tough insulation...I hate working with high voltage....but in a sense I'm not....just the same as wiring a couple or so wall recepticals to the hydro panel....which I've done lots of times....mind you I shut the mains off and double check my work to make quite sure everything is hooked up proper before switching the main back on....I had installed another adittional smaller 2 breaker 230 volt panel that I used only for 110 volt in my old 32' trailer....I was getting a little tingle from the receptical...decieded to call a buddy that was a licenced electrician to check it out....told I done an okay job...just didn't tighten the bare ground enough....and it was bleedin' through a bit....after that no more tingles.....I always check and retighten all my connections after that ordeal....thanks in advance the correct advice I'm needin'.....take care.....Ampa.....

 

[Fahmahdave]

Ampa,
The black and red are both "hot" wires. Neither goes to neutral. They both go onto seperate screws on your double pole breaker. The bare then goes to the ground bar. Ideally you would get 10/3 wire (black/red/white/and a bare), the white would then be a neutral.

 

[Carl_NH]

Get a 30 amp double pole breaker 230V, wire the red and black to the breaker terminals and the bare wire goes to the ground terminals in the breaker box. (make sure you have the break off when you are wiring into the panel!)

If your welder has a 4 wire connection and plug, then you need to get 10-3 which will have a red, black and white, and a ground wire. In this case the white and the bare go to the ground terminal in the breaker box. The white is the "neutral".

If this seems difficult or not clear then I suggest you might want to "phone your friend" the electrician.

 

[AlbertaDan]

Fahmadave is right. You should get a 10/3 wire. With out the neutral your Lincoln may not run righht. The control circuit may require the neutral to operate. Not worth the expense to have it fixed if you blow the controls. I am an a electrician and speak from experience.

I do have a question...when you say you peeled the tough insulation back it almost sounds like you are using a SOW cable. If htis is true it is not allowed in permanent construction...at least here in Canada it's not. Your jurissiction may be different.

 

[ampa]

I just went down the basement as I have the panel cover removed....so I'm gonna' answer my own question and do it in this order.... also as it's gonna' be a 30 amp breaker I think it be best to choose the red as the + feed and treat the black as the neutral/white...... and the bare copper as all the other.... to the panel grounding studs.....yes and I'll check that all connections are secure....my lady has accidents like leavin' rags or such in the laundry tube and gettin' water all over the place when the washer goes through it's spin and rinse cycles.....anyhow if I'm doin' something wrong please let me know for sure....I'd hate anything to happen to my lady.....only wish she would check the tub before leaving it....She's older than me....she hates me double checkin' everything she does...but I'll just have explain the dangers...and she should understand....for me a tingle is a tingle...but I guess standin' in water and touching this 30 amp receptical...would be an no no.....Ampa

 

[aczlan]

In a 120v system Black is always hot.
Red is also used for hot (or switched hot), but Black is ALWAYS hot.
I would use red (with a piece of white tape on each end to mark it) for neutral and black for hot

For the other posters: He is setting up a heavy 120v circuit for a 120v welder.

Aaron Z

 

[Diamondpilot]

I just went down the basement as I have the panel cover removed....so I'm gonna' answer my own question and do it in this order.... also as it's gonna' be a 30 amp breaker I think it be best to choose the red as the + feed and treat the black as the neutral/white...... and the bare copper as all the other.... to the panel grounding studs.....yes and I'll check that all connections are secure....my lady has accidents like leavin' rags or such in the laundry tube and gettin' water all over the place when the washer goes through it's spin and rinse cycles.....anyhow if I'm doin' something wrong please let me know for sure....I'd hate anything to happen to my lady.....only wish she would check the tub before leaving it....She's older than me....she hates me double checkin' everything she does...but I'll just have explain the dangers...and she should understand....for me a tingle is a tingle...but I guess standin' in water and touching this 30 amp receptical...would be an no no.....Ampa

You are way off. Stop and get a electrician. Really, you are going to hurt yourself or damage your welder.

For a 230 volt system you need a 2 hots and a common/ground. In your case your 2 hots would be red and black. Your common/ground is the bare wire.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

In a 120v system Black is always hot.
Red is also used for hot (or switched hot), but Black is ALWAYS hot.
I would use red (with a piece of white tape on each end to mark it) for neutral and black for hot

For the other posters: He is setting up a heavy 120v circuit for a 120v welder.

Aaron Z

Ok, its 120 volt. Then do as Aaron Z said. Black is hot, make Red neutral, and bare ground. Like Aaron said mark the red with some white electrical tape on each end.

Chris

 

[aczlan]

Ok, its 120 volt. Then do as Aaron Z said. Black is hot, make Red neutral, and bare ground. Like Aaron said mark the red with some white electrical tape on each end.

I am assuming that this is for the welder referenced in this thread: Linclon 125 DC 115 volt is tripping the breaker. If my assumption is incorrect and you are working with 220V, remember that Black and Red should both be hot, you probably need the 4th wire for neutral and I would recommend that you call your electrician friend to have him at least watch you do this.

Aaron Z

 

[hr3]

ampa :thumbsup: I hope you are kidding and this is a joke...:confused2:

 

[20 20]

Don't mix wires it just creates headaches down the road. A black red copper wire is used for 240V both black and red being hot copper going to the box. If your going to only be running a 120V then get the proper wire so NO ONE gets confused down the road and gets hurt, black white and copper.

 

[ampa]

No I'm not jokin'....I'm settin' up a 110 volt receptical...and I've got a 50' 10/3 extra heavy duty extention.... I bought my 110 volt Lincoln last year...if I had of known it was rated to run off 110 volt usin' a 20 amp service I would have passed on it....but now I guess it's mine.....the electrical panel is at the front of this rented house....and 230 volts would not be an option unless this place had a garage with it's own electrical 230 volt panel....I'd be out of my mind to pay to put up a garage for a property that wasn't mine...to do a little welding....I'm way too old to buy a house.....so the only other option is to install a 30 amp breaker instead of a 20 amp on it's own single one plug circuit...for which I have bought....including the 10/2 2' piece from the panel to the single heavy duty round plug which I'll lable mig welder....to have the normal 3 wire b+-w and ground it's only supplied with 14 gauge as far as I know...the wire I need for this 30 amp breaker is for 230 volt....but like some have said use the black and mark the red with white tape....for which I'm gonna' do....I'm using the correct material it's just that I'm using the heavy stuff to handle the extra amps....believe me the extention cord may be 50' but it's as thick as the dryer cable....the end plugs are 15 amp type but once again these huge as well...I think it's meant for the construction trade....and I don't think it would be used on a 15 amp system.....so I'm so sorry if I'm confusing everyone.....I thought I had explained before what I was doin' and why....but askin' this silly question about wire color has put me back to where I was at first.....so guys go easy on me I'm tryin' to do things proper....when I had my trailer I had 115/230 volts and I wired my shed for I think at that time to use my table saws etc and I used one of the 20 amp breakers...so I didn't trip the breaker....worked fine no problems at all....I even worked when ever I needed to........anyhow guys take in what and why I'm doin' it......I do appreciate all comments....where ther's a will there's a way......oh by the way should I just leave the short section of 14/3 usin this 30 amp breaker.....or just return the 30amp and get a 20 amp.....thanks.......Ampa

 

[sjb]

The national electric code allows the use of the wrong color wire as long as you mark it with the correct color on both ends.

As previously mentioned, wrap some white electrical tape around the red wire and your good to go.

It's done all the time, that's the main reason that electrical tape comes in different colors.

 

[greystone]

wow. ok i think your wiring a 110v 30amp plug for a lincon wire feed welder.
1 you are using the wrong wire.
2 you mentioned water, you should be at least 3 feet away from that area
or it should be ground faulted.
3 please get an electrician, even simple stuff can be dangerous.

mike

 

[Diamondpilot]

wow. ok i think your wiring a 110v 30amp plug for a lincon wire feed welder.
1 you are using the wrong wire.
2 you mentioned water, you should be at least 3 feet away from that area
or it should be ground faulted.
3 please get an electrician, even simple stuff can be dangerous.

mike

I agree. He is lost and will end up getting hurt. Call in a electrician. You will be money ahead over the hospital bill or funeral.

Chris

 

[Transit]

Yep, ampa is all over the map. 230 volts@ 50 amps, then 120 @ 30 amps, ground and neutrals all mixed up. Call a pro and be safe.

 

[gwdixon]

Is everyone sure this guy is legit?? He doesn't seem to respond to reasonable suggestions and insists on taking steps that are plain wrong or at the least - dangerous as possible.:confused2:

Maybe he is a professional electrician that enjoys pulling people's chain.

 

[CurlyDave]

Most places that I buy wire from will accept returns.

On a piece as long as you have, if you neatly cut off the few inches that you stripped, they will probably take it back and exchange for the correct wire...

 

[Hardscrabbble]

AMPA,
I am not attempting to be critical here but the questions you are asking indicate to me that you probably should just hire an electrician to wire up your welder. Just be safe!

 

[Steve_Miller]

If you want to do this legally it's going to cost you more. If you want to get up and running your on the right track, but here are some things to consider: (in Canada at least and I could be wrong on a couple of these)

1. If your wire is not consealed in the wall it will have to be mechanically (conduit,BX or Teck, etc..) protected if located in an unfinished area.

2. I'm pretty sure you can't wire a regular 15 amp outlet on a 30amp circuit, you will need the proper plug configuration as a 15amp outlet is not designed to carry that type of current.

3. If this outlet is in what is considered a damp location or outdoors, it has to have ground fault protection (at least on a 15 amp circuit, on anything larger I'm not clear on this).

4. As before wire colors can be marked with tape to indicate proper color.

5. If your welder has a standard household 120 volt plug end on it then that is legally all you can feed it with, whether it be the regular 15 amp or the 'T' type combo which can be 15/20amp which is now standard on kitchen counter outlets.

Just for reference: I'm no angel as I just had my insurance inspector show up yesterday unexpectedly and got caught using 12/3 SOW cable to feed a construction heater I put in, wired into my panel in my garage. I used the proper plug but should have knew better on the wire even though it is consealed through the back of some cupboards. The heater cord itself is only #12 wire but has a 30amp plug end on it. It draws 19.7 amps so I protected it with a 30amp breaker as a 20 would be tripping all the time. It's all I had that day and I got lazy and left it that way. Stupid, yes but I'm glad he picked up on it as I had really forgotten about the wire size. It will be changed this weekend. The only other thing is why CSA/UL allows these wire size descrepancies unless the cord is some finer wound wire with a slightly higher current carrying capacity than regular #12 wire.

Steve