Stabil in the mix?

[John_Mc]

Used to use Stihl in gray bottle but started having carbon issues in exhaust plugging up. Switched to Echo Red Armour and problem disappeared. Have used Red Armour for around 6 years now with zero problems.

Carbon or Ash was one of the complaints I was seeing about the Stihl gray bottle. Two of the top recommendations I was seeing were Echo Red Armor and Husqvarna XP+. I went with the XP+ smply because there is a hardware store near me that stocks it. I have not found Red Armor any where near me.

 

[WinterDeere]

The Stihl "gray" bottle is supposed to look "Platinum".

I also abandoned the stuff, not just because of all the reported problems, but because it made my clothes stink so bad that my wife would complain they were stinking up the laundry. Kind of funny, since I'm the rare bird that can sweat all day and produce zero smell.

Switched to Echo brand, and no such troubles.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Actually, the Stihl orange bottle is the cheaper stuff. They claim the gray bottle is their “high end” 2 cycle oil.

I used the Stihl gray bottle stuff for a while, since it is one of the easiest to find in my area. I stopped using it when I started seeing a lot of reviews panning it on a couple of chainsaw and Forestry websites.

Switched to the Husqvarna XP+ oil (gray bottle). It’s been working well for me for years now. My only complaint is that I wish their larger bottles had a built-in measuring system for measuring 2.6 ounces accurately. I prefer to mix a gallon at a time, but it just seems wasteful to keep buying those individual 2.6 ounce bottles. (I did order one of those “RatioRite” measuring cups, but it’s not very convenient for me.)

You may be correct, I do not use the Stihl brand oil any longer, I changed to the Echo Red Armor a couple years ago. I did watch some videos of small engine mechanics tearing down saw and blower engines that were run on different oils, and the common theme I found was that the Red Armor engines tended to be cleaner and show less scuffing and wear than any other oils. So based on that, I just started buying the Red Armor and use it in my Stihl, Husqvarna, V-Modest and Echo 2-smokers.

 

[xyz123]

Carbon or Ash was one of the complaints I was seeing about the Stihl gray bottle. Two of the top recommendations I was seeing were Echo Red Armor and Husqvarna XP+. I went with the XP+ smply because there is a hardware store near me that stocks it. I have not found Red Armor any where near me.

If you can find this VPracing. Buy it. Has built in measurer.
It's 100% synthetic and does what RA used to do when original formula. RA is still semi syn but changed to cheaper formula.

Seems to be everywhere here. Cheaper to buy then RA too.

 

[TMGT]

If you can find this VPracing. Buy it. Has built in measurer.
It's 100% synthetic and does what RA used to do when original formula. RA is still semi syn but changed to cheaper formula.

Seems to be everywhere here. Cheaper to buy then RA too.

View attachment 4251267View attachment 4251268

When did they change Red Armor formula?

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[xyz123]

When did they change Red Armor formula?

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Way back. Can tell by the bottles stickers. Silver diamonds of back ground is the new stuff. Solid black back ground is the old better stuff.

I ran it for a bit when bought a 700 dollar echo PAS. But then they changed it and just wasnt as good as the old. I wasnt the only one to notice it and others stopped using it too.

But most guys wont ever notice and no clue even looking at their OPE eq. They just follow the hype.

It's still good oil though like any FD oil is. They help clean. Just not as good as it once was.

But my big question back then why take the ester out?
VP still has it in theirs. Reading on it years ago I guess it is a pricey ingredient.

 

[TMGT]

Do you have any information on the formula change? All the data sheets I've found on it still list ester as an additive in Red Armor.

I'm still using an older 1gal bottle as I don't go through it as much as I use to.

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[xyz123]

Do you have any information on the formula change? All the data sheets I've found on it still list ester as an additive in Red Armor.

I'm still using an older 1gal bottle as I don't go through it as much as I use to.

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What year is your data sheet? Used to be on there. Link to it?

2014ish when oil company was bought that originally made it. Then new company started making it.

Spectrum Oil Co was bought out by Phillips 66 in 2014.

Copy past from old threads many years ago when others noticed.
(July 31, 2014 was acquired by Phillips 66.
Notice that pre 2014 Red Armor had a slightly different chemical
composition.)

Red Armor contains a polymer
( polybutene after 2014 /polyisobutylene before 2014 )
for making the oil adhere better to the surface of metal parts.

(Red Armor (Shindaiwa and Echo versions) is still showing no ester in the formula according to Phillips 66.)
http://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSD...anguage=EN&IssueDate=12/4/2013&SubFormat=USDS
http://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSD...anguage=EN&IssueDate=12/4/2013&SubFormat=USDS

 

[xyz123]

IMHO just run a good FD JASO rated oil they all have the cleaning properties in them.

JASO

FB corresponds to high lubricity performance but without any low-smoke technology.

FC meets the FB lubricity standards but also is a low-smoke lubricant.

FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.

Heck I sell a ton of poulan synthetic FD rated oil to local firewood cutters.

Can buy it in little bottles 40: or 50:1 still

Years back from old thread = For you Aussies the Jakmax Syn looks good. Same as Makita and Poulan Pro Synthetic. 10-30% ester.

 

[TMGT]

What year is your data sheet? Used to be on there. Link to it?

2014ish when oil company was bought that originally made it. Then new company started making it.

Spectrum Oil Co was bought out by Phillips 66 in 2014.

Copy past from old threads many years ago when others noticed.
(July 31, 2014 was acquired by Phillips 66.
Notice that pre 2014 Red Armor had a slightly different chemical
composition.)

Red Armor contains a polymer
( polybutene after 2014 /polyisobutylene before 2014 )
for making the oil adhere better to the surface of metal parts.

(Red Armor (Shindaiwa and Echo versions) is still showing no ester in the formula according to Phillips 66.)
http://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSD...anguage=EN&IssueDate=12/4/2013&SubFormat=USDS
http://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSD...anguage=EN&IssueDate=12/4/2013&SubFormat=USDS

One was from 2018, the other wasnt listed on the mods itself but was posted early 2020's can't remember the exact year. I'll see if I can find that MSDS again.

I saw people say the formula has changed but also that the company says its hasnt.

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[xyz123]

One was from 2018, the other wasnt listed on the mods itself but was posted early 2020's can't remember the exact year. I'll see if I can find that MSDS again.

I saw people say the formula has changed but also that the company says its hasnt.

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Use what you like. It dont matter to me at all.

Few of folks seen the differences of the old and new in their OPE and threads on it.

Something changed even here with new company making it.

Even this guy posted this. Just for helping adhere.

Red Armor contains a polymer
( polybutene after 2014 /polyisobutylene before 2014 )
for making the oil adhere better to the surface of metal parts.

Dont matter whatsoever to me it is FD oil and if it makes you all warm and fuzzy using it, use it then. It's FD. All that matters.

FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.

 

[xyz123]

I went and looked at a 2023 thread and there is 100's of FD rated oils that past the testing. Stihl ultra is only a FB rated oil and stated by stihl=

JASO 2 stroke oil ratings as of 1 August 2023

555 oils tested. Stihl only has one oil FD rated but not sold in US.

JASO FD oils are defined for higher detergency and engine cleanliness performance as well as meeting the lubricity and low smoke requirements. JASO FD oils deliver superior performance to both JASO FB and JASO FC in all the evaluated areas. They are designed for use in two-stroke motorcycles and small engine equipment.

 

[TMGT]

Thats fine, but just because its FD rated doesn't mean its a good oil though, just means it meets a minimum spec.

Even Stihl's response when asked about meeting ISO or JASO ratings that "JASO FD and ISO L EGD are not appropriate tests for handheld 2-cycle engines. The standards do not require any testing on high engine speed, high-temperature engines (like handheld OPE)." Which I found interesting


When you said that Red Armor changed their formula and removed the ester, I was curious and started looking into it.
I couldn't find much info from the company showing changes.

I'm close to the end of my gal. bottle of RA so was making the decision on what to buy, the price of RA has doubled some the last time I bought it!





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[xyz123]

Thats fine, but just because its FD rated doesn't mean its a good oil though, just means it meets a minimum spec.

Even Stihl's response when asked about meeting ISO or JASO ratings that "JASO FD and ISO L EGD are not appropriate tests for handheld 2-cycle engines. The standards do not require any testing on high engine speed, high-temperature engines (like handheld OPE)." Which I found interesting


When you said that Red Armor changed their formula and removed the ester, I was curious and started looking into it.
I couldn't find much info from the company showing changes.

I'm close to the end of my gal. bottle of RA so was making the decision on what to buy, the price of RA has doubled some the last time I bought it!





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Just buy a FD rated oil. If you want it to clean too.

It is same as FB FC but has the cleaning detergents.

I have not seen a bad FD oil myself. They all do what they were designed for.


FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.

 

[TMGT]

Just buy a FD rated oil. If you want it to clean too.

It is same as FB FC but has the cleaning detergents.

I have not seen a bad FD oil myself. They all do what they were designed for.


FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.

View attachment 4262868

Yes, either way it'll be FD rated. The only 2 I was considering was RA or VP, I'm more interested in the lubricity characteristics.

I have a lot personal experience with RA, non with VP, I've been looking into the RA more since your comment on changes in the formula to see if I want to continue using it.

I might try a smaller bottle of VP and see if I like it, there have been a few 2 stroke oils I won't use just due to the exhaust smell.

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[xyz123]

Yes, either way it'll be FD rated. The only 2 I was considering was RA or VP, I'm more interested in the lubricity characteristics.

I have a lot personal experience with RA, non with VP, I've been looking into the RA more since your comment on changes in the formula to see if I want to continue using it.

I might try a smaller bottle of VP and see if I like it, there have been a few 2 stroke oils I won't use just due to the exhaust smell.

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The only drawback to me on VP is they dont sell in quarts or gallons to date for some reason.

So I just mix a whole 16oz to 5 gallons at a time or 3.2 to a gal if not going to use it up.

 

[CalG]

Oh NO! An oil thread! ;-)

 

[xyz123]

Oh NO! An oil thread! ;-)

That's how I feel too.

 

[xyz123]

@TMGT I dont see where you going to save any money buying 8 16oz VP compared to 1 gal of RA. It actually comes out more. 80 v/s 60

Thats one of the drawbacks of buying VP they dont sell the quarts or gal to date. So pay the higher VP 16oz prices but cheaper then RA 16oz prices. But not their 1 gal prices.

Unless it's a convenience thing for ya.

How long does it take you to go through a 1 Gal of RA oil before mixed?


Takes me a long time to go through 8 16oz bottles of VP now days.

Plus 59.99 is retail list for RA 1 gal at my echo dealer in my group. Can get 10% off of that being ex- Military too. No clue what shipping would be.

 

[xyz123]

I picked up a quart bottle of that Marine 360 Stabil to go with my K100 I use for my boat etc. K100 has never failed me. So it will be there too.

I wont stick any of this in boat this year. It was done with K100 again.

My boat mechanic I use if needed, like said earlier always talked the marine one up. So going to see.
He didnt have anything good to say about the red.

Going to use it also in the ethanol gas for mowers to see how it does too.

Dang shop that shipped didnt protect the package at all.

I am going to pull my boat tank in spring. E-free gas that stays vented 24/7 to pour out the tank and see if anything ever got inside out of curiosity.
Been about 7 years using same tank and never ran dry.