2025 Ram trucks

[Blue Mule]

There is no gasoline engine that I've seen, turbo charged or not, that makes 3 times the torque value vs. horsepower the way that a diesel does. My uncle was just commenting last night about how he accidentally pulled into a ditch in the snow. His Cummins just idled itself in reverse out of the ditch. With a gas engine, RPM would have needed to be much higher to provide the torque to back out...in other words you can get the same tire motion with little to no throttle input on a diesel. That's why they are more fuel efficient...they don't need high RPM. It has more to do with piston stroke and compression ratio which are both greater in a diesel engine.

 

[nisaacs]

Off idle torque/clutch engagement torque, one and the same.

B6.7 is 400, 6.4 Hemi has a maximum torque of 429...

https://www.cummins.com/engines/b67-2021#tab-navigation

 

[Snobdds]

There is no gasoline engine that I've seen, turbo charged or not, that makes 3 times the torque value vs. horsepower the way that a diesel does. My uncle was just commenting last night about how he accidentally pulled into a ditch in the snow. His Cummins just idled itself in reverse out of the ditch. With a gas engine, RPM would have needed to be much higher to provide the torque to back out...in other words you can get the same tire motion with little to no throttle input on a diesel. That's why they are more fuel efficient...they don't need high RPM. It has more to do with piston stroke and compression ratio which are both greater in a diesel engine.

I bet next you'll tell me a 6.7 can produce more power than a 3.5 liter engine.

Of course what you said is true. It's all obvious to anyone with a room temp IQ that has driven both a diesel and a gas engine.

What I'm failing to understand is...what is off idle torque?

Furthermore, your getting stuck example. Just last weekend I was parking the truck in a ski resort lot that had a slight pitch down. As soon as I pulled in I felt the weight of the truck shift to the front. The rear end had zero weight on it. So how does one get out before spinning the tires to create an ice spot under the tires? All I did was put my foot on the break and apply off idle torque to trick the torque management and the traction control to think the spinning wheels had zero traction and it would shift the power to the wheels with traction. I showed the kid how to be smarter than a microchip.

 

[Topzide]

They also added a 7th injector to the emissions system instead of fueling the cylinders to get it "hot".

 

[dieselscout80]

I bet next you'll tell me a 6.7 can produce more power than a 3.5 liter engine.

Of course what you said is true. It's all obvious to anyone with a room temp IQ that has driven both a diesel and a gas engine.

What I'm failing to understand is...what is off idle torque?

Furthermore, your getting stuck example. Just last weekend I was parking the truck in a ski resort lot that had a slight pitch down. As soon as I pulled in I felt the weight of the truck shift to the front. The rear end had zero weight on it. So how does one get out before spinning the tires to create an ice spot under the tires? All I did was put my foot on the break and apply off idle torque to trick the torque management and the traction control to think the spinning wheels had zero traction and it would shift the power to the wheels with traction. I showed the kid how to be smarter than a microchip.

I only guess his meaning, but I would take it to high torque at low RPMs aka just above idle RPMs.

Straight six cylinder engines are known for having more torque at lower RPMs than V8s.

 

[Snobdds]

I only guess his meaning, but I would take it to high torque at low RPMs aka just above idle RPMs.

Straight six cylinder engines are known for having more torque at lower RPMs than V8s.

Like I said earlier...It's the turbos that do that.

Straight six's are more efficient about getting the exhaust to spool the turbo than a V8. The down side to that is a straight six is spooled out faster than a V8, meaning a straight 6 runs out of air well before a V8. The top end of a straight 6 is lower than a V8.

So, which one is better?

Also this is a debate the Hay man and I have had for years. He was chumming the waters for me.

 

[Hay Dude]

Have you looked at a dyno for a boosted gas engine? How is that any different than a inline 6?

It’s not.
I guess I assumed you were talking about V-8s and the ongoing comparisons you and I make between the in-line 6 and the V-8.

 

[Hay Dude]

Maybe, just maybe...off idle torque is created based upon how fast a turbo spools up?

Just spitballing here.

It can be. Ford makes sequential (not dual) turbos on their 6.4L V-8 diesel.
That helped the V-8 get spooled up faster, but made the turbo set-up more complex, unreliable and expensive.

 

[Hay Dude]

Like I said earlier...It's the turbos that do that.

Straight six's are more efficient about getting the exhaust to spool the turbo than a V8. The down side to that is a straight six is spooled out faster than a V8, meaning a straight 6 runs out of air well before a V8. The top end of a straight 6 is lower than a V8.

So, which one is better?

Also this is a debate the Hay man and I have had for years. He was chumming the waters for me.

But I maintain a in line 6 makes more torque at lower RPM than a V-8. They always have.
Then there’s the greater bearing support and all the other advantages, but we won’t go into that.

 

[Snobdds]

It can be. Ford makes sequential (not dual) turbos on their 6.4L V-8 diesel.
That helped the V-8 get spooled up faster, but made the turbo set-up more complex, unreliable and expensive.

I think we just discovered off idle torque is a function of turbo efficiency through the RPM band.

 

[Snobdds]

But I maintain a in line 6 makes more torque at lower RPM than a V-8. They always have.
Then there’s the greater bearing support and all the other advantages, but we won’t go into that.

They do. But straight 6's also make less torque at the higher end of the RPM range. I guess we have to now figure out if a wider RPM range is bad?

 

[Hay Dude]

I bet next you'll tell me a 6.7 can produce more power than a 3.5 liter engine.

Of course what you said is true. It's all obvious to anyone with a room temp IQ that has driven both a diesel and a gas engine.

What I'm failing to understand is...what is off idle torque?

Furthermore, your getting stuck example. Just last weekend I was parking the truck in a ski resort lot that had a slight pitch down. As soon as I pulled in I felt the weight of the truck shift to the front. The rear end had zero weight on it. So how does one get out before spinning the tires to create an ice spot under the tires? All I did was put my foot on the break and apply off idle torque to trick the torque management and the traction control to think the spinning wheels had zero traction and it would shift the power to the wheels with traction. I showed the kid how to be smarter than a microchip.

Dude, it’s how much torque the engine makes just above idle.
It’s something truckers value in an engine.

When hauling heavy loads from a dead stop, it’s the torque you get to get the load moving without having to rev the motor, like you would have to do with a gas truck, to get the same torque.

 

[Hay Dude]

They do. But straight 6's also make less torque at the higher end of the RPM range. I guess we have to now figure out if a wider RPM range is bad?

I haven’t found the need for much more than 2500RPM driving any large truck.
A V-8 gas trucks high revving capability is of little use to a 6cyl diesel truck operator because a low reving, higher torque diesel doesn’t need it.
It’s also why they use much less fuel.

 

[Snobdds]

Dude, it’s how much torque the engine makes just above idle.
It’s something truckers value in an engine.

When hauling heavy loads from a dead stop, it’s the torque you get to get the load moving without having to rev the motor, like you would have to do with a gas truck, to get the same torque.

Then why do transmissions not have just two gears to keep the engine in the powerband perpetually off idle?

 

[Hay Dude]

I think we just discovered off idle torque is a function of turbo efficiency through the RPM band.

No. Because the same would be true for naturally aspirated trucks, too.
A 6cyl NA truck makes more torque at low RPM than a V-8
A 6cyl turbo diesel truck would make more torque at low RPM than a turbo diesel V-8.


Can’t wait for someone to sho a picture of a diesel v-8 with turbos. There’s like 10 of them left in the USA.

 

[Hay Dude]

Then why do transmissions not have just two gears to keep the engine in the powerband perpetually off idle?

I’m not talking transmissions, I’m talking about low rpm power from a 6 versus a v-8.
Because you need more gears to increase efficiency.
We did have 2 & 3 speed automatics at one time. Now they’re 6 to 10.

 

[Snobdds]

I haven’t found the need for much more than 2500RPM driving any large truck.
A V-8 gas trucks high revving capability is of little use to a 6cyl diesel truck operator because a low reving, higher torque diesel doesn’t need it.
It’s also why they use much less fuel.

You wouldn't know if you needed more because the gearing is keeping you below 2500 RPM.

 

[Hay Dude]

You wouldn't know if you needed more because the gearing is keeping you below 2500 RPM.

And thats a good thing. Reduces wear & fuel consumption.

Let’s roll back to the 2025 ram, shall we?

 

[Snobdds]

I’m not talking transmissions, I’m talking about low rpm power from a 6 versus a v-8.
Because you need more gears to increase efficiency.
We did have 2 & 3 speed automatics at one time. Now they’re 6 to 10.

There is only one thing that keeps an engine in the powerband...that is the transmission, not your foot.

 

[Snobdds]

And thats a good thing. Reduces wear & fuel consumption.

Let’s roll back to the 2025 ram, shall we?

But doesn't more bearing surface create more heat and wear?