Small engine with points?

[dodge man]

An old tiller a friend owns, probably mid 1970’s vintage. I helped him get it running about 5 years ago. It ran well then but has since developed a miss. I’m hoping it’s a dirty carb but my gut instinct says ignition. Is this thing old enough to have points and condenser? How tough is it to replace them? I did this in a small engines class in high school but I graduated in 1980. It seems like you needed a fly wheel puller and some kind of electric device to set the points.

 

[RandyT]

Briggs went to magnetron ignition in 1981 which was the electronic ignition module system. Look for the model. type, code on the blower housing. The first 2 digits of the code will be the year of manufacture of the engine. The easier thing to do would be to convert to the electronic ignition and not worry about even removing the points under the flywheel. Have to be careful because there a few engines with air vane governor that will not convert to the latest ignition module version.

 

[2manyrocks]

That is a Troy Bilt tiller made in Troy, NY back when those were premium quality tillers. My guess is maybe mid to late 1980s to me. Still has the foam type air cleaner and a carb that can be adjusted. It may already have electronic ignition. May just need to clean the gas tank and carb or replace a spark plug.

 

[dodge man]

I think it has an internal governor.

 

[dfkrug]

It seems like you needed a fly wheel puller and some kind of electric device to set the points.

Yeah, that is a rear-tine tiller worth saving.

You don't need any special tools to set the points. Getting the flywheel off to get at them is easy on some machines, and harder on others.

You can get an upgrade electronic ignition, as RANDY suggests, but it is often quite easy to check the points and get them working well. Some of these older flathead motors don't seal the water out of the points box very well in my experience.

I recently replaced the points on my Onan generator cuz the pivot axle wears and gets sloppy. No need to go electronic.

 

[Williy]

You can use a match book cover to set the points the match
book covers were used to set points in cars and trucks back
in the days
Don't forget to change the capacitor/condenser when it gets
hot you will have problems

willy

 

[CalG]

An old tiller a friend owns, probably mid 1970’s vintage. I helped him get it running about 5 years ago. It ran well then but has since developed a miss. I’m hoping it’s a dirty carb but my gut instinct says ignition. Is this thing old enough to have points and condenser? How tough is it to replace them? I did this in a small engines class in high school but I graduated in 1980. It seems like you needed a fly wheel puller and some kind of electric device to set the points.
View attachment 3397225

Troy-Built Pony

I have one also. Each spring I need to pull the flywheel and dress the points. Fires first pull after choke.

It's not that hard!
But I do keep the solid state sensor on hand "just in case".

 

[CalG]

On a morbid aside..

One spring, about six years ago, I pulled out the Pony tiller (bequeathed from my wife's father)
The pull starter was noticeably sluggish.
As it didn't start right up, I wheeled it to the shop to dress the points. Pulling the recoil cover to expose the flywheel, What remained of a mouse nest was encountered. With the debris, was a half dozen eviscerated juvenile mice and remnants.

Yuckk

 

[DJ54]

While you have the shroud off to get to the points, it doesn't hurt to polish up the flywheel magnet, and pickup on the coil. Remove the coil pickup by removing the 2 long hex head screws holding it on. Some fine sandpaper will dress up both, but anymore I use my air die grinder and gasket removal disc. Wipe them off then coat with WD-40, or light coat of dielectric grease to prevent rust.

To set the airgap, reinstall the coil pickup and snug the screws just enough to hold it up as high as it will go. Rolling the magnet on the flywheel 90º to the left of the pickup, place an index card on top of the magnet on the flywheel holding it down to conform with the flywheel, and roll up directly under the pickup. Loosen the screws and magnet will pull the pickup down. Snug screws, then rotate flywheel to remove the index card, and you're done. B&S has those exact instructions in their old engine manuals.

 

[dodge man]

We tore into the tiller today, rusty gas tank. This was given to him a few years ago and had sat unused for over 20 years roughly. He took the tank off and cleaned it out as best he could and coated the inside but it rusted again.

 

[2manyrocks]

Sometimes best to repower with a HF predator instead of chasing diagnosis and old parts.

 

[dfkrug]

We tore into the tiller today, rusty gas tank. This was given to him a few years ago and had sat unused for over 20 years roughly. He took the tank off and cleaned it out as best he could and coated the inside but it rusted again.

I have had some coated steel tanks on ATVs, and the coatings did not hold up well with 10% ethanol gas. If one is more fortunate, the rust (and the first pinholes) are mostly at the bottom of the tank and it can be patched and welded. Some early machines had soldered-in bungs in the fuel tanks, and that resulted in electrolysis.

I have also resorted to fabbing a new tank with stainless steel, but that is best when it is covered up with plastic panels.

This is where plastic tanks are clearly better, but sadly some new equipment still employ steel.

 

[2manyrocks]

Many of these old Troy Bilt tillers have sat out in the weather and had ethanol gas used in them. As long as the transmission and tines are still good, it's possible to end up with a better tiller than you can buy elsewhere today by repowering them with new engines that start more easily, run quieter, and don't burn as much gas. I've resisted putting a predator on my Horse model for years thinking that the 7hp Kohler is a fine engine and wanting to keep my tiller all OEM, but I'm tired of the hard starting, dealing with the points and condenser, etc. So my tiller is getting a new HF engine.

 

[Mike1955]

Many of these old Troy Bilt tillers have sat out in the weather and had ethanol gas used in them. As long as the transmission and tines are still good, it's possible to end up with a better tiller than you can buy elsewhere today by repowering them with new engines that start more easily, run quieter, and don't burn as much gas. I've resisted putting a predator on my Horse model for years thinking that the 7hp Kohler is a fine engine and wanting to keep my tiller all OEM, but I'm tired of the hard starting, dealing with the points and condenser, etc. So my tiller is getting a new HF engine.

2manyrocks. Let us know how it holds up for you. I’m on my third harbor freight motor on my tiller. Work great at first. Then lock up

 

[dodge man]

He was looking at a repower but it has two shafts coming out of the engine. I think ones for reverse, it’s a pretty unique engine setup that a repower probably wouldn’t work without a lot of fabrication.

 

[2manyrocks]

I would like to see a picture. Have not seen that on a tiller before.

 

[dodge man]

Here is a picture of it. The larger pulley on the right part of the engine case is part of the reverse setup. I’m not sure but I don’t think it’s a powered shaft but it does go into the engine. The main drive shaft has two pulleys and the belt can be swapped for slightly higher or lower ground speed.

 

[Jstpssng]

That's an old one. I had a Horse with a similar setup, but don't remember much about it. I do recall swapping the engine for a 5HP Tecumseh which my father had lying around.

 

[2manyrocks]

I suspect, but can't totally assure that Troy Bilt used commonly available engines with the same bolt patterns so they could offer engine options using the same mounting and accessory bolt patterns. It's possible that the reverse pulley would fit in the accessory mounting bolt hole on the HF predator, but I don't know for sure.

Also, Surplus Center currently has some new Kohler engines that might bolt up.

 

[Williy]

JB weld works. My gas tank on my 1974 Ford pickup
sprung a leak rusted and started to leak so cleaned the
area aro;und the rust spot and covered it with JB weld it
lasted for 10 years that I replaced the tank.

willy