Orec tracked flail vs Grillo wheeled flail vs ride on

[2manyrocks]

I have some hillside areas I'd like to mow. Currently own both a Gravely walkbehind with 30" rough cut mower and a Bachtold rough cut. Already own a Kubota L2501 and MX5200. Don't want to use either Kubota on the hillside.

I tend not to use the Gravely because of the weight.

The Bachtold starts easily and does a good job of cutting material off at the base, but doesn't grind it up because it has an open deck that isn't enclosed on the sides. It's exhausting to push the handbars to lift it up over material, drop it down, and then pull it back by hand to cut up the material. It has a single forward speed and no power reverse. So what tends to happen is cut briars pile up at my feet and then I have to pull it back to chop them up. I use it as a last resort and never look forward to using it. Plus it has thrown a few rocks at my shins even though the rubber flap is in place that is supposed to stop that from happening.

I've been wondering if a flail mower would do an easier job of chopping up 6' tall briars and honeysuckle. The nearest BCS/Grillo dealer says he has a Grillo 110 with less than 100 hours that he could sell me with a 28" Bittante flail mower for about $5400. The list price of a new one with the flail would be around $6,300.

Then I noticed Orec America has a 25" flail driven by tracks. The nearest dealer didn't give me an exact quote other than to say it would be about $6,000 plus $300 shipping. The dealer has one to rent for $180/day so I could at least test one before buying. Both the Grillo and Orec have Honda engines, but the Orec is 8.4 hp vs 13hp on the Grillo.

I tend to think the tracks would do a better job of being able to push the flail into/over brush, but there is a substantial difference in HP between the Orec and the Grillo. The Orec advertises .6 mph in lowest gear vs .8 mph for the Grillo. I could see the slower speed as being better for allowing the flail time to chop up brush.

I don't care about other implements. This would be for brush cutting only.

Another option is there is a Steiner 410 with a 5' finish mower with 550 hours on the tractor and a new Honda engine listed for $8500. It does not have the two speed gear range of later Steiners and a finish mower would not be the best option for cutting brush. However, it would be nice to ride instead of walk if the Steiner could do the job. I don't think I have the option of testing it on my property before buying. The dealer does not have a brush cutter in stock to fit this model.

Final option would be a Power Trac PT 425 with a 48" brush cutter. The price is $17,750 plus shipping. I hate to spend this much just to mow a hillside.

Mulling this over. Would appreciate any thoughts to help think this through.

 

[ArlyA]

Orec makes good machines. I tested one a few years ago. Can't comment on hill sides but it did look low.

 

[2manyrocks]

This is an example of the tangled brush pile I want to cut. There's a 48" step post sticking 42" out of the ground for perspective.

This is my Bachtold and this is my Gravely. If I were to try to cut this pile with either machine, I expect the cutting deck would push itself into the pile at cutting deck level until the brush pushed against the engine area stopping forward progress. Then I'd expect the pile to be severed from the ground, but still suspended above it in a tangled mess.

I could reverse out of the pile with the Gravely F/R lever, but would have to drag the Bachtold backwards. If there were even a way of adding a power reverse to the Bachtold, it would be a significant improvement in being able to work the pile down to shreds.

But is it even realistic to hope that even a tracked flail mower would be able to knock this pile down and then shred it?

For that matter, although I might have hopes of being able to lift the brush cutter on the PT425 enough to drop it down on this pile, I'm not so sure lifting the cutter very high on a slope is a good idea.

 

[ArlyA]

Here is one of the machines we tested.

 

[2manyrocks]

That Orec Cyclone is the one I am interested in. I think they paint them green today. What was your experience?

 

[ArlyA]

That Orec Cyclone is the one I am interested in. I think they paint them green today. What was your experience?

I'd buy one if we needed it for our trails. They make machines for real work and there roots is in the small ag fields in Japan.. At the demo we attended was a Orec company owner from japan.

 

[ArlyA]

The Asian looking fellow in this photo family is Orec. Any other machine manufacture owners attend demo days?

 

[joecoin]

I have a Grillo 107D with a 21" DelMorino brush mower. I've got hundreds of hours on it. Climbs hills, cuts brush, has steering brakes. I love it. If it can push it over, it can cut it.

One thing it doesn't do is mow in reverse, the pto disengages in reverse.

I've never run a flail mower.

 

[2manyrocks]

"If it can push it over, it can cut it." That's the question I have.

My experience so far is the walk behinds I've tried so far can't really push over these kinds of briar thickets like I posted in #3 or climb over them. They can run into them and nibble at them by going back and forth repeatedly. The tires on mine will spin before they can climb up very far onto this kind of thicket.

I'm interested whether a flail would cut differently than a rotary brush cutter on a walk behind, e.,g whether the flail can actually eat away at the thicket and /or whether the track drive will enable it to ride up over the thicket and grind it up.

A 6' rotary cutter behind a tractor has the advantage of all the tractor being able to ride over the thicket and the weight of the cutter compacting the material to the point where the blades can grind it up. So far, I am not finding that to be the case with either of my walk behinds I suspect because they don't have the mass relative to the size of the briar thicket.

 

[MossRoad]

I have some hillside areas I'd like to mow. Currently own both a Gravely walkbehind with 30" rough cut mower and a Bachtold rough cut. Already own a Kubota L2501 and MX5200. Don't want to use either Kubota on the hillside.

I tend not to use the Gravely because of the weight.

The Bachtold starts easily and does a good job of cutting material off at the base, but doesn't grind it up because it has an open deck that isn't enclosed on the sides. It's exhausting to push the handbars to lift it up over material, drop it down, and then pull it back by hand to cut up the material. It has a single forward speed and no power reverse. So what tends to happen is cut briars pile up at my feet and then I have to pull it back to chop them up. I use it as a last resort and never look forward to using it. Plus it has thrown a few rocks at my shins even though the rubber flap is in place that is supposed to stop that from happening.

I've been wondering if a flail mower would do an easier job of chopping up 6' tall briars and honeysuckle. The nearest BCS/Grillo dealer says he has a Grillo 110 with less than 100 hours that he could sell me with a 28" Bittante flail mower for about $5400. The list price of a new one with the flail would be around $6,300.

Then I noticed Orec America has a 25" flail driven by tracks. The nearest dealer didn't give me an exact quote other than to say it would be about $6,000 plus $300 shipping. The dealer has one to rent for $180/day so I could at least test one before buying. Both the Grillo and Orec have Honda engines, but the Orec is 8.4 hp vs 13hp on the Grillo.

I tend to think the tracks would do a better job of being able to push the flail into/over brush, but there is a substantial difference in HP between the Orec and the Grillo. The Orec advertises .6 mph in lowest gear vs .8 mph for the Grillo. I could see the slower speed as being better for allowing the flail time to chop up brush.

I don't care about other implements. This would be for brush cutting only.

Another option is there is a Steiner 410 with a 5' finish mower with 550 hours on the tractor and a new Honda engine listed for $8500. It does not have the two speed gear range of later Steiners and a finish mower would not be the best option for cutting brush. However, it would be nice to ride instead of walk if the Steiner could do the job. I don't think I have the option of testing it on my property before buying. The dealer does not have a brush cutter in stock to fit this model.

Final option would be a Power Trac PT 425 with a 48" brush cutter. The price is $17,750 plus shipping. I hate to spend this much just to mow a hillside.

Mulling this over. Would appreciate any thoughts to help think this through.

As a PowerTrac PT425 owner with a brush cutter, I'll tell you that I have mowed an acre of 13' tall thistles without a blink. However, it is not a great hill climber once you get the hydraulics hot, and, the motor has a limitation of sustained slope operation due to the oiling/lubrication system. My 2001 model year is 25 degrees for the Koehler Command CH25. Not sure what engine is currently being used. How steep is your slope and how large of an area is it?

At $18,000ish just for one task, there's probably a lot more practical and less pricey options, in my honest opinion.

Good luck in your search for the correct tool.

 

[MossRoad]

This is an example of the tangled brush pile I want to cut. There's a 48" step post sticking 42" out of the ground for perspective.

This is my Bachtold and this is my Gravely. If I were to try to cut this pile with either machine, I expect the cutting deck would push itself into the pile at cutting deck level until the brush pushed against the engine area stopping forward progress. Then I'd expect the pile to be severed from the ground, but still suspended above it in a tangled mess.

I could reverse out of the pile with the Gravely F/R lever, but would have to drag the Bachtold backwards. If there were even a way of adding a power reverse to the Bachtold, it would be a significant improvement in being able to work the pile down to shreds.

But is it even realistic to hope that even a tracked flail mower would be able to knock this pile down and then shred it?

For that matter, although I might have hopes of being able to lift the brush cutter on the PT425 enough to drop it down on this pile, I'm not so sure lifting the cutter very high on a slope is a good idea.

View attachment 823645 View attachment 823646 View attachment 823647

How thick are the stems? I have no problems with large multiflora rose bushes and don't have to lift the deck onto them, I just drive over them. With something like a honeysuckle with 1.5" tangle of stems, I can't get close enough to the base with the brush cutter to not get a face-full of branches before finding the part I need to sever, so I smash them down with the deck on the FEL arms.

Looking at the picture, I'd drive right over those, probably from the uphill side, with the deck on the ground.

 

[MossRoad]

What part of the country are you in, if I may ask? Don't have to be specific.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'd have to check the maps, but I'd guess 5 acres of hillside with about 18 degree slope that varies.

What I'm finding besides the Bachtold and Gravely I already own are: (1) DR 15.5 hp brush mower about $2,700; (2) Grillo/BCS with brush or flail mowers around $6,300; (3) Orec Cyclone around $6300 delivered and then there is a jump in price to either a used Steiner or new PT425.

The absence of a low range on either the Steiner 410 or the PT425 is also a concern.

Middle TN. Briar stems could be .75 inch. The briars could be uprooted with a piranha blade, but the brush would be everywhere. So it needs to be chopped up.

 

[2manyrocks]

Looking at the picture, I'd drive right over those, probably from the uphill side, with the deck on the ground.

What are your reasons for probably driving over them from the uphill side?

If you drove over them from the uphill side, do you think you could back up the hill to reposition yourself to drive down over another section or do you think you'd be fully committed to having to drive all the way down the hillside?

I'd probably add some mesh to the canopy to keep the briars off me as well as offer some protection from thrown debris.

 

[MossRoad]

I'd have to check the maps, but I'd guess 5 acres of hillside with about 18 degree slope that varies.

What I'm finding besides the Bachtold and Gravely I already own are: (1) DR 15.5 hp brush mower about $2,700; (2) Grillo/BCS with brush or flail mowers around $6,300; (3) Orec Cyclone around $6300 delivered and then there is a jump in price to either a used Steiner or new PT425.

The absence of a low range on either the Steiner 410 or the PT425 is also a concern.

Middle TN. Briar stems could be .75 inch. The briars could be uprooted with a piranha blade, but the brush would be everywhere. So it needs to be chopped up.

Yes, I've found over the years that no low range on a PT425 could be an issue.... for those that need it. I very rarely do, so not an issue for me. Also, the current PT425 for many years have larger wheel motors than my 2001 model and apparently have more torque than mine, so take that for what it's worth. A few TBN members with PT425s have fitted larger wheel motors for better hill climbing and a bit lower top end, but who needs to go 8mph up or down a hill? But again, that's an added expense.

.75" briars are no issue for PT425 brush cutter.

 

[MossRoad]

What are your reasons for probably driving over them from the uphill side?

If you drove over them from the uphill side, do you think you could back up the hill to reposition yourself to drive down over another section or do you think you'd be fully committed to having to drive all the way down the hillside?

I'd probably add some mesh to the canopy to keep the briars off me as well as offer some protection from thrown debris.

My reasonings are:

- You have more engine power to the mower going downhill, as you're not using much at all to drive downhill(gravity is your friend), VS having to rob engine power to drive uphill on steeper slopes while the mower is running.

- Traction. Going uphill, more of the machine weight is towards the back wheels. The front wheels will start to spin. You can counter it by slightly pulling back on the joystick to just lift the mower wheels off the ground, and that takes the mower weight off it it's own wheels and transfers all that weight now hanging on the FEL arms directly to the front wheels and you gain a ton of traction.

- You can at any time turn off the mower deck to get full power to the drive wheels and either back up the hill or turn around and drive back up, but yes, you are correct that you can get on a slope so steep that you are committed to going nowhere but down the hill.

Mesh might not be a bad idea. I've considered it myself. However, I've not found it necessary. The debris tends to go under the machine. It will build up on the front of the machine where the FEL arms attach, and you will occasionally have to clear that out. I tend to do that at lunch break/refueling time. I like to stop the machine after several hours of operation, let it cool down, clear any debris I find on the machine, inspect hoses, tires, engine compartment, etc, have a snack and something to rehydrate.

My only concern with mesh is that if a sharp stick comes through the mesh, the mesh can act like a support to the stick and actually make it stronger to spear you, VS being able to swat it out of your way.

I've never been sprayed with a bunch of fast debris on my body while operating the brush cutter or mower. I have been covered in dust and wet clippings from the 13' thistle. I have seen a 2' long bent stick get shot out of the front of the brush cutter, spinning like a propeller, and was mesmerized by it as it flew about 40' out, made a beautiful arc, then turned around and came right back at me like a boomerang. That was once in 20+ years of operation. I've seen it shoot softball size rocks 100+ feet. It's a dangerous machine, as are all brush cutters, that's for sure. Needs some respect and basic safety gear like eye and hearing protection, gloves, boots and jeans.

 

[2manyrocks]

Not having seen a PT425 in person, I appreciate all the information I can get. Thank you very much.

The thing about an overgrown patch of briars is there will always be plenty of ones growing extra long to reach out and stick me no matter what I do.

 

[MossRoad]

The reason I asked about geographic location is that there might be someone close to you that could show you the machine in person.

That's one of the drawbacks of factory direct... no place to demo one. I was fortunate to stumble across a local landscaper that had two of them right after I started reading about them here on TBN. He showed me how it worked, his thoughts on pros and cons, etc. That sold me.

It works well for my needs, may not for others. It is not a pulling machine, as noted with no low range. Also, it only weighs about 1500# with me on it. So think about that, in that there's only about 375# on each tire in normal mode.

Again, I'm kinda in agreement with you in that it's a huge investment for one task, and probably not the best bang for you buck, especially if you have other machines.

 

[2manyrocks]

The Grillo dealer seems pretty confident that the Grillo/flail will cut this briar patch, but said it will be slow. Haven't heard from the Orec rep, but I suspect they'll say the same thing.

Trouble is, I know from experience that cutting brush with a walk behind on a hillside is a hard physical task. That's really why I'm interested in finding some kind of ride on brush cutter that will work on this slope.

Although I hate to spend an additional $18k for a PT on top of what I already spent on Kubotas, I'm having trouble thinking of a less expensive alternative.

 

[ArlyA]

Reps claim your dog will start to listen and the kids do better in school with what we sale. I trust users better.