Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[jyoutz]

Energy is indeed versatile but once you politicize energy. You have made it more expensive. Which is exactly what's happened here in the states. China is used often as an example of how great they are deploying solar and wind. What most people dont realize is that china has over 1100 coal plants and they consume more coal than the globe. Oh and energy is far cheaper there. Stange how that is

Coal isn’t a cheap energy source. The four corners megaplant in my state reported that they are saving $10-15M/year after conversion from coal to natural gas.

 

[MossRoad]

Energy is indeed versatile but once you politicize energy. You have made it more expensive. Which is exactly what's happened here in the states. China is used often as an example of how great they are deploying solar and wind. What most people dont realize is that china has over 1100 coal plants and they consume more coal than the globe. Oh and energy is far cheaper there. Stange how that is

The U.S. consumes almost 2.5 times the amount of energy as China per capita.

China uses double the amount of electricity than the U.S. but has 4 times as many people as the U.S.

On electricity generation:
China uses about 9.5 times as much coal as the U.S.
The U.S. uses 6 times as much natural gas.
China uses about 4 times as much hydro.
The U.S. uses about 1.7 as much nuclear.
China uses twice the wind power.
China uses about 2.5 more solar power.
China uses about 2.5 more oil.
China uses about 4 times as much biomass.
The US uses geothermal and China doesn't.

So...

China produces carbon dioxide emissions 190% above the global average per capita, but the U.S. produces 285% above the global average per capita.

So somehow we're entitled to consume way more energy and produce way more pollution per person than China, yet complain about China's energy consumption and production methods?

 

[MossRoad]

This is an interesting conversation about trade schools and colleges. Where it seems like everyone agrees. College is to expensive and trades is a great option that should be consider more often. Open conversation this seems to be the case. However actions dont reflect that.

Speaking of indoctrination Indiana University is one of the best schools in indiana. They were recently polled to be top 5 worst colleges for free speech. Purdue can in top 5 for the most freedom of speech. My niece wanted to go to Columbia University in Chicago. I was not thrilled with her enthusiasm. Nonetheless I kept it to myself. IN the end she chose to stay in state for free. I bring up Columbia b/c that school is awful. Here is why

I read a book called While Time Remains by Yionmi Park. It chronicles her life story about defecting from North Korea and finally making her way to the states. She attended and graduated from Columbia University in New York. This script is from the student handbook and read out loud to every student

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Digest that one for awhile

OK, first off, that is NOT in the Columbia student handbooks, never WAS in the Columbia student handbooks, and never read out loud to every student.


No, Yeonmi Park did not write that text.

While she is a prominent critic of Columbia University (where she was a student) and has frequently compared the university’s environment to the North Korean regime she escaped, these specific lines were written by author and cultural critic James Lindsay.

Origin of the Text​

• Author: James Lindsay.
• Platform: X (formerly Twitter).
• Date: May 1, 2024.
• Context: Lindsay posted this list as a satirical summary during the 2024 student protests at Columbia University. It was intended to mock the "logic" he believes governs modern university campuses, rather than being a direct quote from any official or student.

Why people associate it with Yeonmi Park​

The confusion likely stems from the fact that Park has made very similar thematic arguments. In her book While Time Remains and various interviews, she has claimed that:

• Columbia students are "brainwashed" to hate America.
• There is a "chilling crackdown" on self-expression.
• Students are taught to "locate the white male bastards behind every crime."

Because her real criticisms share the same "anti-woke" themes as Lindsay’s satirical list, the two sources are often conflated in social media posts. However, the specific "Whatever disagrees... is an enemy" formatting belongs exclusively to Lindsay’s social media post.

So please, when you read something like that, check it out.

Also, that text:

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Is NOT anywhere in the books that she wrote. So either you didn't read it, or confused it with something else.

As for Purdue...

Purdue is a very affordable bargain. It's held its tuition rate at just under $10K per year for the past 14 years.

Both of our kids went there and got out debt free due to us starting 529 plans at $20 a paycheck when they were infants, them getting academic scholarships that covered half the tuition, and them working while in school. They both had money left over when they got out that helped with their post-baccalaureate educations.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Coal isn’t a cheap energy source. The four corners megaplant in my state reported that they are saving $10-15M/year after conversion from coal to natural gas.

Around here, the price of coal is now comparable to oil per BTU. I wasn't saving money, so I gave up burning it last year. Don't miss the labor and mess involved either.

 

[MossRoad]

Your south bend. Im south of you about 1.5 hrs. Im about half hour south of lafayette. I believe you guys have a data center getting approved or pushed back?

Yes, I'm very familiar with the Brownsburg area, Lafayette and Indy.

We have two Amazon data centers completed and operational, a third one under construction, and a GM battery plant under construction. All right next to a steel mill that's been there for probably 30 years, and a peaker gas fired power plant that's about 5-6 years old.

A fourth data center is trying to get approval in the same area, but the small town next to all of this development that was all gung-ho for development originally is now seeing how large these things are and they are pushing back on adding a fourth one. It did not get approval as of yet. Local politicians are pushing for it to make up for the lost tax revenue due to the governor's actions to support local services and infrastructure. Labor unions are pushing for it for jobs. They need more young members to support the old members in retirement.

There's also plans in the works for a Microsoft data center about 15 miles to the east in the same county. Don't know the status of that off the top of my head.

 

[MossRoad]

So, let me ask, how is solar farms really that different than growing corn for ethanol? They both use ground space, and the suns energy to create usable energy. They both are arguably only around due to subsidies. If corn doesnt pass you off, solar shouldn't either.

Now, to try to be balanced; wild life, solar fields arent barren wasteland, But they dont support that much wild life. If they choose to use a native wild flower mixed with low grasses, and or perrinial peanut ground cover, and bees, ect; you would likely get both more $$$ value and more ecological value.

Edit: What im saying, yeah, you'll see some rabbits, deer, ect; but likely less, significantly less than around pasture or row crop land.

https://extension.purdue.edu/cdext/thematic-areas/community-planning/collaborative-projects/_docs/_guidebookdocs/guidebook_pollinator-friendly.pdf

 

[jyoutz]

Around here, the price of coal is now comparable to oil per BTU. I wasn't saving money, so I gave up burning it last year. Don't miss the labor and mess involved either.

Think of a power plant and all of the costs associated with coal: mining, rail transport, loading, disposal of toxic ash and continuous plant cleaning. Now look at natural gas: a pipeline to the plant, clean burning, minimal plant cleanup.

 

[Paddy]

Edgarrian,

I was born in Brownsburg IN and our family still has a 100 ac of farm land. Ronald Reagan is extending right through our farm. It makes it all commercial land now. But AES decides to build a 230 kV substation in the arm pit of a major intersection.

So we have a highway and a substation, hog barn might have been better!

 

[edgarrian]

The U.S. consumes almost 2.5 times the amount of energy as China per capita.

China uses double the amount of electricity than the U.S. but has 4 times as many people as the U.S.

On electricity generation:
China uses about 9.5 times as much coal as the U.S.
The U.S. uses 6 times as much natural gas.
China uses about 4 times as much hydro.
The U.S. uses about 1.7 as much nuclear.
China uses twice the wind power.
China uses about 2.5 more solar power.
China uses about 2.5 more oil.
China uses about 4 times as much biomass.
The US uses geothermal and China doesn't.

So...

China produces carbon dioxide emissions 190% above the global average per capita, but the U.S. produces 285% above the global average per capita.

So somehow we're entitled to consume way more energy and produce way more pollution per person than China, yet complain about China's energy consumption and production methods?

Im not complaining but they are referenced often by climate people and clean tech leaders. Once you politicize energy as we have done and so many other nations. Policy is written. Whether its a good idea or not. The consequences always come later. Consequences meaning more money as we have all seen over the last 6 years. Where energy prices here have gone up around 7% a year or more. The closing of coal plants before we are ready is/was a bad idea. Its a small part of why manufacturing has left the US. Gone to china. Add in much lower corporate tax rates, lower labor, and cheaper material. ITs no wonder why companies leave here. P

 

[edgarrian]

Edgarrian,

I was born in Brownsburg IN and our family still has a 100 ac of farm land. Ronald Reagan is extending right through our farm. It makes it all commercial land now. But AES decides to build a 230 kV substation in the arm pit of a major intersection.

So we have a highway and a substation, hog barn might have been better!

Id agree. Brownsburg is hot with all the construction going on. Were you guys offered as much as the farmers were in Boone county for the leap project. The price paid per acre was 60 to 70k. Paid for by the tax payer to have a project shovel ready for corporations. Bc its too much of a hassle to have them do their own bidding

 

[edgarrian]

Yes, I'm very familiar with the Brownsburg area, Lafayette and Indy.

We have two Amazon data centers completed and operational, a third one under construction, and a GM battery plant under construction. All right next to a steel mill that's been there for probably 30 years, and a peaker gas fired power plant that's about 5-6 years old.

A fourth data center is trying to get approval in the same area, but the small town next to all of this development that was all gung-ho for development originally is now seeing how large these things are and they are pushing back on adding a fourth one. It did not get approval as of yet. Local politicians are pushing for it to make up for the lost tax revenue due to the governor's actions to support local services and infrastructure. Labor unions are pushing for it for jobs. They need more young members to support the old members in retirement.

There's also plans in the works for a Microsoft data center about 15 miles to the east in the same county. Don't know the status of that off the top of my head.

Unfortunately once you approve the projects. They keep coming b/c the zoning is there

 

[edgarrian]

OK, first off, that is NOT in the Columbia student handbooks, never WAS in the Columbia student handbooks, and never read out loud to every student.


No, Yeonmi Park did not write that text.

While she is a prominent critic of Columbia University (where she was a student) and has frequently compared the university’s environment to the North Korean regime she escaped, these specific lines were written by author and cultural critic James Lindsay.

Origin of the Text​

• Author: James Lindsay.
• Platform: X (formerly Twitter).
• Date: May 1, 2024.
• Context: Lindsay posted this list as a satirical summary during the 2024 student protests at Columbia University. It was intended to mock the "logic" he believes governs modern university campuses, rather than being a direct quote from any official or student.

Why people associate it with Yeonmi Park​

The confusion likely stems from the fact that Park has made very similar thematic arguments. In her book While Time Remains and various interviews, she has claimed that:

• Columbia students are "brainwashed" to hate America.
• There is a "chilling crackdown" on self-expression.
• Students are taught to "locate the white male bastards behind every crime."

Because her real criticisms share the same "anti-woke" themes as Lindsay’s satirical list, the two sources are often conflated in social media posts. However, the specific "Whatever disagrees... is an enemy" formatting belongs exclusively to Lindsay’s social media post.

So please, when you read something like that, check it out.

Also, that text:

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Is NOT anywhere in the books that she wrote. So either you didn't read it, or confused it with something else.

As for Purdue...

Purdue is a very affordable bargain. It's held its tuition rate at just under $10K per year for the past 14 years.

Both of our kids went there and got out debt free due to us starting 529 plans at $20 a paycheck when they were infants, them getting academic scholarships that covered half the tuition, and them working while in school. They both had money left over when they got out that helped with their post-baccalaureate educations.

Apparently you have not read the book. I have. I took the picture so i could share it with people. Have you read the book? That is a no. So before you make blind comments or posts. Try reading the material first before you comment.

Your search is riddled with holes so do urself a favor and buy the book. Read it. Then come back with a real statement instead of a search. Thanks

WE started a 529 as well for our niece who we took in. She went to IUPUI. Good school. She went for free so the 529 was used for school related expenses

 

[jyoutz]

Im not complaining but they are referenced often by climate people and clean tech leaders. Once you politicize energy as we have done and so many other nations. Policy is written. Whether its a good idea or not. The consequences always come later. Consequences meaning more money as we have all seen over the last 6 years. Where energy prices here have gone up around 7% a year or more. The closing of coal plants before we are ready is/was a bad idea. Its a small part of why manufacturing has left the US. Gone to china. Add in much lower corporate tax rates, lower labor, and cheaper material. ITs no wonder why companies leave here. P

Coal is not the cheapest energy source to produce electricity.

 

[edgarrian]

Coal is not the cheapest energy source to produce electricity.

Im not suggesting that it is. Its reliable is it not. Politicized energy is why ours is so expensive. Red tape has made coal too expensive here. If coal was so expensive. Emerging economies like india would not be using it

 

[gsganzer]

The benefit of coal is reliability. You can have a 30, 60, 90 day pile sitting right at the point of use. Immune from weather disruptions, union strikes and other disruptions.

 

[MossRoad]

Unfortunately once you approve the projects. They keep coming b/c the zoning is there

The zoning isn't there. They have to have it approved to get changed by the board of zoning appeals from AG to whatever is required for each project. I've had to do that myself to get our 19.9 acres changed from strictly AG to allow it to be AG/residential because it was under 20 acres (the minimum in our county unless there is at least 600 feet of road frontage). As long as there is no home or improvements on it, it remains AG and my taxes are about $135 a year, because it's currently forest. If we connect to the grid, run gas, build a barn with plumbing, it immediately gets changed and we'd pay 3% property tax on assessed value since it would be a 2nd property, plus back taxes on the forest exemption for 10 years. So if we built, we'd designate just 1 acre as residential, keep 18+ in forest, sell our old house, and pay 1% on assessed value as it would be our only home.

 

[MossRoad]

...

I read a book called While Time Remains by Yionmi Park. It chronicles her life story about defecting from North Korea and finally making her way to the states. She attended and graduated from Columbia University in New York. This script is from the student handbook and read out loud to every student

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Digest that one for awhile

So here's were the confusion lies...

An excerpt from <While Time Remains>

“Columbia’s Code of Conduct reminded me of the seven commandments in George Orwell’s Animal Farm, which the animals would recite mindlessly, not knowing what they meant exactly or what the consequences would be:

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

Surprised, a little offended, and most of all bored out of my mind, I spent most of the rest of the “safe space” orientation course imagining Orwellian commandments for my new school:

Whatever disagrees, or is silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.”

So while, yes, it is in her book (took a bit better searching on my part, thanks for pointing that out), it is NOT in the Columbia code of conduct, NOR is it read to every student.

 

[jyoutz]

Im not suggesting that it is. Its reliable is it not. Politicized energy is why ours is so expensive. Red tape has made coal too expensive here. If coal was so expensive. Emerging economies like india would not be using it

In my state, natural gas, wind, and solar are all cheaper than coal. When you look at mining, transportation, plant cleanup, and waste disposal, burning coal has a lot of costs, politics aside.

 

[Hay Dude]

In my state, natural gas, wind, and solar are all cheaper than coal.

Yeah… Because of tax breaks, green energy money (from the taxpayer of course).

When you look at mining, transportation, plant cleanup, and waste disposal, burning coal has a lot of costs, politics aside.

Politics aside?
What about taxes, permits, and the like?
Those are added-on costs that make the cost of coal-energy production go up, whereas solar & wind get tax breaks.

We already have had an infrastructure in place for 100+ years to mine & transport coal or natural gas. RR Tracks & docks practically run to the powerplants doorstep.

IMO, keep using it and finding ways to make it burn cleaner while supplementing/replacing with natural gas.

Stop padding hostile foreign country’s pockets with our money for imported wind/solar products that are unreliable and start using American coal, gas & nuclear energy. More reliable.

Screw China. Support America.

 

[WM75Guy]

Some research will reflect the folly of wind power. That aside, I used to have a view from my ranch that stretched from Fairview OK to Wichita, KS that was gorgeous. I had a broad view of rural living...porch lights to some city lights but very light light pollution that trashes star gazing. Now, I have a broad expansive view of red lights flashing in unison. It's as attractive as police car lights in your rear view mirror. I occasionally wake up and just watch the lights on the turbines go off and the surrounding lights take over before sunrise. I hope that I live until the they're removed.

Solar and wind are providing 56% of the Texas power grid as of 0901 this morning. Power storage systems are being recharged for use after dark. A healthy mix of power sources is a good thing. I don't think any of them are going away anytime soon.