Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[ETD66SS]

Man is that overkill! I love it!!

It will likley still collect lint even with the generous radius elbows, so will have to rig up a plastic bristle brush I can pull through the duct every so often. I should be able to pull from the inside to the outside, the vent exits under the lean-to ceiling. (luckiliy the building inspector ok'ed this as opposed to mandating it exit a vertical wall, otherwise it would have been a longer duct run).

 

[WinterDeere]

It will likley still collect lint even with the generous radius elbow...

I have a theory that lint will only collect on the walls of the tube to some self-stabilizing critical mass, and then never progress further. As lint collects on the walls of the tubing, it decreases the cross-section and increases air velocy. I think this increase in velocy, and any potential increase in back-pressure that comes with it, will blow the tube clean, to a self-stabilizing threshold.

I say this because I know with 100% that my dryer vent has not be cleaned in 15 years, and there are no issues with flow, despite my wife running the laundry damn near 24/7 due to her and kids each changing multiple times per day and washing anything worn more than 30 seconds. I'd bet that if cleaned today, you'd find the same amount of total lint in those pipes that existed there 6 months after installation.

But I do love your welded flange! I always hate how flimsy dryer tubing is, for something I'm going to be burying inside a wall.

 

[ETD66SS]

But I do love your welded flange! I always hate how flimsy dryer tubing is, for something I'm going to be burying inside a wall.

For those interested, this was CNC machined out of a solid chunk of Aluminum. Was the cheapest way to go, welding adds labor etc. Also I hate to say, it was about 1/6 th cost to have this made in China as opposed to anywhere in the USA.

I designed in CAD, 3D printed some mockups (white plastic), then ordered the final aluminum version via Xometry by uploading the 3D model of my final design.

 

[walnutman]

Dryer ducting was a project in itself. Designed my own custom oval to round elbow in 3D CAD and had it CNC machined as opposed to using the store bought elbows that are not smooth flow.

Also bought a large radius 45 degree elbow to connect to the custom to make a full 90 degree bend while clearing all the nearby plumbing. This ducting will be encased in the garage ceiling and I don't want to be cutting out drywall at a later date to mess with it.

I backed myself into a corner on this because the 2X6 wall for all this plumbing fell partially on top of a floor truss, so needed the oval to pass by the truss top chord without notching.



View attachment 5497198





I also designed some sheet metal brackets that I am getting laser cut that I will be using to attach the duct to the trusses so I can maintain the correct pitch. Then I'll be wrapping the duct in R6 insulation.

I got approval from the building inspector to start insulation, so once the ducting for both bathrooms is complete, insulating the living space will be the next step, however still waiting on the plumber to come back to finalize the waste venting.

This project is going very slow due to the fact I am rejecting a lot of quotes due to labor costs and doing the work myself. Even if I could afford to just sit back and pay others to do the work, I'm finding that the quality of the work I have paid for just isn't there...

OK I'm a machinist, tool and die, mold guy and retired aerospace multi axis CNC programmer.
When you say CNC'd that duct.... I'm flabbergasted.
For a dryer duct? You're nuts.

 

[EddieWalker]

That's the most impressive dryer vent I've ever seen!!!!

 

[walnutman]

I say this because I know with 100% that my dryer vent has not be cleaned in 15 years, and there are no issues with flow, despite my wife running the laundry damn near 24/7 due to her and kids each changing multiple times per day and washing anything worn more than 30 seconds.

Something that would never have been allowed in my house. Privileged to say the least.

 

[ETD66SS]

OK I'm a machinist, tool and die, mold guy and retired aerospace multi axis CNC programmer.
When you say CNC'd that duct.... I'm flabbergasted.
For a dryer duct? You're nuts.

I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, 30 years designing CNC fastening machines for commercial aerospace (automated rivet installation into wing/fuselage panels etc). So it's likely I am a little "off" compared to most people...

I agree, it was nuts to chose CNC maching from billet, but it was cheaper than 3D printing metal. (someday 3D printing metal will be cheaper than machining, but not yet...).

I could have tried to weld up something using sheet metal, but this was the best way to get a code compliant internally smooth/free flowing elbow (that could contort and miss all the other mechanicals in the way).

 

[aircommuter]

Even though my dryer vent could go through the wall right behind it I opted for a Miele T1 dryer.

 

[CH4Ohio]

I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, 30 years designing CNC fastening machines for commercial aerospace (automated rivet installation into wing/fuselage panels etc). So it's likely I am a little "off" compared to most people...

I agree, it was nuts to chose CNC maching from billet, but it was cheaper than 3D printing metal. (someday 3D printing metal will be cheaper than machinging, but not yet...).

I could have tried to weld up something using sheet metal, but this was the best way to get a code compliant internally smooth elbow.

Curious -- Could you have just used the plastic 3-D printed piece for your dryer vent? Most dryers are vented with that cheap plastic-coated flexible hose and terminated with plastic caps. I have no experience with 3-D printed items and just wondered if it would be suitable.

I can see from the high-tech nature of your vent that you wanted something more industrial, but would it have worked?

Thanks.

 

[ETD66SS]

Curious -- Could you have just used the plastic 3-D printed piece for your dryer vent? Most dryers are vented with that cheap plastic-coated flexible hose and terminated with plastic caps. I have no experience with 3-D printed items and just wondered if it would be suitable.

I can see from the high-tech nature of your vent that you wanted something more industrial, but would it have worked?

Thanks.

I am using the store bought plastic adapter to go from the flex hose the the oval, but from what I have read, ducting in enclosed areas (walls, floor, ceiling etc) needs to be rigid metal conduit, plastic is a big no-no for fire hazard. Generally it is 4" galvanized steel duct, but aluminum is allowed. The elbow I designed has a resultant 1/4" 6061-T6 aluminum wall thickness. I used woven fiberblass material (exhaust header wrap) between the alum elbow and the lumber to reduce heat conduction to the lumber.

It's important to also insulate the outside of the duct to limit condensation on the inside of the duct. However, since this duct will be in an insulated ceiling of a heated garage, it probbaly does not need the insulation but I'm going to add it anyways.

Once the ceiling is drywalled, I never want to have to think about this dryer duct etc. (other than cleaning via pulling a brush through it).

 

[Runner]

The length of run seem fairly long. Just curious if you've checked it against the max. length permitted in IRC?

 

[ETD66SS]

The length of run seem fairly long. Just curious if you've checked it against the max. length permitted in IRC?

The run is ~21 ft with one 90 deg elbow at the lean-to ceiling which costs 5 ft. (This elbow being at the very end and outside of the building-proper, not sure the cost would actually be 5 ft? not sure...).

The Dryer-ELL elbows do not cost any extra run length.

I'm sure my oval to circular elbow would add some run restriction, but I don't think enough to exceed the 35ft max.

The building inspector said he liked the way I did it. (this matters the most? lol).

 

[Runner]

The run is ~21 ft with one 90 deg elbow at the lean-to ceiling which costs 5 ft. (This elbow being at the very end and outside of the building-proper, not sure the cost would actually be 5 ft? not sure...).

The Dryer-ELL elbows do not cost any extra run length.

I'm sure my oval to circular elbow would add some run restriction, but I don't think enough to exceed the 35ft max.

The building inspector said he liked the way I did it. (this matters the most? lol).

Looks like you've got it covered! Just counting the trusses, the run seemed longer. Those listed elbows are neat. Good job!

 

[walnutman]

I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, 30 years designing CNC fastening machines for commercial aerospace (automated rivet installation into wing/fuselage panels etc). So it's likely I am a little "off" compared to most people...

I agree, it was nuts to chose CNC maching from billet, but it was cheaper than 3D printing metal. (someday 3D printing metal will be cheaper than machining, but not yet...).

I could have tried to weld up something using sheet metal, but this was the best way to get a code compliant internally smooth/free flowing elbow (that could contort and miss all the other mechanicals in the way).

I'm impressed with your abilities and I know how sometimes you simply get a bug and go for it.
If it was me Im sure I would have probably purchased an exhaust or turbo fitting at most.

 

[ETD66SS]

I'm impressed with your abilities and I know how sometimes you simply get a bug and go for it.
If it was me Im sure I would have probably purchased an exhaust or turbo fitting at most.

I complain about labor costs but then do stuff like this... Kinda always ben that way.

 

[WinterDeere]

For those interested, this was CNC machined out of a solid chunk of Aluminum. Was the cheapest way to go, welding adds labor etc. Also I hate to say, it was about 1/6 th cost to have this made in China as opposed to anywhere in the USA.

I designed in CAD, 3D printed some mockups (white plastic), then ordered the final aluminum version via Xometry by uploading the 3D model of my final design.

What's been your experience with higher-precision components, using Xometry? I'm spending $200k-$400k per year in machined parts, and getting absolutely murdered on pricing, lately.

Trouble is, individual parts are $4k/ea, and individual assemblies are $15k/ea, when bought in volumes of 5 - 10 at a time. If I were to test the waters with just the parts for one assembly, it'd typically be 4x more expensive than pricing at a half dozen, and these are items often only ordred at 5 - 20 pieces per year.

 

[ETD66SS]

What's been your experience with higher-precision components, using Xometry? I'm spending $200k-$400k per year in machined parts, and getting absolutely murdered on pricing, lately.

Trouble is, individual parts are $4k/ea, and individual assemblies are $15k/ea, when bought in volumes of 5 - 10 at a time. If I were to test the waters with just the parts for one assembly, it'd typically be 4x more expensive than pricing at a half dozen, and these are items often only ordred at 5 - 20 pieces per year.

For the machines I design, we're typically looking for +/-.005" on most parts. These parts would be considered general bracketry & whatnot. Some of these we have changed from local machine shops to online marketplaces like Xometry (essentially Southeast Asia & China for best prices). Not great for American machine shops, but their rates just keep going to new sky highs...

The higher toleranced/GD&T parts that make up much more complex assemblies/tooling where we want +/-.001 or even down to a few tenths along with special heat-treating, we don't bother with Xometry (yet). But what I have been doing is designing some of those parts in such a way that I order a "machining blank" from Xometry, where the vast majority of the part is hogged out at +/-.005" tolerance, then make another drawing where we use the blank as the material, add GD&T taking off skim cuts for higher toleranced areas of the parts to get flatness, parallelism, bore concentricity, cylindricity etc. This means a local machine shop is doing the final machine work, but you're not paying their rate to hog out the entire part.

Also, for us most parts are one-off's, we don't order at quantity as our business model is such that we sell whatever customers order, there is no standard machine we stock.

I will say, a lot of steel or aluminum parts we used to make for mounting electrical/pneumatic components, we've switched to having them 3D printed from something like glass bead impregnated Nylon 12 (SLS printing process). Color dyed and vapor smoothed. They are strong and durable and hold up against any cutting lubricats used in the riveting process.

 

[walnutman]

For the machines I design, we're typically looking for +/-.005" on most parts. These parts would be considered general bracketry & whatnot. Some of these we have changed from local machine shops to online marketplaces like Xometry (essentially Southeast Asia & China for best prices). Not great for American machine shops, but their rates just keep going to new sky highs...

This country has sold itself out. We will not be able to help ourselves in the event of a global sanction period by other countries.
I think we depend way more on them then they do us. We are a consumer nation. No longer a manufacturing strength other than taxpayer funded stuff.
I don't blame companies for outsourcing... it's survival.

 

[ETD66SS]

This country has sold itself out. We will not be able to help ourselves in the event of a global sanction period by other countries.
I think we depend way more on them then they do us. We are a consumer nation. No longer a manufacturing strength other than taxpayer funded stuff.
I don't blame companies for outsourcing... it's survival.

One thing I will say. The reason places like Xometry are so handy for engineers like me is the quoting process is mainly 100% AI, no manual/human quoting at all. This means I can be designing a machine, and in a matter of about 5 minutes I can get a price on how much the part I am currently designing will cost. I can see what choices I have for material, tolerances, finishes etc and use what works best in the design. No waiting a week for machine shops to quote parts.

I can still choose for the parts to be made domestically, but as an example, the dryer elbow was $1100 made in China, $7800 to have it made in USA. I hate giving money to China but...

 

[walnutman]

One thing I will say. The reason places like Xometry are so handy for engineers like me is the quoting process is mainly 100% AI, no manual/human quoting at all. This means I can be designing a machine, and in a matter of about 5 minutes I can get a price on how much the part I am currently designing will cost. I can see what choices I have for material, tolerances, finishes etc and use what works best in the design. No waiting a week for machine shops to quote parts.

I can still choose for the parts to be made domestically, but as an example, the dryer elbow was $1100 made in China, $7800 to have it made in USA. I hate giving money to China but...

So why does it have to be China doing this. Why don't we have a similar experience here?

$1100 for a dryer vent elbow..... OK
I don't think I would have told anyone LOL