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Newbury, I left a link for you in my post. Did you not see it? That was another reference to the tractor market.

Why didn't you support my attempts to steer the conversation back to the state of the tractor market several posts ago? https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/market-watch.467904/post-6664788 https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/new-tractor-sales-are-in-the-tank.466661/post-6664804

😂

That's what I have been saying about free financing. It's not free.

One of the many reasons you have to diversify your investments if you can. It was a reality that my father struggled to live through for a while. Boy those were some hard learning years for the both of us.

I just found out the local Massey Ferguson dealer bit the dust and is no longer in business. Can't say I'm too surprised. There were signs of major cracks that I picked up early on. I remember that dealer telling me they were selling the heck out of those tractors yet they had a yard full of...

I will add in if you have to use fear mongering or sales gimmicks to sell your product then it's a hard sale and not something people really want.

The real question that no one thinks to ask is why the dealers would trade gold for U.S dollars if the paper currency is going to be worthless? Oooh that just destroyed Robert Kiyosaki and all the gold fear mongers!

Interesting idea :unsure:

Speaking of Market Watch, I am behind the eight ball here fellas. My apologies. Here is the Quarter 3 Compact Tractor Sales Report https://www.aem.org/AEM/media/docs/Statistics/US-Month-Ag-Report-9-2023.pdf Sales for 2WD under 40 hp tractors finished Q3 2023 down in the double digits as has...

Well said.

Kind of how it is with buying tractors.

Fixed income investments like treasuries and CD's are not aimed at people with 10k to invest. They are for people who have hundreds of thousands to millions to invest. It's more of a preservation tool than a growth tool.

I would suggest looking at long term treasuries when the rates top out.

Agreed!

I have been asking myself the same question here lately. I don't know if I would have really paid much attention to it or taken it seriously when I was back in school. The older I become the more I become a believer in the best education is the one you give yourself. Whenever something is spoon...

This is the best question I have ever seen someone post in this section since I became a member. This is what every member here should be asking including myself!

Why not a money market? Just asking.

That I am and a proud one.

At least your man enough to admit it. Something I don't see with other voters.

I am nothing like the "You Tubers" you speak of and I take quite a bit of offense at what you just said.

Thanks for sharing guys (y)

Yet they still expect you to pay them a commission for writing up the order. Tell me where the logic is in that?

Yeah I sure hate Kubota that's why I took two days out of my busy schedule last week to go down there and try them out.

Well at least there is a possible work around.

I'm surprised to discover that there are more tractors on the market with this feature and it can't be disengaged. This definitely slipped past me in all my research. This underscores the importance of always demoing a machine before committing to purchasing it. The only way I could see them...

The first issue for me is control. Not having the ability to separate engine RPM from pedal travel distance is is a reduction in control. There are scenarios where I am boxed into a tight space and want the ability to finesse my way around the obstacles without having to be concerned about the...

Thanks for the feedback.

I appreciate the feedback. Eric, do you have the ability to disengage the mechanically-linked throttle on your Branson?

Yeah, that was the same experience I got from it. Scotty has always been right about it.

So your tractor has this too?

Slim you asked me a question and I provided you an answer to it. If it's such a "non-event" then why did you ask me? Ok, that makes sense. When I was doing research a while back that was how it was explained to me. However, I think it's fair to say that both scenarios would be an appropriate...

I'm surprised you gentleman are asking me what is wrong with a tractor that is permanently stuck in Auto Throttle. But since you asked with sincerity I will explain. Auto Throttle was originally designed as a premium feature for transport scenarios such as quickly traveling from one side of a...

After looking at all of Kubota's compact models I think that is the only one they ever got right.

OMG that's even worse! 🤦‍♂️ Whoever is running the engineering department at Kubota for mid size compacts should be fired! That is the most incredibly dumb thing I have ever seen a manufacturer do.

I went down to take a look at the new Kubota LX4020 yesterday at my local dealer but it seems that Kubota has screwed up again. As soon as I started the test drive the tractor was stuck in Auto throttle mode and couldn't get out of it. I notified the sales person about it but he couldn't get it...

😂

I stumbled across this video this morning and decided to share it as a great example of what not to do. This is an example of picking the wrong tool for the job. This guy wasted more time and money using this tractor to do land clearing when he could have easily hired the job out to a guy with a...

I recently paid a visit to my local dealer to find out what type of pricing they had going on tractors. During my conversation with him he tried to make me believe that he doesn't have enough inventory when his yard is filled to the brim and has been since last year. His pricing was just as...

Tractors like any other good sold in a market economy are not immune to supply and demand. If the demand drops sharp enough for long enough sales incentives in the form of discounts will be coming. My local dealer has just started to grow a brain and figure this out although he has a long way to...

Of course because it's of no concern when they have tax payer money to fund all of it. Buying equipment for municipalities is the equivalent to buying pencils and erasers to us.

It depended on where you were in the country. Last year down in my market the lots were starting to fill up. By the time this year came rolling around they were filled to the brim.

Haha that's probably true 😄

Agreed. It's going to be even more interesting to watch because the industry's fix-all solution of zero percent financing is not working anymore. Consumers I believe have finally wised up to that.

In case you haven't noticed this is the Buying/Pricing/Comparisons section of the forum. People who are in the market for tractors come here to get information. If you aren't in the market for a new tractor and don't care to know anything about the tractor market then you should visit the...

Interesting :unsure:

Ruff do you know how long that period is before it expires?

Thanks for the report 2mr.

Exactly.

It's amazing how fast things turned with this industry. I remember two years ago the FOMO craze that was going around and the bad advice that was being given out by different tractor groups on FB. They were telling folks to just pay whatever price they were asking because supply was low and no...

The demand dropped off last year and continued on into this year.

😄

New market report just dropped today and sales are continuing to plummet. Sales of below 40hp tractors are down 13% since July of last year. As you will see in this video, the inventory to sales ratio is now exceeding where it was in 2019.

I hope so.

Sand Hills Global, the parent company of Tractor House and Auction Time has finally solved an age old problem that has effected all of us that own equipment. Determining what our equipment is worth with data to back it up. Previously, the only people that had access to this information was...

As many of you already know, my thread 'New Tractor Sales Are Declining' was shut down by the moderators due to political comments that were made so I restarted the thread under a different name titled, 'New Tractor Sales Are In The Tank' which was moved to the Front Porch. The old thread can...

Bingo ^^^ This

Kubota used to offer a 20% discount for cash buyers. Don't know what it is now. It wouldn't surprise me if their cash discounts are negligible right now given where they are in the economic cycle. The industry has been so successful with duping consumers by the free financing that they are...

I hope not!

😂 😂 😂 Yeah it's zero percent after the jacked the price up $6K or $7K! 😂 I have to admit the zero percent financing scheme is effective at deceiving consumers.

This video may be a little off topic but I found it very interesting and it does relate to the tractor market by explaining how inventory can effect dealer choice and pricing of brand they carry. I think it's worth a watch.

You make a solid point. When have these people ever admitted they were wrong?? The answer is never!

It's quite ironic how secretive they are about filming their manufactured goods when they most likely stole the technology from us 😂

Miniaturization seems to be a sign of refinement and progress.

As Mike, pointed out in an earlier video March and April are the compact tractor industry's biggest months of the year. I haven't seen any AEM report for April yet but when I do I will post it.

I'm with the "other party" and I completely agree. The evidence is there but the prosecutions are not.

That's an interesting concept :unsure: But somehow there has to be recompense for the dollars that were loaned or too many dollars would be created and eventually the value of every dollar would be worth nothing and that's the point where it becomes more questions then answers.

Where are you located tactical?

Thanks for the update AB. It seems you are in one of the few markets that still has very strong demand.

I'm backing you up on this post. I think it was well thought out and well communicated. And I also have been wondering the same thing for a long time. For Torvy to say he can't be bothered to explain this is a cop out in my opinion.

The key here is the word "compete". If there is a better offer somewhere else and the bank needs the deposits then they will compromise. I don't see that as being about negotiation as I see it being about awareness of the market conditions. In your scenario the customer has leverage which...

I went to Kubota's website tonight to check prices and it looks like they have raised prices again but lowered the financing costs. They're apparently just playing the shuffle game right now.

That has not been my experience with either banks or tractors.

I'm not catching your drift.

Why would they do that?

Yep 100%

As reported in my thread, my dealer's lot is full to the brim with no sign of moving any units since I last paid a visit to him. He has also increased his advertising 10 fold.

That chick has no talent in my opinion. Her success is more of a lack of awareness of what good music is then anything else. Exactly right! Of course they will except the lot being full doesn't fit the narrative.

This is what erodes the value of our dollar over time thus making our currency worth less and less every year.

Market Report Update: My local dealer has increased his advertising 10 fold and has still not been able to move any units. In fact it looks as though his inventory has increased instead of decreased.

Hmm...this sounds awfully familiar :unsure: Didn't another Orange Brand just introduce a new series of tractors under the exact same name https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/kioti-introduces-new-ck20-and-dk20-series-tractors-301803034.html

Those old Fords never die. They have their picture next to the word reliability in the dictionary.

Point exactly, thanks for sharing.

Hey 50 you probably shouldn't apply for a loader position at this place then 😄

😂.....Yep according to Neil that's about right lmao....

Maybe farmers should run 1986 models. They sure would last longer.

Kubota is definitely price gouging right now.

My thoughts exactly.

I would like to know if that was MSRP or the actual sale price.

This intrigued me so much that I decided to reach out to Neil directly. He told me that he is going to make a follow up video. Out of respect for him, I will let him provide more explanation first before I give the CVF thought/opinion on it.

You wrote: Please explain as I want to make sure I understand you.

Did you actually watch the video?

Or they purposely built them where they would be over capacity so the parts would wear out quicker requiring the owners to bring them in for repair sooner.

Congratulations Torvy, I am excited to hear about your new purchase. I know we all gave you an ear full of our opinions and yet you stayed the course with the TYM. You know it's the right decision when no one can talk you out of it. I look forward to having you as a TYM owner here so you can...

This was found in the comments: Brad Jenkins: "The more weight you put behind the rear axle, the more you take off the front axle." Neil's Response: "Yes, but the amount required to correct it would put the rear axle way over capacity."

This popped up in my YT feed today and I found it quite interesting. The obvious question: Why would a manufacturer build a front axel that is already at capacity before the bucket is even loaded?

I am confident that we will find the balance again.

Guys, I know this probably is unnecessary to say but hear me out anyway. Please do not mention anything about the President or politicians in this thread. This thread was started with the purpose of providing market intelligence to buyers and owners so they know what's going on out there. I...

Thanks Muhammad!

I am asking the same question Scotty. We were all having a great discussion and then I come home and find out the whole thing has been shut down. What was said? Does anybody know?

I understand what your saying and I know there are grey areas at time. I never saw the comment so I can't comment about it at this point. I think it's safe to say that any comment that references the President or politicians is political.

scootr, thanks for posting this thread. I just logged on and saw the thread has been shut down. I apparently didn't see what was said and this happened while I was away today. I have reached out to Mahammad asking to get the comments removed and the thread reopened. I ask all of you if you see a...

Anyone that buys a tractor right now is just asking to be fleeced. It's clear as day now this industry is headed for a major price correction. If consumers can hold off purchasing right now I believe they will be handsomely rewarded.

The big difference here is you pursued it on your own, nobody spoon fed it to you and then promised you a certificate at the end that meant you were qualified. Your qualification came with practice and seat time.

Thanks for the feedback Forge.

No idea who Dilbert is.

I am an estate fiduciary and most of the people I am hiring are degreed adults with many years of experience. I can tell you first hand that I have interviewed many people over the years that had decades of experience in their field and didn't know anything. There are MANY in the work force that...

There are other ways to test for and determine this.

Just for the record, I was not advocating for that. My opinion and long held belief is they can earn it on their own with a computer and an internet connection.

That is changing. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/former-ibm-ceo-ginni-rometty-hiring-based-on-skills-over-degree.html https://fortune.com/2022/11/23/skills-replacing-college-degrees-hiring-linkedin-ceo-ryan-roslansky/

This is very true. With the proliferation and easy access to information now and days college doesn't make sense anymore. Unless they're going to be a doctor, engineer or scientist it's a bad investment. I would even argue that going for a law degree can be obtained on one's own without...

This goes on in many arenas in life. The real estate industry for example is full of these kind of shenanigans.

This is a true statement. There are areas of my life that I have had much more limited choices then others so I can understand that. I have learned along my journey that those are the areas you have to ask and rely on God for his help.

That's right (y)

Hay Dude you have TONS of tractors and equipment. You probably have more farm and Ag equipment then any member here on this whole forum. Can you not make due with what you have until the equipment market gets some price correction?

I get that some of you believe the world is falling apart. There are a lot of problems but that is nothing new. There has always been a lot of problems, the only difference today is we have so much more media coverage and instant communication then we did in years and decades past. However...

Where have you seen these ads?

Powell's medicine hasn't kicked in yet. Wait till he ups the dosage.

Who isn't 🤷‍♂️

Yeah this month and next month will tell the story.

What airbiscuit said ^^^ is correct.

This just popped up in my news feed tonight: According to AEM, "Sales for 2WD sub-40 hp. tractors in February were down 25.6% from 2022, with 8,785 sales this year, and 11,801 last year." You can read the report here: Combine sales up, tractor sales falling back to pre-pandemic levels in February

Those people bought the American dream and I chose not to. The American dream comes with a hefty price tag.

Agreed!

We all have choices to make in life. Those people made theirs just like I made mine and they will have to live with the consequences.

To add to your point the media is lying as usual. The equities industry is looking for any excuse they can find to get Powell to stop raising rates. That's all this boils down to. The banking system is not collapsing, there will not be a financial melt down, it's just a classic case of financial...

Please share a link if you have one.

Please explain

I completely agree with you but two years ago when inflation began to rise significantly why didn't they dispose of their treasury debt holdings?

My experience with him is he wasn't better then my local Kubota dealer. So my thinking is why drive way out of the way to do business with a dealer that hasn't beat the local dealer down the street?

Ironically that dealer is in my area. I went out to see him last year.

I just built a quote for a Kubota L3902 with a loader. Nearly $33K

Take the financing away and no more buying.

I personally do not understand why they purchased low interest rate debt to begin with. But even more complexing is why they held onto it instead of selling it off when inflation began to rise.

Oh you're not? Gee you could of fooled me.

Willy I am very sorry to hear this. I send you my condolences.

Fat chance of that happening.

IndyJay, I think we have a Topper in the house 😂

You have taken a loss as everyone else has. Maybe not as much as others but your equity holdings have lost some value.

Yeah things are way out of hand right now. I appreciate you alerting the community to this.

Poster if you're wise you're going to sit this out until this industry receives a very much needed price correction.

They're both true haha

Snob long time no see. How are you? Cryptocurrency demonstrated that a currency with no regulation is not possible do to fraud and greed. The other angle of it is the Central Banking system has no intention of giving up control. If anything, a digital currency is headed towards a world currency...

Your market must be the exception because 99.9% of people where I live use their debit and credit cards.

Yikes!

When was the last time you saw someone paying cash?

Everyone who is invested in equities right now has lost money. Many have lost 20% or more. There are millions of retirees that are not able to retire now because of the change in market cycle. There is no "magic" investment profiles that can change that. Define stable cash-oriented investments...

Most of it is digital already.

What a lot of people don't realize about the money managers on Wall Street is their compensation is not strictly tied to the performance and growth of a stock. They are paid fees for managing other peoples capital regardless of whether the stocks perform well or not. And if you sit down and do...

That's the problem with the whole 401K retirement system/plan. It's a toss up if the market cycle is in your favor or not the last time you clock out to go home.

It will be a big indicator of consumer sentiment. The tractor market can tell you a lot about what's happening with the economy.

They definitely are. They're watching the market like a hawk but so am I ;)

Yet demand is still strong and the economy is humming along.

They're not low anymore. I think that era is gone.

He is a Kubota dealer.

Not looking, waiting.

I drove by my local dealer this morning to take a look at his inventory. Nothing looks like it has moved. I will continue to make periodic updates about my local market as we progress into spring.

You must be referring to JD because most of the Kubota franchisees are mom and pop. Torvy I don't have any idea what your referencing.

Buy a Massey, it's a just rebadged Iseki.

In the early to mid '90s 9% was considered a good mortgage rate. As finn said, this 3% mortgage rate business has been an aberration and also bad policy in my opinion. It did nothing but create another housing bubble. Keeping interest rates that low for as long as they did threw many things out...

This is a major value that people like you and Tim are bringing to consumers who want to know the differences. I think we will only see more of this type of feedback as time goes on. Thanks for the insights Ralph.

I have to hand it to you RD that was a very clever idea on your part and makes a lot of sense given how you presented it.

That's exactly why I shared it. To show that price cuts are coming.

Powell admitted yesterday to Senator Kennedy that he is not only trying to stop inflation but he's also trying to cause disinflation.

I'm posting this here as I find it relevant to this discussion. The automakers believe they have found the "sweet-spot" for supply versus demand. I think their whole industry is about to get turned upside down because of the cost of financing is going way up. When the cost of borrowing goes up...

I thought I would share Mike's perspective on this.

I shared a video a few days ago that received mixed responses from members here. Some of the members expressed their dissatisfaction with me about the way Tim went about expressing his concerns regarding rebranded tractors and their long term parts support. I have been a member of this site for...

When the manufactures start rolling out the rebates. Do you really need it or want it?

OP you're not comparing apples to apples here. What is it that you want? A cab, bigger frame size, more weight? I think you need to go back to the drawing board and determine what you're trying to accomplish. None of us can visit your property and there are infinite amounts of variables involved...

If this is about a cab OP can opt for a smaller cab tractor such as the LX4020. Don't know what his budget is...

For 10 acres the 5240 is more tractor then you need. What I hear, is your excitement for the bells and whistles of it, there was no mention of it's utility specs. However, there will not be any small monthly payment for a new tractor until there is a market price correction which I anticipate is...

Tim was trying to communicate the long term parts support risks that can accompany rebranded tractors. Albeit, I think he could have done more due diligence before stating his concern as the owners of those tractor brands are going to expect some smoking guns to back up his opinion.

That's not what Tim was saying.

Mahindra refused to talk to them, that's on Mahindra.

Tim never stated to stay away from Mahindra. That's putting words in his mouth. He was raising awareness that rebranding in general can cause parts availability issues as the years go by.

Yeah he's going to have to sit this out. With where interest rates are headed he has bought himself a new house.

You also have a later model tractor then the OP.

Truer words have never been spoken.

2016 was about the time everything moved to tier 4 and almost every manufacturer was having issues with emissions. I call that the lost era of compact tractors.

What I really hear you two are doing is a value add/rehab buy in real estate language. You take a B or C tractor and make the necessary repairs and turn it into a B+ or A- quality tractor.

What's the problem with your Workmaster? It regens all the time and you can't get any work done?

This ^^^ is the answer.

I hate to say it but you can not trust what these machinery dealers say. I have caught nearly all of them in a lie one time or another down here in my neck of the woods.

The market for used tractors is undergoing a major correction right now. A lot of these loco prices are people just testing the market to see where the top of it is.

Looks like I've ruffled some LS feathers again...

Scotty, what is there to think about?

All the owners didn't sue. Most were strung along by their dealers to believe there would be a fix. The ones that were smart lawyered up and got buy backs. If you want to forfeit your rights to some corporation have at it pal.

You mean unlikely

You better get to work then 😄

Agreed! Those Fords have proven to outlast time itself. That was one product the Japanese never beat us on in terms of reliability.

Pay, that would be a great upload to share with the community.

Scotty, you know that is not going to over ride a manufacturer's warranty agreement.

Of course they won't, they will sue for a buy back. 😂 You clearly don't have a clue about arbitration.

Everything you say here is legitimate and true. I agree 100%. However, the main difference here between Kubota and Kioti is consumers had the ability to bring a lawsuit against Kubota. They don't have that ability under Kioti's warranty terms.

Hey Scotty, forced arbitration is a clause that is often times sneaked into a warranty that forces the consumer to go to an arbitrator/mediator of the manufacturers choosing when there is a breech of warranty. This means the consumer is can not bring a claim against them in state court which is...

It's true that he is on team green but I can say from having conversations with him over the years he is honest and objective enough to admit when green is not the better choice.

Hay Dude, do you think the tractor industry is going to keep calling their captive financing zero percent when it gets that high? 😂

Clever, I think you found a good one. I'm going to be looking forward to more pictures of your tractor and the jobs you will be doing with it.

Tim points out all the rebranding and consolidation that is occurring with compact tractors these days. He raises awareness about the inherent risks that will follow this trend.

The machinery industry needs a big correction and it's headed towards one.