Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #101  
Yeah… Because of tax breaks, green energy money (from the taxpayer of course).

Politics aside?
What about taxes, permits, and the like?
Those are added-on costs that make the cost of coal-energy production go up, whereas solar & wind get tax breaks.

We already have had an infrastructure in place for 100+ years to mine & transport coal or natural gas. RR Tracks & docks practically run to the powerplants doorstep.

IMO, keep using it and finding ways to make it burn cleaner while supplementing/replacing with natural gas.

Stop padding hostile foreign country’s pockets with our money for imported wind/solar products that are unreliable and start using American coal, gas & nuclear energy. More reliable.

Screw China. Support America.
However you look at it, the local big power companies in my state say they are saving $10-15M annually by converting coal plants to gas. A lot less operating complexity. And solar and wind just pump power directly into the grid, no plant needed. The windmills are made in Pueblo, Colorado, not China.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #102  
However you look at it, the local big power companies in my state say they are saving $10-15M annually by converting coal plants to gas.

That’s not what you said. You said “In my state, natural gas, wind, and solar are all cheaper than coal”. You did not say “gas” . So you are contradicting yourself in consecutive posts.
A lot less operating complexity. And solar and wind just pump power directly into the grid, no plant needed.

What? Are you trying to get us to believe the solar plant or the wind plant is not a “plant”?
Of course it is! Also there are enormous battery systems needed in some cases to store the electricity made during sunny or windy hours. Another part of the “plant”.

The windmills are made in Pueblo, Colorado, not China.

OK, so now ALL windmills are made in Pueblo, CO?
NONE are made overseas?

Come on big guy, let’s keep it real, K?





Top 15 Wind Turbine Manufacturers in the World (2025)

Blog

Top 15 Wind Turbine Manufacturers in the World (2025)​

Copied!

Updated onOct 22, 2025, 06:31 PM IST
Written byXaviour Raymond


See more1


Not ONE of these top 15 windmill producers is an American company. I know you won’t believe that, so open the link below and see for yourself.

 
Last edited:
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #103  
That’s not what you said. You said “In my state, natural gas, wind, and solar are all cheaper than coal”. You did not say “gas” . So you are contradicting yourself in consecutive posts.


What? Are you trying to get us to believe the solar plant or the wind plant is not a “plant”?
Of course it is! Also there are enormous battery systems needed in some cases to store the electricity made during sunny or windy hours. Another part of the “plant”.



OK, so now ALL windmills are made in Pueblo, CO?
NONE are made overseas?

Come on big guy, let’s keep it real, K?




Not ONE of these top 15 windmill producers is an American company. I know you won’t believe that, so open the link below and see for yourself.

Every windmill in my region comes a few hundred miles down the interstate from Pueblo. And this includes the huge wind farms in west Texas. Gas = natural gas. Coal is a loser that will never again be a dominant source of power generation. The toxic waste clean up and disposal issues alone are a huge cost.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #104  
So one of the high maintenance items on a coal plant is the fact that they are steam powered. I’ll the steam pipes, boilers, turbines etc are high maintenance. I assume natural gas powered ones don’t have this problem?
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #105  
So one of the high maintenance items on a coal plant is the fact that they are steam powered. I’ll the steam pipes, boilers, turbines etc are high maintenance. I assume natural gas powered ones don’t have this problem?
For coal, servicing the boiler is the top item (corrosion and deposits from coal combustion on the air side, and deposits and corrosion on the water/steam side) followed fairly closely by condensers. Fluidized bed coal combustion generally has lower air side deposits than just straight coal. Servicing coal boilers takes a fair amount of down time to cool, service, and then reheat. Downtime is very costly from the lost sales perspective. The coal fired steam turbines are easy peasy in comparison. Compared to coal, natural gas combustion doesn't have anywhere near the air side deposits if it is a natural gas to steam plant, but many new natural gas generation facilities are straight gas turbines (think jet planes) with directly coupled generators, much lower service requirements, and not all of it requires shutting generation down.

I think that defining a company as US or overseas is not simple in general, but especially in the field of energy as most of the big companies are global, with national divisions/semi independent/wholly owned US subsidiaries. Nobody makes something as bulky and awkward to ship as a wind turbine blade any farther from the generation site than they have to. "US" Oil companies anyone? I think that "made in the US" by a publicly traded US company, significantly owned by foreign investors companies would cover lots of companies, and not just in energy.

Not to pick on corporations, but almost all exist to serve their interests, perhaps "B" corporations aside, and they would be doing a less than optimal job if they didn't lobby for favorable treatment from governments, in the same way that taxpayers try to avail themselves of deductions and tax breaks.

Around here, labor costs dominate the cost of a solar installation, some costs attributable to permitting complexities. So the falling costs of hardware, may not lower the out the door price, in the same way that falling oil prices may not be reflected much, or at all, at the gas/diesel pump.

All the best,

Peter
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #106  
So one of the high maintenance items on a coal plant is the fact that they are steam powered. I’ll the steam pipes, boilers, turbines etc are high maintenance. I assume natural gas powered ones don’t have this problem?
IDK. But I do know that coal ash cleanup is high maintenance and it’s toxic waste so the disposal requires special and costly procedures to reduce soil and water pollution.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #107  
This is an interesting conversation about trade schools and colleges. Where it seems like everyone agrees. College is to expensive and trades is a great option that should be consider more often. Open conversation this seems to be the case. However actions dont reflect that.

Speaking of indoctrination Indiana University is one of the best schools in indiana. They were recently polled to be top 5 worst colleges for free speech. Purdue can in top 5 for the most freedom of speech. My niece wanted to go to Columbia University in Chicago. I was not thrilled with her enthusiasm. Nonetheless I kept it to myself. IN the end she chose to stay in state for free. I bring up Columbia b/c that school is awful. Here is why

I read a book called While Time Remains by Yionmi Park. It chronicles her life story about defecting from North Korea and finally making her way to the states. She attended and graduated from Columbia University in New York. This script is from the student handbook and read out loud to every student

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Digest that one for awhile
If the above about Columbia University is true, it should be used to test nuclear weapons.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #108  
Energy is indeed versatile but once you politicize energy. You have made it more expensive. Which is exactly what's happened here in the states. China is used often as an example of how great they are deploying solar and wind. What most people dont realize is that china has over 1100 coal plants and they consume more coal than the globe. Oh and energy is far cheaper there. Stange how that is
But China sure knows how to get things done!
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #109  
I agree that traditional college isn't the right fit for everyone. I have two associate degrees in electronics. One in TV/Radio (transmitters, receivers, etc...), the other in industrial electronics (motors, controllers, etc...). They served me well. All of my siblings have BS, masters, etc... and all did pretty well. Both of our kids have BS, one has masters, both are in post graduate education. Both doing very well.

I know a lot of young folks that are doing very well in the trades. However, once these big jobs are done, they're done. I don't see projects of this size ever happening again in this area. So, they're going to have to move. Then, they'll be the hated "out of town" contractors. I'll be 80 when these projects wrap up. We'll see how it goes.

Key details regarding employment for this project include:
  • Total Construction Force: As of April 2025, there are an estimated 3,000 workerson-site for the combined projects in the area, including the AWS data center.
  • Roles: The project requires significant electrical infrastructure, with job postings actively seeking data center electricians, technicians, and managers for the New Carlisle and South Bend areas.
  • Duration: Construction began in 2024 and is expected to continue with additional buildings over the next 10–15 years, ensuring sustained employment for trade workers.
The project is considered the largest private-sector investment in Indiana's history.
In a sense, your electronics degrees are trade school education. Just up a level or two from, let's say, carpentry.
Not to degrade carpenters, as good ones are quite valuable. I too made my living with pushing electrons around.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects
  • Thread Starter
#110  
So here's were the confusion lies...

An excerpt from <While Time Remains>

“Columbia’s Code of Conduct reminded me of the seven commandments in George Orwell’s Animal Farm, which the animals would recite mindlessly, not knowing what they meant exactly or what the consequences would be:

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

Surprised, a little offended, and most of all bored out of my mind, I spent most of the rest of the “safe space” orientation course imagining Orwellian commandments for my new school:

Whatever disagrees, or is silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.”

So while, yes, it is in her book (took a bit better searching on my part, thanks for pointing that out), it is NOT in the Columbia code of conduct, NOR is it read to every student.
I think you might be surprised what goes on at universities like columbia. Where the teachers take it upon themselves to discuss those 8 phrases. She recounts how it was talked about by the professor. IF one is doing it. IM sure there were others. im going to go out on a limb and say you aren't going to find this in a search. As it is a little wild to be feeding that to young minds. With that said i do believe most colleges are in it for the young adults. Although the NIL is really altering how college players are getting paid. But thats whole different subject.

Offended isn't the right word but a bit aggravated when someone says did you even read the book. I mean who can make that up... really?
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #111  
The U.S. consumes almost 2.5 times the amount of energy as China per capita.

China uses double the amount of electricity than the U.S. but has 4 times as many people as the U.S.

On electricity generation:
China uses about 9.5 times as much coal as the U.S.
The U.S. uses 6 times as much natural gas.
China uses about 4 times as much hydro.
The U.S. uses about 1.7 as much nuclear.
China uses twice the wind power.
China uses about 2.5 more solar power.
China uses about 2.5 more oil.
China uses about 4 times as much biomass.
The US uses geothermal and China doesn't.

So...

China produces carbon dioxide emissions 190% above the global average per capita, but the U.S. produces 285% above the global average per capita.

So somehow we're entitled to consume way more energy and produce way more pollution per person than China, yet complain about China's energy consumption and production methods? :unsure:
It's fun to complain about China's pollution until it's time to use just about anything, as it was likely made in China.
Seems the reputation of lousy goods from China depends on if it's some low-priced item from Amazon or AliExpress versus an old line name brand item, made in China to name brand specs. They can make some downright good and clever things, for a good price.
I'd rather those things were made here, but follow the money.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects
  • Thread Starter
#112  
Solar and wind are providing 56% of the Texas power grid as of 0901 this morning. Power storage systems are being recharged for use after dark. A healthy mix of power sources is a good thing. I don't think any of them are going away anytime soon.


View attachment 4858267
A healthy mix is important. Here in indiana we experience a polar vortex pretty much every year. And for a few days there is no sun and the wind can be very limited.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #113  
They can make some downright good and clever things, for a good price.
In 2021 I bought the lowest priced Woodmizer, opting to buy from a manufacturer on this continent. A neighbor bought a Woodland Mill, which is made to specs in China for a US or Canadian company.

While they are both good machines, customer support for his is much better. Meanwhile Woodmizer has discontinued mine the year after I bought it and is now selling an improved version for the same price I paid.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #114  
So one of the high maintenance items on a coal plant is the fact that they are steam powered. I’ll the steam pipes, boilers, turbines etc are high maintenance. I assume natural gas powered ones don’t have this problem?
Most modern gas plants are combined cycle for the greatest efficiency. A gas turbine directly drives a generator, then there is heat recovery from the gas turbine exhaust that produces steam and drives a steam turbine driven generator. Combined Cycle Plant

I've worked on a few projects where a coal plant steam turbine was reused when the coal plant was decommissioned, but most combined cycle plants are completely new installations.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #115  
My thoughts are if not wind / solar then what ?? (nuclear, coal, gas)

and if not in my back yard then whose?? (yours, his, or hers)

I think it would be fair to put the production where the consumption is. So if LA want electricity lets put the nuclear plant or gas plant or panels or whatever there..... But if we do that what about placing chicken farms, cattle feed lots, etc... that get put in rural areas should they not be near where the meat is eaten??

oh so many random / useless thoughts in this head of mine.

For sure though not in my backyard seems to be common in all sorts of things these days that costs get driven up and growth grinds down to a complete stop. At least that is whats happening here. We can't get things done around here come hell or high water.



1769726610323.png
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects
  • Thread Starter
#116  
My thoughts are if not wind / solar then what ?? (nuclear, coal, gas)

and if not in my back yard then whose?? (yours, his, or hers)

I think it would be fair to put the production where the consumption is. So if LA want electricity lets put the nuclear plant or gas plant or panels or whatever there..... But if we do that what about placing chicken farms, cattle feed lots, etc... that get put in rural areas should they not be near where the meat is eaten??

oh so many random / useless thoughts in this head of mine.

For sure though not in my backyard seems to be common in all sorts of things these days that costs get driven up and growth grinds down to a complete stop. At least that is whats happening here. We can't get things done around here come hell or high water.



View attachment 4867872
I think there are better places to put solar. How many warehouses are in the state and country. Surely we could utilize that space. Its what other countries do. I do know that it was something that was tried but fires became a problem and insurance companies probably dont want that expense. The fires were probably b/c it was done cheap and steps were skipped to keep costs down.

I grew up on a farm so im ok with cow **** and pig ****. There is a purdue chicken facility i drive by almost every day and it never smells. I find it funny they have signs all over the place about not recording and do not enter. IM sure the disease in those things is bad. Guarantee they find dead chickens every week. Fact is animals were never meant to be raised in those conditions but we consume away. My grandpa said one day farming will go back to small farming. I think he maybe right. It might take a depression to get there but it will happen.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #117  
The issue is energy density. You can put in a 2 on 1 combined cycle plant that produces 1200MW and takes up 20 acres of space, with almost guaranteed available dispatch. Or 350 wind turbines, over ???? acres, that are never predictable on output. What's the better choice?

I'm a practical guy and it's a no-brainer to me.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #118  
My thoughts are if not wind / solar then what ?? (nuclear, coal, gas)

and if not in my back yard then whose?? (yours, his, or hers)

I think it would be fair to put the production where the consumption is. So if LA want electricity lets put the nuclear plant or gas plant or panels or whatever there..... But if we do that what about placing chicken farms, cattle feed lots, etc... that get put in rural areas should they not be near where the meat is eaten??

oh so many random / useless thoughts in this head of mine.

For sure though not in my backyard seems to be common in all sorts of things these days that costs get driven up and growth grinds down to a complete stop. At least that is whats happening here. We can't get things done around here come hell or high water.



View attachment 4867872
As a forester I wish there was more bio-energy generating plants to produce power. In my region there is one in northeastern Arizona and another one proposed in the Flagstaff area. Wood chips are not as economical as natural gas for an energy source, but when you look at the larger picture it makes sense. Having an outlet for forestry thinning material would reduce high severity wild fires and all of the negative outcomes: infrastructure damage, lives lost, flooding, soil erosion, lost timber, and rehabilitation costs such as soil stabilization and reforestation.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #119  
Jyoutz,
I agree with you completely. There's more to energy than cost and the environment. I was in Jasper, Alberta Canada a few years ago, and I couldn't help but notice all the dead spruce (?) trees. They either had a drought, bug/disease kill, or some other die-off. Entire landscapes were just a stand of dead trees. I couldn't help but think of what a fire hazard it was and wondered why the forest service hadn't tried to lessen the local fuel load.

Not 6-12 months later, a fire ripped through the area, wiping out a large portion of Jasper. It didn't surprise me at all, it seemed like complete incompetence by the governing agencies.

Those dead trees could have become lumber or biofuel if the proper systems were in place. Again, a sound energy policy shouldn't suffer the myopathy of the cheapest (or other politically acceptable) source, there are many more things to consider.
 
/ Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects #120  
Jyoutz,
I agree with you completely. There's more to energy than cost and the environment. I was in Jasper, Alberta Canada a few years ago, and I couldn't help but notice all the dead spruce (?) trees. They either had a drought, bug/disease kill, or some other die-off. Entire landscapes were just a stand of dead trees. I couldn't help but think of what a fire hazard it was and wondered why the forest service hadn't tried to lessen the local fuel load.

Not 6-12 months later, a fire ripped through the area, wiping out a large portion of Jasper. It didn't surprise me at all, it seemed like complete incompetence by the governing agencies.

Those dead trees could have become lumber or biofuel if the proper systems were in place. Again, a sound energy policy shouldn't suffer the myopathy of the cheapest (or other politically acceptable) source, there are many more things to consider.
We’re on the same page. But it would be interesting to know what the land ownership you saw is. A lot of Canadian forest lands are industry owned, not the national government. Then I’m sure that the Canadian forest service has to operate on appropriated budgets like we do in the U.S. Often there’s not funding to treat hundreds of thousands of acres that need fuels reduction and forest thinning. That’s why a biomass market and generating plant would help the situation.
 

Marketplace Items

2017 CATERPILLAR 120M2 MOTORGRADER (A52709)
2017 CATERPILLAR...
2018 CATERPILLAR 320GC EXCAVATOR (A60429)
2018 CATERPILLAR...
16ft x 8ft Flat Bed (A57454)
16ft x 8ft Flat...
2018 Ford F-150 Pickup Truck (A61568)
2018 Ford F-150...
2018 PJ TRAILER 32FT GOOSENECK TRAILER (A58214)
2018 PJ TRAILER...
SKID STEER ATTACHMENT PACKER (A58214)
SKID STEER...
 
Top