Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[Phil Timmons]

And I don’t know if you know this, but “arrogance and ignorance” are sins. So as long as we stay in the bible and in rooted in Christianity, we can keep those sins to a minimum.

I don’t agree with you to broad brush the US as “dumb”. Sure, there are dumb people, but they exist in all countries and cultures. The US also has dumb politicians, we can both agree on that, but they also exist in other countries.
We also have brilliant people.

However, the nature of the US is still rooted in christianity and capitalism, thankfully, not Godlessness and socialism, and that gives the free private enterprise system we have in place a lot of control, rather than being controlled by a Godless socialist or communist system of centralized control.

I would rather live here than China, or any other place in the world. Our technology, while not always perfect, is still the best and as long as we stay a Capitalist country, we will continue to be the country everyone wants to come to. We do need to stop attracting others with free handouts, though. It costs too much and lowers the quality of life for all.
You can’t have open borders and be a welfare state, as is frequently said.

Such are the Words, but consider the Practice?

We agree that what you are saying is the common (mis)representation -- but LOOK at what US really do?

Jesus 101: Matthew 6:5
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

Jesus 101: Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

So where is US "Treasure?" What does US really value? Again not the Words, watch the Practice. Check the "Fruit." -- largest two spending items --

1. War, Weapons, and Terrorism.

So what does that "Fruit" indicate? One of US primary "Gods" is Mars / Ares -- God of War. Not saying that is a good thing. It is not -- however, by Jesus measure, that is what things are.

2. Wealth.

Money, US wants it, US Loves it, US wants more of it. True? The other big spending Item (in addition to War) is Interest. Due to Debt. So that the Wealthy may be more Wealthy. Tithes to the God of Wealth. With the loyal priests and servants, the Bankers, to serve them.

Consider back to "Christian" Europe. The King had a big castle -- but the really big building was the Cathedral. A monument of the Glory of Almighty God, right? Now consider US Largest Buildings in most cities?

Bank Towers. The temples for US Worship of Wealth. Common Name for that God of US is Pletus. (not Pluto -- from Hades or Mickey Mouse) -- but rather like Plutocracy. Rule by Wealth. If that does let you know who US Real Gods are, consider the Fake Ones?

Do not think so? Look at the US Fake "Christian" Leadership? Their big plan -- a "National Day of Prayer," so that they can hose and (continue to) mislead US and the gullible.

Meanwhile, Jesus 101: Matthew 6:5
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."

US is not even the least bit "Christian" other than marketing terms.

 

[Hay Dude]

You dont think china has a plan for all those clean coal plants they just built? There is an arms race to AI, robotics, tracking and hacking we aren't even aware of yet.

Phil anything measurable can be manipulated. So lets not pretend china doesnt harm the environment.

Im not suggesting we should fly around and rob oil either. Frankly i think the iran war is crap. With that said im not stupid enough to believe china is this perfect example of what to do.

Modern China is gross
Organ harvesting
Covid spread
Communism
No freedom of speech
No freedom of religion
Few property rights
All Disgusting

Who would live there just because they have advances in solar power over us?

F that crap.

 

[JasperFrank]

This is the largest building I know of in Lane County Oregon. It has zero solar cells on it.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Why not study/implement the harnessing of the power of the sun that heats asphalt parking lots?

There is a lot there -- during the Summer. But the form of the energy is mostly in Heat.

Meanwhile in Summer, humans tend to like energy in the form of form of Electricity.

Converting from Heat to Electricity can be rather lossy and messy -- same thing the Solar Mirror folks found out.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Modern China is gross
Organ harvesting
Covid spread
Communism
No freedom of speech
No freedom of religion
Few property rights
All Disgusting

Who would live there just because they have advances in solar power over us?

F that crap.

It is not so much a "Live There" thing.

It could be a "Learn From" thing for US. Or not.

 

[bmaverick]

China didnt build that many coal plants to then not use. China isn't exactly known for honest reporting

Has anyone here offer up VAWT device to use for wind yet?

 

[Phil Timmons]

China didnt build that many coal plants to then not use. China isn't exactly known for honest reporting

China Coal run-time is about 50%.

Which is about the same as US.

China Coal Run-time trend is downward.

Which is about the same as US.

(US did bump up last year due to Gas Price Increase).

It costs China to import Coal.

Installed China Solar PV and Big Wind is "Free" to operate.

WHY would China be trying to present they are not using the Coal plants more than 50%? Or not not using them? This is all tracked by satellites.

China has offered to connect to US with HVDC. They seem to think US is just rather stupid, but are too polite to say so. So far they seem correct in this regard.

 

[Hay Dude]

It is not so much a "Live There" thing.

It could be a "Learn From" thing for US. Or not.

So what would one learn from them? That 60 million deaths from the communist revolution is good? Probably not.
Regulating how many children a family can have is good? hmmm probably not.
That regulating freedom of speech to the point of everyone in the country is scared to speak up? Probably not.
That freedom of association, ownership of property, freedom of travel is verboten? Probably not.

China reminds me of a strict, abusive, authoritarian father who spends all his money on objects. The family (the citizens of china) grow up scared of the father and as soon as they can, if they can, want to leave the family (China), and never really love the father. The USA is a more lenient father, who allows his children freedom of expression and freedom to go about their lives as they wish. In return, they like their father much more, and do not want to leave the family (the USA). That’s why millions come to the US and millions leave china.

China may have more physical objects that you like, like modern power plants, but a power plant is an inanimate object. Those are ok I guess, but People want to be free to express themselves and move about freely, have the number children they want, own property, etc.

Let’s say you are right, China whups our ass in power plants. Great. They pump their money into power plants. We whup their ass in a lot more important things, like freedom. And as you know, freedom is costly. That’s where we chose to spend our money.
China can’t even come close to the US in quality of freedoms.

 

[Hay Dude]

China Coal run-time is about 50%.

Which is about the same as US.

China Coal Run-time trend is downward.

Which is about the same as US.

(US did bump up last year due to Gas Price Increase).

OK, so if China and US are about equal in coal consumption for energy, how are they so brilliant and we are so “stupid” as you always say? All I hear about are coal plants closing in the USA and China building coal plants. Doesn’t that give you any optimism?

It costs China to import Coal.

Installed China Solar PV and Big Wind is "Free" to operate.

WHY would China be trying to present they are not using the Coal plants more than 50%? Or not not using them? This is all tracked by satellites.

China has offered to connect to US with HVDC. They seem to think US is just rather stupid, but are too polite to say so. So far they seem correct in this regard.

I don’t think the US blows off chinas offer to connect with HVDC because they are stupid. We do it because they are smart. We have learned that the chinese deploy spyware in everything electronic they can export to us. It gives them an opportunity
to exploit us for more nefarious reasons than we already have.
Everyone knows the USA is the biggest producer of fossil fuel energy in the world, so we are in a different place than china. They have more urgency to develop alternative forms of energy and we do not.

 

[Duds13]

I knew a guy that helped install solar panels on 13,000 acres of prime farmland in my area. I was kidding him about how my bill should be going down with all of the free electricity and he said that they planned on rates increasing 10%/year. This farmland was leased to them at $1,000 per acre/month for at least 30 years. He was making about $3,000/week working 7 days a week.

10% increase per year and now an eyesore to look at. No thanks

 

[Duds13]

Let’s say you are right, China whups our ass in power plants. Great. They pump their money into power plants. We whup their ass in a lot more important things, like freedom. And as you know, freedom is costly. That’s where we chose to spend our money.
China can’t even come close to the US in quality of freedoms.

And unfortunately there's a large population in this country who have no idea what freedom really is.

 

[Hay Dude]

And unfortunately there's a large population in this country who have no idea what freedom really is.

Correct.
“Freedom” attracts millions from the rest of the world. It means you have to have borders to keep those millions from overrunning your nation to get those freedoms. That costs billions each year in border protection and deportation. Freedom to own firearms, freedom to move about, freedom of speech, association, religion, etc means billions spent on tracking, licensing, training, etc.

Freedom requires a strong military to defend freedom from attacks by oppressive countries who wish to destroy our freedoms. Look at Iran. They want women covered and home with their mouths shut. They want to make us like them. We need to be able to protect ourselves from their nuclear missile and bomb attacks.

China has literally nobody seeking refuge in their country. Maybe those billions they have to spend on newer means of energy creation.

 

[walhondingMF]

Why not put solar panels atop huge corporate centers, Walmarts, schools, big city buildings, airports, etc. and leave the agriculture land in its’ natural state of beauty?

Do people in fly-over country have to pay the price and make the sacrifice for every squirrely faculty lounge professor’s fantasies?

I don't understand how this idea is harder then putting them on farm land many miles from where the power is used.
There is so much roof space in the locations that require the electricity, why not just keep it there. Transmission would be so much less of an issue too.
I don't know why it would be more cost effective to construct the exact same solar panel array over a field when you could construct the exact same thing over a parking lot.

 

[walhondingMF]

I always though parking lots would be a natural place to cover with solar panels. Until you realize that people have a hard enough time driving through an unobstructed parking lot, without hitting something. Can you imagine if there were poles supporting overhead solar panels?

Good point but look at a parking garage. If people in the city can make it through there they should be able to miss some poles in a parking lot.

 

[WM75Guy]

When we went to San Diego we saw this Target with solar panels used for covered parking. Aerial view shows the roof pretty well covered as well. That looks like the way to go.

 

[Eagle1]

If you want solar this ^^^^^^^ would be a much better first step than this in my opinion.

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

Freedom requires a strong military to defend freedom from attacks by oppressive countries who wish to destroy our freedoms. Look at Iran. They want women covered and home with their mouths shut. They want to make us like them.

No Iranians are coming to the US and try to "make us like them". It's never happened. The only freedoms I've ever lost are from our own government, for example, President Bush's Patriot Act.

We need to be able to protect ourselves from their nuclear missile and bomb attacks.

I read a poll last week where they asked if attacking Iran was justified. They then asked the same people if they believed Iraq had WMDs that justified attacking them in 2003. There was a large overlap in people that held both those beliefs, proving that there are a lot of naive people that are easily manipulated by government propaganda.

 

[Phil Timmons]

OK, so if China and US are about equal in coal consumption for energy, how are they so brilliant and we are so “stupid” as you always say? All I hear about are coal plants closing in the USA and China building coal plants. Doesn’t that give you any optimism?

Understand the "hear" thing. We "hear" what is promoted to US.

The entire point is that much of US "News" and "information" are intentionally misleading US with lies and as you know the phrase -- FUD.

I don’t think the US blows off chinas offer to connect with HVDC because they are stupid. We do it because they are smart.

US blows off China's offer because it would harm the Cash Flow to US Top End. Same as US poor(er) folks having Cheap Chinese Solar PV takes out the US Top End Central Plants for Electricity Generation.

We have learned that the chinese deploy spyware in everything electronic they can export to us. It gives them an opportunity
to exploit us for more nefarious reasons than we already have.

There is no "spyware" in Electrons. But the real fear for US is Fear of Loss. The US Top End that quit paying taxes about 40 years, and now pretty much "owns" US, but has also put US in the greatest debt the World has ever seen -- wants to keep their coveted position, and continue extracting Cash Flow from the bottom and middle of US.

Everyone knows the USA is the biggest producer of fossil fuel energy in the world, so we are in a different place than china.

If "everyone knows" that . . . then maybe everyone is wrong? btw, the US Top End knows it is not true. That is where the lies came from that you so strongly believe.

If you are counting Coal in Fossil . . . China still leads the World by far. Not a good thing, but that is the thing. It is WHY those China Coal Plants exist.

Meanwhile, if you are thinking Oil? US daily consumption is about 20 Million Barrels per day. US MAX Oil production is about 13 to 14 Million Barrels per day. Where do you think the additional comes from? Imports and more Trade Debt and Losses. US has been a net importer of Oil EVERY Year since the 1960s. Does not match what FOX News lies to US, huh?

They have more urgency to develop alternative forms of energy and we do not.

China does not run Trade Debts like US. They are profitable at the border.

They have bothered to look ahead more than 90 days (typical US business planning, now). They see where the Coal + Oil + Fossil leads. They have US as a Bad Example to see that.

US just tends to be too stupid to have any self-awareness.

 

[Phil Timmons]

I don't understand how this idea is harder then putting them on farm land many miles from where the power is used.
There is so much roof space in the locations that require the electricity, why not just keep it there. Transmission would be so much less of an issue too.
I don't know why it would be more cost effective to construct the exact same solar panel array over a field when you could construct the exact same thing over a parking lot.

Comes down to WHO owns it, WHO profits from it, and WHO Benefits.

The remote Central Plant model is:

Owned by the Corporate Utility, and
Provides Profit to the Corporate Utility, and
Benefits the Corporate Utility.

The Parking Lot is owned locally, provides local power, and is profitable and benefits the local area.

But as long as US are too stupid to understand the difference, the Corporations and Utility will continue to take the money.

 

[Redbug]

On the solar panel and wind generator companies...what happens when the subsidies end or the companies themselves go out of business?