Truck winches

[Rustyiron]

I have that option, but that would be crazy expensive

It's pretty easy to find a used mechanical winch around here.
Are you thinking about the 5500 or the IH for the winch?

 

[Hay Dude]

It's pretty easy to find a used mechanical winch around here.
Are you thinking about the 5500 or the IH for the winch?

5500
I may stop at my buddy’s hydraulic shop and see if theres a way to utilize my PTO. I paid for the dang thing. Tend to think it will be very expensive to add a compact pump & tank and all the other things. Probably a lot more weight than a 125 electric winch, though.

I did not see a Mile Marker power steering pump winch in the load rating I was looking for (18K +)

 

[LouNY]

I figured out the power problem all together! No battery, hydraulic, or direct PTO drive. Mobile use for any vehicle, including mowers and bicycles!

View attachment 838204

If you had ever tried to use a chain fall outdoors in the mud and grass and trash, especially trying to use it in a horizontal position, dang what a cluster **** situation that deteriorates to in a hurry.

 

[WinterDeere]

I figured out the power problem all together! No battery, hydraulic, or direct PTO drive. Mobile use for any vehicle, including mowers and bicycles!

View attachment 838204

I gotta see that bicycle!

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

If you had ever tried to use a chain fall outdoors in the mud and grass and trash, especially trying to use it in a horizontal position, dang what a cluster **** situation that deteriorates to in a hurry.

It was just a joke. But i have used one to pull out a crape myrtle stump for a neighbor of my parents. Had one end on my truck in the road and the other on the stump. I pulled for a while not getting anywhere, took a short rest and saw that I had pulled my truck sideways over the curb and into the yard.... oops.

 

[Smokeydog]

MileMarker makes 18,000# hydraulic winch.
12,000# hydraulic winch is the highest for use with power steering pump. Weight 98#. The power steering is about 5hp pump. Steering automatically has priority over winch in self recovery. Same type of hand control as an electric winch. Could be totally remote if needed.

Compared to PTO or hydraulic winches, electric are quite puny. Electric winches pull 2-3’ at capacity then need to cool 10 minutes. OK for self recovery but if doing tree work exasperating slow. Expensive if you have help standing around waiting on the winch. PPP One high value tree paid 2.5X what the winch and bumper cost.

Over twice the cost than 20+ years ago but so is everything else.

The tree surgeon company that bought my Smart Grapple skid steer attachment with hydraulic warn winch loves it. Got a contract to help county road department removing high hazard trees. Critical equipment for their type of work.

 

[WinterDeere]

MileMarker makes 18,000# hydraulic winch.
12,000# hydraulic winch is the highest for use with power steering pump. Weight 98#. The power steering is about 5hp pump. Steering automatically has priority over winch in self recovery. Same type of hand control as an electric winch. Could be totally remote if needed.

Compared to PTO or hydraulic winches, electric are quite puny. Electric winches pull 2-3’ at capacity then need to cool 10 minutes. OK for self recovery but if doing tree work exasperating slow. Expensive if you have help standing around waiting on the winch. PPP One high value tree paid 2.5X what the winch and bumper cost.

Over twice the cost than 20+ years ago but so is everything else.

The tree surgeon company that bought my Smart Grapple skid steer attachment with hydraulic warn winch loves it. Got a contract to help county road department removing high hazard trees. Critical equipment for their type of work.

Excellent info, and I'm not arguing with any of it, except to say that I have never needed to pause to cool my electric winch. I suppose that's because it's exceedingly rare to ever even approach full capacity of the winch for any extended period of time, they're operating way below that the majority of the time.

I have my electric winch mounted to the front of a tandem-axle trailer, and use it for skidding logs onto the trailer. I usually try to get the trailer within 20 feet of the load, so I'm only pulling 20 feet + trailer length = 35 feet total, times 6 - 10 logs per trip. But sometimes obstacles dictate pulls of 100 feet or more, times 6 - 10 logs, and the winch has never been my limiting factor. Batteries are occasionally an issue, even with two big deep-cycles constantly charging from the truck, but never the winch!

 

[sea2summit]

 

[Rustyiron]

5500
I may stop at my buddy’s hydraulic shop and see if theres a way to utilize my PTO. I paid for the dang thing. Tend to think it will be very expensive to add a compact pump & tank and all the other things. Probably a lot more weight than a 125 electric winch, though.

I did not see a Mile Marker power steering pump winch in the load rating I was looking for (18K +)

I agree with the components. Heck there's a good bit of work finding a mounting spot for a small reservoir and a pair of control cables for engagement of the pto and a valve. This may be handled electrically but that all adds to the costs.
Maybe a designated pair of batteries and an isolator would be cheaper and just go electric winch knowing the limits during extreme use.
I always dreamed of a "wet kit" on my f450 (when I was setting up the pto dump) with a pair of outlets front and rear for a hydraulic "fun"!

 

[ning]

That's a lot cheaper than what I spent on my warm zeon 10k.

450+ amp draw is huge though.

[I read first 4 pages of the thread]

I just got a HF 12k winch; apparently it'll pull over 400A. I'd imagine a 20k winch will pull more, unless it's going that much slower.

I plumbed mine with 2/0 pure copper to the front & back of my truck (particularly since the rear of the truck is 25' of wire away from the batteries; the wire alone cost 1/2 as much as the winch).
The winch can connect at either end of the truck using Anderson connectors; I replaced the winch-end wire with my coincidentally perfect length leftover pieces of wire (I'd bought 30' of wire for my CC LB truck, some goes from battery to front bumper, more from battery to rear bumper, and a final little bit from winch electric terminals to an Anderson connector; pics available).

@Hay Dude consider a hydraulic winch that's plumbed through the power steering. For a long time I had thoughts of going that route. Hydraulic winches have a much higher duty cycle than electric - most electric winches have a 5-10% duty cycle as they're just for getting you a little ways; the only downside is you can't winch with a dead engine, but that's got to be one of the more esoteric needs (example - mile marker).

 

[Hay Dude]

[I read first 4 pages of the thread]

I just got a HF 12k winch; apparently it'll pull over 400A. I'd imagine a 20k winch will pull more, unless it's going that much slower.

I plumbed mine with 2/0 pure copper to the front & back of my truck (particularly since the rear of the truck is 25' of wire away from the batteries; the wire alone cost 1/2 as much as the winch).
The winch can connect at either end of the truck using Anderson connectors; I replaced the winch-end wire with my coincidentally perfect length leftover pieces of wire (I'd bought 30' of wire for my CC LB truck, some goes from battery to front bumper, more from battery to rear bumper, and a final little bit from winch electric terminals to an Anderson connector; pics available).

@Hay Dude consider a hydraulic winch that's plumbed through the power steering. For a long time I had thoughts of going that route. Hydraulic winches have a much higher duty cycle than electric - most electric winches have a 5-10% duty cycle as they're just for getting you a little ways; the only downside is you can't winch with a dead engine, but that's got to be one of the more esoteric needs (example - mile marker).

I’d like to, but so far only Mile Markers does that and its 18K and very expensive.

Mile Marker does make a 15K winch for $1,050 but I don’t know if it’s any good…

Just looked at Warren Winches. All I can say is WOW! They are more than double the prices of everyone else's.

 

[MTGreen]

Even then, you wonder how long before wire melt on a 450 AMP draw?

Do you have a dual battery setup? That would be a relatively cheap solution and would negate the amp draw issue assuming you used appropriate sized cabling

 

[WinterDeere]

I just got a HF 12k winch; apparently it'll pull over 400A... I plumbed mine with 2/0 pure copper to the front & back of my truck...

#00 is rated only 225 - 300 amps, depending on insulation type/temperature. It's probably fine if you're never doing 400A for more than a few seconds, just be aware. Have a fuse right at the battery on a rig like this, so if you start melting (or chafing) insulation, you don't light the place up like the sun.

The same #00 copper runs .092 m-ohm/ft, so you're dropping almost a full volt over each "leg" of the circuit at 400A over 25 feet, or 2 volts total if ground return to battery has similar resistance. That's a lot of drop on a 12 volt system (15%), but you're probably not actually hitting 400A draw frequently enough for it to be a real concern.

 

[MTGreen]

I mounted a 300amp marine type circuit breaker in the engine compartment on my HF Badland 12k winch despite the 400+ amp momentary draw rating.
Also acts as an on-off switch to keep power out of the winch even if the wireless remote gets activated accidentally.
I have yet to pop the breaker even when stalling the winch when pulling out a palm tree stump.
I would recommend one -a lot better than the chintzy serial/parallel multiple auto-reset breaker setup that's not waterproof and comes with the unit. Maybe the high dollar units have better circuit protection (?).
Here's the one I have:

Amazon.com: BULVACK 300 Amp Marine Circuit Breaker for Boat Trolling with Manual Reset, Water Proof, 12V- 48V DC : Automotive

Buy BULVACK 300 Amp Marine Circuit Breaker for Boat Trolling with Manual Reset, Water Proof, 12V- 48V DC: Circuit Breaker - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[WinterDeere]

I mounted a 300amp marine type circuit breaker in the engine compartment on my HF Badland 12k winch despite the 400+ amp momentary draw rating....I have yet to pop the breaker even when stalling the winch when pulling out a palm tree stump.

That makes sense. I'm not sure where you'd get the time/load curves for that particular breaker, but something like 2 minutes continuous draw would be a common time to trip at just 133% of rated current. Even at double rated current, it might take 60 seconds to trip a thermal breaker.

As always, size your breaker to the wiring, not the load. So, if running #00 with 90°C jacket, the 300A breaker is the perfect match, assuming the breaker also has 90°C terminal rating.

Ideally, you're running a breaker with both thermal and magnetic trip mechanisms. The thermal mechanism handles wiring overloads, to avoid melting your wire insulation or connectors, and the magnetic mechanism trips the thing at millisecond speed in event of a short-circuit. The magnetic trip mechanism is why you see "10kA" printed on the face of most residential breakers, they will instantly trip at 10,000 amps, no matter whether it's a 15, 20, or 30A thermal trip.

Also acts as an on-off switch to keep power out of the winch even if the wireless remote gets activated accidentally.

Good practice!

 

[Hay Dude]

Do you have a dual battery setup? That would be a relatively cheap solution and would negate the amp draw issue assuming you used appropriate sized cabling

Yeah the Ram has dual batteries. I think all diesels have them.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

The winch can connect at either end of the truck using Anderson connectors...

...most electric winches have a 5-10% duty cycle as they're just for getting you a little ways...

Have you looked at the rating of those connectors? They may be underrated, but still.

I have apparently never had a "most" electric winch. And I've done a fair amount of winch testing, both for work and in real life. Okay, the latter wasn't testing per se, but lots of actual use as necessary.

 

[ning]

#00 is rated only 225 - 300 amps, depending on insulation type/temperature. It's probably fine if you're never doing 400A for more than a few seconds, just be aware. Have a fuse right at the battery on a rig like this, so if you start melting (or chafing) insulation, you don't light the place up like the sun.

The same #00 copper runs .092 m-ohm/ft, so you're dropping almost a full volt over each "leg" of the circuit at 400A over 25 feet, or 2 volts total if ground return to battery has similar resistance. That's a lot of drop on a 12 volt system (15%), but you're probably not actually hitting 400A draw frequently enough for it to be a real concern.

"Rated" is for continual use.

Surprisingly, winches get installed every day with 2awg wire (that's the norm). I'm pretty sure it's because of the 5% duty cycle, which as you noted "as long as it's not for more than a few seconds it probably qualifies.

A starter motor can pull 500+ amps. What gauge wire do you use for that? *Way* smaller than what's "rated" for that draw.

 

[ning]

Have you looked at the rating of those connectors? They may be underrated, but still.

I have apparently never had a "most" electric winch. And I've done a fair amount of winch testing, both for work and in real life. Okay, the latter wasn't testing per se, but lots of actual use as necessary.

The SB350 connector is rated for up to 500A (continuous, of course).

Likely your electric winches had at 5% duty cycle, you just used them like everyone does and never bothered to check. Besides that 5% is at maximum load. Funny thing about winch duty cycles is that they match what the battery in most applications can deliver anyways, though obviously a dual battery setup can go longer.

 

[WinterDeere]

"Rated" is for continual use.

Surprisingly, winches get installed every day with 2awg wire (that's the norm). I'm pretty sure it's because of the 5% duty cycle, which as you noted "as long as it's not for more than a few seconds it probably qualifies.

A starter motor can pull 500+ amps. What gauge wire do you use for that? *Way* smaller than what's "rated" for that draw.

Yep. As noted, those are continuous ratings. The difference between an owner wiring up their own winch and a manufacturer using under-rated wire on an OEM starter is that the manufacturer has the tools and wherewithal to do a transient thermal analysis, essentially determining the temperature rise during the time of applied current.

Like I said in the previous post, "probably fine... just be aware".

But the voltage drop I cited was real, and maybe more of an issue for someone running 25 feet down and another 25 feet back. 2 volts on a 12V system is a lot of drop right at the moment when you're demanding maximum pull. Getting at least one battery closer to the winch would resolve this.