5240 3-pt Ballast Recommendations

[JWR]

Interesting recessing the 3ph pins. Of course, the same weight 2x the distance from the rear axle has twice the counterbalancing effect.

It would be interesting to design a similar setup which allowed a flexible attachment, closer in for less weight on front giving more maneuverability, farther back when you have a bigger load.

This entire thread amazes anyone who made it through the sophomore course in structural statics. Even if you did not. Just draw a stick diagram showing only the pivots (the axles) and the levers as straight lines between the loads and the pivots. Lever length times weight (force) equals torque. In foot-pounds. Plug in whatever numbers you want [for lever lengths and weights] and see the results. Illustrates all aspects of this topic.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Interesting recessing the 3ph pins. Of course, the same weight 2x the distance from the rear axle has twice the counterbalancing effect.

While I don't have a scale to be able to actually weigh it like the guys in the two videos ... My "seat of the pants scale" tells me a bit about that ...

The above brush hog is 8' long, and weighs 518.4 Lbs (I do have a scale to weigh that!) which hangs off the back of the quick hitch ... With that on, the front is "light" and hard to steer going forward over about 2 mph with nothing in the bucket, if the tail wheel is off the ground.

With the backhoe (BH) on, which is how I bought it as a Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB) with nothing in the bucket, it steers just fine at any speed, by the way the BH weighs 651.0 Lbs. But ... Backing up with an empty bucket and a quick turn and stop can slide the front tires sideways a little bit.

With the home built ballast box which weighs 707.0 Lbs, the tractor acts like the BH does ...

If you look closely at the previous picture with the two totes in it, you will see that I came up with a way to add additional TRACTION weight, in addition to the filled rear tires, and steel wheel weights ... I added 275 Lbs of steel weight lifting plates to a pipe slid through the BH frame mounts!

This weight is very close to the rear axle, and doesn't effect the front axle as much as if it were farther back, but that is not the purpose of it, it is mostly to add weight for TRACTION when pulling a rear blade, but does offer a little bit of rear counter-ballance, probably less than a third then if it was out at the "pins" or on the quick hitch.

While higher than the axle, it is still as low as the engine, and provides extra stability too!

 

[CH4Ohio]

You might consider switching your rear wheels/tires from one side to the other. If like my L5740HSTC, they are originally mounted at a narrow spacing. Because of the rim configuration, I was able to just move my left tire to the right, and vice versa, to get the max spacing. (Tires still face forward -- roll in the same direction.) I think I picked up about 6" in width (just guessing) but it made a noticeable improvement in stability when loading hay with a grapple.

Hayden is right about these tractors being squirrely with a medium-heavy load in the bucket/grapple. Mine is very tippy and if I'm not on perfectly flat ground I have to be careful. With a real heavy lift on uneven ground, even with loaded rear tires and a ballast box, it's tippy.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

On my L5030 switching sides wouldn't make any difference, had to remove the center disc and repositioned it ... Notice in the narrow configuration that the nuts from the center disc to the wheel are showing ...

Here you can see the right side that I polished up that was the outside, and the center of the wheel has that little bracket ...
The disc use to be on the right side of that bracket, and a carriage bolt went from the left to the right, with the nut showing in the above picture ...

With the center disc now moved to the other side of the bracket, the carriage bolts are facing the other way, and I gained a little over 2" on each side ...

For my wheel and tire size this is the only option ... I have the 14.9 - 26 farm or ag R1 tires.

And yes, that 4" makes a difference in not only stability, but lessens the side to side jostling ...

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

I made my own concrete counterweight that is as easy as backing up to it, lifting, and driving away. The weight is fixed (2,600lbs), but it's fast and easy to use and then drop back off again when not needed. All I had to do is modify a SSQA pallet fork structure to fit on my 3pt. hitch.

It's a great system.

 

[varmint]

I have a smaller tractor, a Kubota L3400. No loaded tires, but I did add some 2" wheel spacers to widen the rear stance for stability on slopes, which I am pleased with. For rear ballast, I welded up a frame with 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle, filled in the sides and bottom with 5/8" ext. plywood (my tractor is stored inside a barn) and then filled the box with heavy rip-rap stone. I can add or remove weight depending on my perceived needs. I have some racks on either side to hang chains, and a chain saw holder on the back side. A solid concrete fill would be probably twice as heavy, but I wanted flexibility. And my loader capacity is only about half a ton.

 

[CoyPatton]

John Deere seems to recommend ballast roughly to what your loader lift specs are. In your case I looked it up and saw about 1850 pounds so you might be a little light. I know I’m a little light with my ballast box also but hate to go much heavier. I think your plan is pretty good.

Depending on the size of his rear tires, being filled with rim guard, he could have cut into that 550lbs he is light by a lot.

 

[CoyPatton]

Keep in mind Rimguard and wheel weights do nothing to counterbalance the end loader and don’t take weight off the front axle. They do add to tractor stability though.

I disagree! Yes they do an excellent job of adding stability and weight on the rear axle which translates to traction, but as they also add weight behind the fulcrum point with a loader (the front axle) they do add to the ballast. It is less effective ballast than weight hanging behind you, but it is ballast.
One point for the OP, less weight further from the rear of the tractor provides greater counter balance (remember what in my day we called the see-saw from the grade school playground). OP mention keeping his ballast as close to rear axle as possible. While being close is beneficial in any tight quarters (woods qualify), it does mean more weight is required for the same counter balance effect.

 

[dodge man]

I disagree! Yes they do an excellent job of adding stability and weight on the rear axle which translates to traction, but as they also add weight behind the fulcrum point with a loader (the front axle) they do add to the ballast. It is less effective ballast than weight hanging behind you, but it is ballast.
One point for the OP, less weight further from the rear of the tractor provides greater counter balance (remember what in my day we called the see-saw from the grade school playground). OP mention keeping his ballast as close to rear axle as possible. While being close is beneficial in any tight quarters (woods qualify), it does mean more weight is required for the same counter balance effect.

It’s not but you need to watch the video to convince yourself. They weigh the front and rear axles and filling the rear tires takes no weight off the front axle.

 

[90cummins]

I have a 1720 Ford and my most used/versatile 3pt attachment is a set of pallet forks. I then poured a 2x2x2 concrete weight (1200lbs) that is secured to a heavy pallet. My forks are on the 3pt hitch 90% of the time for moving & carrying. When I need ballast I back into pallet & go. Within seconds I can drop the weight of pick it up.
I have a toolbox secured to a pallet that I keep my chainsaws in along with any tools & accessories necessary to maintain saw.
I can also attach a trailer hitch ball on the tip of fork for a quick trailer move.
90cummins

 

[Bentrim]

My son brought home a 55 gallon drum that someone had taken the top off, cut holes for a three point crossbar ran brackets up for the top link and even installed a receiver for a hitch out the back of the barrel. Then filled it with concrete and even inserted a bolt for a chain in the center so it could be moved with a hoist. Don't know the weight but my MF 245 and 231 Loader will pick up the limit of the loader. One winter I plowed snow without chains, no filled tires and just the barrel on the tractor. Without the barrel it is easy to pick the rear tires off the ground with weight in the bucket.

 

[massey 165]

Why are the logs being carried by a loader? I skid my logs 16.5' to a somewhat level area to load on my truck.
I would use a log arch or two on a log,
If the purpose is to keep the logs clean.
The dirt can be power washed if using a portable sawmill.
Good luck.

 

[hayden]

Thanks for the response. I may add wheel weights eventually as I plan on getting an offset flail mower this summer. I haven't run into any issues with the rear end lifting yet, but it does not do well in snow (or on wet grassy slopes for that matter). I've gotten stuck in both. The R4's do not impress in regards to traction either.

I haven't checked how many ply my R4's have, but they are STIFF. The Rimguard and my cheap gauges have prevented me from getting a very accurate reading, but I seem to be at about 6psi. Virtually NO compression front or rear no matter what I pick up.

R4s are great for weight carrying capacity, but suck for traction on anything but dry ground.

 

[thankyouTBN]

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

The tractor is a L5240 HSTC with 854 loader, R4 tires loaded with Rimguard. I'll be using the factory bucket or EA Wicked grapple. The LA854 loader weighs 1,300lbs, the bucket weighs 300lbs. Estimated total weight of everything is around 7k lbs. My primary "concern" is moving logs over fairly hilly terrain.

My plan to construct a very low and wide ballast box, and I'd like to keep the weigh fairly close-in to the rear axle to reduce the chance of swinging weight. I'm shooting for around 1,300 lbs. Thoughts?

I have a smaller tractor than you (B2150) so I don’t know about carrying MASSIVE amounts of weight but on my small tractor I welded up a forklift attachment and I will either pick up a “pan“ of rocks or load logs on the back so I can carry two loads at once. In your case, I don’t know if that would be dangerous, but for me it has worked wonderfully. I can carry two loads of dirt at once and cut in half the time it takes to move a pile of dirt. This is not a great photo but it’s the only one I could find quickly. I cut a 275 gallon fuel oil tank and half and I use it as the “pan“ that I could drop down and pick up, I also stumbled across the way to dump it and pick the pan back up with the forks without having to get off the tractor. It makes dumping a lot easier and faster.
I would think if you chained some logs to a forklift attachment, they wouldn’t slide off.
I pick up a load of dirt or rocks with the bucket, dumped them in pan, turn around and fill the bucket with dirt or rocks and then go. From my point of view I can’t understand how anybody would ever want a ballast box.

 

[thankyouTBN]

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

The tractor is a L5240 HSTC with 854 loader, R4 tires loaded with Rimguard. I'll be using the factory bucket or EA Wicked grapple. The LA854 loader weighs 1,300lbs, the bucket weighs 300lbs. Estimated total weight of everything is around 7k lbs. My primary "concern" is moving logs over fairly hilly terrain.

My plan to construct a very low and wide ballast box, and I'd like to keep the weigh fairly close-in to the rear axle to reduce the chance of swinging weight. I'm shooting for around 1,300 lbs. Thoughts?

I have a smaller tractor than you (B2150) so I don’t know about carrying MASSIVE amounts of weight but on my small tractor I welded up a forklift attachment and I will either pick up a “pan“ of rocks or load logs on the back so I can carry two loads at once. In your case, I don’t know if that would be dangerous, but for me it has worked wonderfully. I can carry two loads of dirt at once and cut in half the time it takes to move a pile of dirt.

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

The tractor is a L5240 HSTC with 854 loader, R4 tires loaded with Rimguard. I'll be using the factory bucket or EA Wicked grapple. The LA854 loader weighs 1,300lbs, the bucket weighs 300lbs. Estimated total weight of everything is around 7k lbs. My primary "concern" is moving logs over fairly hilly terrain.

My plan to construct a very low and wide ballast box, and I'd like to keep the weigh fairly close-in to the rear axle to reduce the chance of swinging weight. I'm shooting for around 1,300 lbs. Thoughts?

better photos of the pan. I also stumbled upon a way to adapt the pan so that I could lift the firewood up high and dump it onto the top of the pile. I stumbled across a technique to dump a pan of firewood or rocks/dirt “higher“ but not as high as with the loader bucket/pan adaptation.
I have hauled TONS of stuff with that forklift and pan. It doubles my capacity and halves the time it takes to move materials.

 

[JRH02]

My B7100 has a short length of chain on one of the 3p link arms and there is a hook under the seat to hold a link. This is obviously OEM. The height of whatever is attached to the 3p can be adjusted to your liking. With a large, heavy dead weight on the 3p, if you don't have something like this, you might think about something equivalent so all that weight is not continuously sitting on the 3p hydraulics or it doesn't sag while you are working.

 

[JWR]

On my L5030 switching sides wouldn't make any difference, had to remove the center disc and repositioned it ... Notice in the narrow configuration that the nuts from the center disc to the wheel are showing ...

View attachment 5238249

Say Shawn T. W. ... I'm glad to see someone else is making good use of their 17 lb Monster Maul. Mine was delivered to a nearby house over 40 years ago and the neighbor lady came dragging it across the street to our house, saying my wife was trying to kill me having me swing such a thing...

 

[JWR]

I have a smaller tractor than you (B2150) so I don’t know about carrying MASSIVE amounts of weight but on my small tractor I welded up a forklift attachment and I will either pick up a “pan“ of rocks or load logs on the back so I can carry two loads at once. In your case, I don’t know if that would be dangerous, but for me it has worked wonderfully. I can carry two loads of dirt at once and cut in half the time it takes to move a pile of dirt.

better photos of the pan. I also stumbled upon a way to adapt the pan so that I could lift the firewood up high and dump it onto the top of the pile. I stumbled across a technique to dump a pan of firewood or rocks/dirt “higher“ but not as high as with the loader bucket/pan adaptation.
I have hauled TONS of stuff with that forklift and pan. It doubles my capacity and halves the time it takes to move materials.

Sure glad to see someone else with a B2150. I have 3 of them -- 2 stick and one HST. Looks like your LA 350 loader works on the HST. There is some kind of difference and the loader can't be mounted on the stick model B2150. Diverting the thread from the ballast topic but seemed timely based on your post.

By the Way: if they had syncro transmissions the stick B2150 would have been the best compact ever built...in my opinion.

 

[FarmLife4]

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

The tractor is a L5240 HSTC with 854 loader, R4 tires loaded with Rimguard. I'll be using the factory bucket or EA Wicked grapple. The LA854 loader weighs 1,300lbs, the bucket weighs 300lbs. Estimated total weight of everything is around 7k lbs. My primary "concern" is moving logs over fairly hilly terrain.

My plan to construct a very low and wide ballast box, and I'd like to keep the weigh fairly close-in to the rear axle to reduce the chance of swinging weight. I'm shooting for around 1,300 lbs. Thoughts?

My recommendations would be number one go to your nearest Les Schwab and have them put beet juice in your rear wheels this is one of the heaviest liquid ballast you can find that is safe on everything that it touches. Stay away from calcium chloride while it is very heavy it is also very corrosive. Depending on what Wheels you have on the rear of your tractor this may offer just the ballast that you need while keeping the three-point lift arms free and not hindering clearance when backing up.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Depending on what Wheels you have on the rear of your tractor this may offer just the ballast that you need while keeping the three-point lift arms free and not hindering clearance when backing up.

Until ... The front seals start leaking ... And the bearings start grinding ... And the axle fails! Or the tractor rolls over!!!

There is a very good reason that Kubota (and all other manufacturers too!) recommends in there manual to have BOTH filled tires (and/or wheel weights) PLUS rear ballast (which goes on the three point!) when using a front loader.

I'm guessing you didn't watch either of the videos I posted in post #18?

The more weight you want to lift with the Front End Loader (FEL) the more weight you need on the three point ... Tire/wheel ballast is mainly for TRACTION, and yes it also serves to lower the center of gravity ...

Notice how all the pictures of actually using the loader show rear ballast hanging off the three point?

That's is from this manual ... Which is the loader the OP has!

Just because the back tires don't come off the ground, does not mean that one has sufficient rear ballast, that is not the litmus test ... The scales don't lie. (Watch the videos!)

Not only is rear ballast needed for proper and long life of the front axle components, it greatly reduces the risk of tipping over sideways, which can be detrimental to ones health, or LIFE,!