Project Farm, counterfeit batteries.

[buckeyefarmer]

I have replaced norelco batteries, just solder in a new one,

 

[California]

I have replaced norelco batteries, just solder in a new one,

Yeah, I've done maybe a half dozen over 50+ years. But this last Norelco shaver seems designed with no way to get the battery out without destroying the circuit board.

It was a promotional 'special edition' on closeout at Fry's, discounted way below normal, likely mfr overstock. (I'm cheap!) It works same as any other Norelco. Internally it really looks like they designed it to prevent battery replacement.

Amazon.com

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Yeah, I've done maybe a half dozen over 50+ years. But this last Norelco shaver seems designed with no way to get the battery out without destroying the circuit board.

It was a promotional 'special edition' on closeout at Fry's, discounted way below normal, likely mfr overstock. (I'm cheap!) It works same as any other Norelco. Internally it really looks like they designed it to prevent battery replacement.

Amazon.com

I’m sure it is. They want to sell new one.

 

[Jstpssng]

I've got a couple of Dewalt knockoffs that I bought in 2020, just as things started getting crazy.


I didn't realize they were coming from China until I saw the receipt on PayPal.
They have worked fine so far, although lately they haven't kicked the charger off the way they should.

The odd thing is that the only correspondence I ever had with the company was when they got payment preapproved from PayPal. They never sent a confirmation letter or shipping notice... and I never was actually charged for them.

 

[MRTOES]

We live in a time of counterfeit government. The number calling you is not real....does the government care.....NO....Goods are counterfeit, who cares.....One thing is real....the money lobbyist use to grease the wheels......of government....

 

[Oaktree]

It's been many years, I'm afraid I can't give a link.
As for those nah sayers - these batteries were larger in size and had a nice charge indicator on them. I have been working them hard for years and my wife has been abusing them lol, still ticking.
Sure there are imposters and sub quality batteries out there. You do your own research and ultimately you do you.

Just for grins I Googled Ryobi replacement batteries. Some aftermarket ones showed up at walmart.com, reviews weren't very good. Didn't see any others listed.
I'll just take advantage of Fathers day sales at HD and get the real deal.

 

[CliffordK]

I recently opened a 2ah oem black and decker battery pack, the battery's were 1.3ah, would love to know how BD got that rating.

A while ago John Deere lost a class action lawsuit for over-rating the HP of their lawn tractors. I'd think that a major manufacturer selling improperly rated battery packs could land them in hot water. One or two batteries don't amount to much, but a class action lawsuit about millions of batteries could hurt.

On the flip side bad counterfeits are out of control on Amazon

I've read that one of the problems is Amazon puts all the 'identical' products offered by different vendors into the same bin. So when the picker fills your order, it's random luck whether he pulls genuine or counterfeit out of that bin.

Mixing vendors for Amazon Fulfillment could make warranty claims and disputes problematic.

Perhaps it is time for the US Government to force certification such as UL-Listed for all electronics.

Then a company like Amazon could find themselves in hot water if they sell items that are either not UL-Listed, or have fake certification credentials.

For items that are less than 20 years since release, and are still covered under patents and trademarks, then the companies need to also go after Amazon (who is looking the other way).

Now, if it is listed as "For XYZ brand", then it may get around trademark issues, but may still be hit by UL certs.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

So much fake stuff now on Amazon, they consider it a part of MSM.

 

[BarryTX]

I've got a couple of Dewalt knockoffs that I bought in 2020, just as things started getting crazy.
View attachment 876190

I didn't realize they were coming from China until I saw the receipt on PayPal.
They have worked fine so far, although lately they haven't kicked the charger off the way they should.

The odd thing is that the only correspondence I ever had with the company was when they got payment preapproved from PayPal. They never sent a confirmation letter or shipping notice... and I never was actually charged for them.

Some companies there mastered the copying.

 

[Muhammad]

Politics removed

 

[goeduck]

I'd be worried about cheap Lithium batteries starting a fire.

 

[dodge man]

I assume most of these fake batteries are coming from overseas. It’s tough to shut them down or sue them. If you do lock them out they just change the company name and keep going.

 

[CliffordK]

I assume most of these fake batteries are coming from overseas. It’s tough to shut them down or sue them. If you do lock them out they just change the company name and keep going.

Companies like Alibaba or AliExpress don't seem to care.

E-Bay is a mess because they don't actually handle the merchandise. Still, they could prioritize quality if they wished.

Amazon has their Fulfilled by Amazon. If they mix products from different vendors, then it could well be a mess, but they would seem to have the most to lose if they're intentionally looking the other way.

Unfortunately, the packaging of some of the fakes looks very good.

They could do quality control, and randomly sample say 1 out of 100 products from each vendor, especially new vendors.

 

[ponytug]

you don't need to desolder all of them generally if its an all series pack, its pretty easy to find the bad one, spot welding can be a bit of a learning process as well.

That was my original hope. I opened it up expecting to find a series pack that I could replace a bad cell or the whole set. Like @California's experience, the design had each cell individually embedded into the board with irregular tabs and measuring the voltages across the cells wasn't informative. I suspect that the board equalizes each cell, because the appliance, a Black&Decker "Flex" hand vacuum, runs out of juice, shuts down and then 30 seconds later has more juice, lather, rinse, repeat.

The board and cell integration was the most complicated that I have ever seen, although the board itself was a very low cost board. My apologies for not taking photos.

All the best,

Peter

 

[dodge man]

The factory battery packs he cracked opened had chips and circuit boards in them. I think these are called BMS (battery management systems?). I think these control the charge rate, maybe slow it down for the last 10%, and help keep the batteries more equally charged. I’ve learned a lot of this from e bike forums which sone of the e bike battery packs can cost $1000 or more.

I suspect the fakes don’t contain this or if it does lower quality and that’s why they lack in performance.

 

[LittleBill21]

The factory battery packs he cracked opened had chips and circuit boards in them. I think these are called BMS (battery management systems?). I think these control the charge rate, maybe slow it down for the last 10%, and help keep the batteries more equally charged. I’ve learned a lot of this from e bike forums which sone of the e bike battery packs can cost $1000 or more.

I suspect the fakes don’t contain this or if it does lower quality and that’s why they lack in performance.

all lithium cells, use a bms correct, what it does is charge each cell individually so they don't become "unbalanced" this can cause stress to the individual cell which can ultimately cause it to catch fire. the bms can also monitor the amount of current allowed, the temperature of the pack, and the voltage cutoff point so the cells don't go bad.

 

[LittleBill21]

here is what the inside of my BD 20v 2ah pack looks like.Ignore the brown cell, it was used to replace the bad cell in the pack