Talk Me In/Out of the Stihl MS261

[WinterDeere]

I usually carry three saws:

30cc top handle for limbing
63cc with 19" bar, for most bucking, and felling smaller stuff
85cc with 28" bar for most felling and bucking larger stuff

Throw them all into the carry-all basket or my loader bucket, along with the toolbox of spare chains and saw tools, when driving into the woods. I'm not carrying any of them!

 

[sea2summit]

This is so true. My 261 feels so feather light but with yellow chain cuts like a beast.

It IS a pro saw. Mugh more than a homeowner needs.

What if I consider myself a professional homeowner?

 

[newbury]

I usually carry three saws:

30cc top handle for limbing
63cc with 19" bar, for most bucking, and felling smaller stuff
85cc with 28" bar for most felling and bucking larger stuff

Throw them all into the carry-all basket or my loader bucket, along with the toolbox of spare chains and saw tools, when driving into the woods. I'm not carrying any of them!

And with the three saws you should be able to get a stuck saw out quickly!

 

[WinterDeere]

And with the three saws you should be able to get a stuck saw out quickly!

It's been a long time since I've managed to get a saw stuck, but yeah... used to count on that!

Over decades of cutting what must add up to hundreds of cords, I've gotten to where I really don't get saws stuck very often. A combination of reading the tree and feeling when things are starting to pinch, can usually keep you out of that particular trouble.

Of course, now that I've said that, you can count on me getting one stuck next week.

 

[BnRidge]

However, in order to say it has "no issues" with that sort of use, you need one more thing: patience.

Ms260 (2009) and Ms462cm here - good combination. I used the 260 for everything until two yrs ago. It's nice to no longer be required to show : patience anymore. Actually it has all worked out well over the years. The 260 is/was a good saw. Big wood, take your time, let hp be your friend. Everything else, it's so light and easy to work, easy to clean and maintain, makes for an enjoyable time in the woods. The first time I used the 462, I actually pulled the saw and checked to make sure the wood wasn't rotten - nope, rock solid. It mowed through solid white oak so fast. After a year, I made the mistake of using a 2:1 file on it though vs hand file. It took the rakers down to the point where I set the chain aside and bought a new one. I won't use the raker file on a 2:1 now, seems to work a whole lot better that way, at east on the larger 3/8 chains.

 

[Snobdds]

A 261 is a solid saw. You won't be disappointed. My dad uses ours a lot because it's light and powerful.

As someone mentioned, if you do a 2 saw plan, make the difference between the two enough it's noticeable. A ms400 is a solid choice.

I have a 10 saw plan, maybe it's 12 now. I have pro saws from 25 to 137cc. I don't sharpen in the field, I just grab another saw.

 

[Hay Dude]

My 261 with 20” is in the truck-permanently.

 

[John_Mc]

After a year, I made the mistake of using a 2:1 file on it though vs hand file. It took the rakers down to the point where I set the chain aside and bought a new one. I won't use the raker file on a 2:1 now, seems to work a whole lot better that way, at east on the larger 3/8 chains.

That's strange. I don't use the Stihl 2-in-1 myself. I generally use the Husqvarna roller guides or one of the Oregon guides that clips on to the file. I've tried one a few times and found it OK, and have a couple of friends who use the 2-in-1. They are happy with it I prefer a progressive depth gauge tool to set the rakers, so that matching the length of all off the cutter teeth is not all that critical - it just seems like a waste of chain life to me (the 2-in-1 is not progressive).

I've been sneered a a few times by those who think using any sort of guide is the mark of an inexperienced user. I just let them sneer. I have no use for the macho BS. I do what workls for me, and let them do what they want. I generally get the last laugh when my 60cc saw outcuts their 70cc - either right from the get-go, or after half a dozen cuts in hardwood when their poorly formed, fragile hook which cut so well at first dulls too quickly.)

I tried hand filing with a bare round file, but my eyesight is not good enough anymore to really see how things are going. I can get by with it if I have to, but I generally always have my ammo can full of tools and spare chains near by if I'm doing any serious cutting.

 

[Skeans1]

$150 more than 462 but you get .8 more HP and same weight

Here’s the biggest thing what length of bars are you running? What chain? And what sprocket?

 

[sea2summit]

After a year, I made the mistake of using a 2:1 file on it though vs hand file. It took the rakers down to the point where I set the chain aside and bought a new one. I won't use the raker file on a 2:1 now, seems to work a whole lot better that way, at east on the larger 3/8 chains.

Did you use it on a full skip chain? 2 in 1 isn't compatible with full skip chains because it has to guide height off the second tooth.

 

[WinterDeere]

The first time I used the 462, I actually pulled the saw and checked to make sure the wood wasn't rotten - nope, rock solid. It mowed through solid white oak so fast.

THIS is why I have always owned at least one saw 85 - 125 cc. I am not patient, and don't like having to slow down for an underpowered saw running too much bar. A 462 is a great power plant for up to 24" bars, and would be a friggin' light saber with a 20" bar.

After a year, I made the mistake of using a 2:1 file on it though vs hand file. It took the rakers down to the point where I set the chain aside and bought a new one.

"Rakers" (really, "depth gauges") should be kept around .026" below teeth on most 3/8" full-chisel chains (eg. Stihl RS or RS3). If you're doing a scant touch-up with a round file between each tank of gas, you might go 3 or more sharpenings between having to lower the depth gauges. If you rock the chain, or prefer using an electric grinder, it's more likely they'll require a pass or three with a good sharp flat file on every sharpening, to keep them at the proper height for fast cutting.

On all but my top-handle saw, I actually take my depth gauges down at least 20% farther than the factory grind, aiming generally .031" to .033" on RS chain, for faster cutting. But it takes more horsepower to turn the more aggressive grind, on the same bar length, and they can be more grabby in smaller branchwood. More reasons to favor bigger motors on shorter bars.

Whenever I find myself in a group situation, such as cutting with a partner or church clean up days (they owned a lot of woodland that needed yearly maintenance), people always seem amazed at how much faster my saws cut than theirs. The saws are stock, but I don't over-extend them with too-long bars, and I do keep them sharp. I'm spitting rooster tails of wood chips, while half the others are spitting dust from dull chains, or depth gauges set too high to take a proper bite on each pass.

I have a 10 saw plan, maybe it's 12 now. I have pro saws from 25 to 137cc. I don't sharpen in the field, I just grab another saw.

I'm down to 4 chainsaws: top handle, pole, two regular. I had as many as seven at one time, but found I never really used them all.

I also don't sharpen in the field. If I manage to rock a chain on the 20" saw, I set that saw aside until lunch break or end of day, and just use the 28" for everything. I do a chain swap on each of the saws I've been running at lunch time, and then blow them out with compressed air and install another new chain when I'm home in the evening. I can sharpen the chains sitting in my warm shop on a Tuesday evening, rather than wasting daylight on a day in the woods. I use a bench-mounted chain grinder for tooth profile, and a hand file for the depth gauges.

 

[BnRidge]

Did you use it on a full skip chain? 2 in 1 isn't compatible with full skip chains because it has to guide height off the second tooth.

I think the problem was that I was used to using a 2in1 on the the .325 chain for the ms260, and that using the 2in1 for .375 chain, and thinking it was a bigger chain, I pushed down a little too hard and took the depth gauges down an extra .04 When the 462 was new, the depth/power ratio was perfect, with no grabbing, just a nice smooth high speed high power cut. Taking the depth gauges down that extra amount almost disabled the saw completely. Filing the cutting teeth to almost nubs would bring the depth back in line, but I wasn't in the mood for that. Maybe the 2in1 would work better with a light back and forth touch, and not pressing down at all, but then again the depth doesn't really need adjusting every time anyway. I never seemed to have a problem with the .325 chain. I want to get one of those progressive plates, something like Carlton makes, but haven't gotten to it yet. The 462 really does cut nice just the way it is, with just a light touch up on the "rakers" once in a while. I've been out almost everyday for 3wks now, felling and cutting all of these white oaks here that are dead from oak wilt. I counted 8 that were 175yrs old, and another 10 at 120-150yrs old. The gypsy moths just arrived this year now too, so it's starting to look like a war zone. In that time I haven't touched the depth gauges, just the cutters, and to me it cuts like a beast so I'm hesitating messing with it.

 

[kozal01]

I think the problem was that I was used to using a 2in1 on the the .325 chain for the ms260, and that using the 2in1 for .375 chain, and thinking it was a bigger chain, I pushed down a little too hard and took the depth gauges down an extra .04 When the 462 was new, the depth/power ratio was perfect, with no grabbing, just a nice smooth high speed high power cut. Taking the depth gauges down that extra amount almost disabled the saw completely. Filing the cutting teeth to almost nubs would bring the depth back in line, but I wasn't in the mood for that. Maybe the 2in1 would work better with a light back and forth touch, and not pressing down at all, but then again the depth doesn't really need adjusting every time anyway. I never seemed to have a problem with the .325 chain. I want to get one of those progressive plates, something like Carlton makes, but haven't gotten to it yet. The 462 really does cut nice just the way it is, with just a light touch up on the "rakers" once in a while. I've been out almost everyday for 3wks now, felling and cutting all of these white oaks here that are dead from oak wilt. I counted 8 that were 175yrs old, and another 10 at 120-150yrs old. The gypsy moths just arrived this year now too, so it's starting to look like a war zone. In that time I haven't touched the depth gauges, just the cutters, and to me it cuts like a beast so I'm hesitating messing with it.

I also think maybe you were using too much force. The Stihl 2 in 1 controls the amount taken off the depth gages to keep it consistant but too much pressure can bend the gauge rods and take too much off with the files.

 

[WinterDeere]

Hey BnRidge, it sounds like you know what you're doing. If you're sharpening enough to keep in practice, why not just learn to freehand sharpen, without the 2-in-1? Short of hitting a rock, where hand sharpening is just going to take too long to bring it back, it's a preferred method by many pros and frequent cutters.

If I weren't always so pressed for free daylight hours, I'd probably be freehand sharpening in the field myself. But as life is now, free hours after dark are infinitely more abundant, and so I use a chain grinder in my shop at night.

 

[Jrasband]

I find the 2-in-1 to work great with .325 and can sharpen a chain much faster than I would by hand.

 

[WinterDeere]

I find the 2-in-1 to work great with .325 and can sharpen a chain much faster than I would by hand.

Never used it, since I learned to sharpen before it was invented. What do you think BnRidge did wrong with his?

 

[BnRidge]

Hey BnRidge, it sounds like you know what you're doing. If you're sharpening enough to keep in practice, why not just learn to freehand sharpen, without the 2-in-1? Short of hitting a rock, where hand sharpening is just going to take too long to bring it back, it's a preferred method by many pros and frequent cutters.

If I weren't always so pressed for free daylight hours, I'd probably be freehand sharpening in the field myself. But as life is now, free hours after dark are infinitely more abundant, and so I use a chain grinder in my shop at night.

Hand file like Buckin Billy Ray. I do that too. I timed it once - 4min to put it in a vise and file "till it's sharp", usually only a couple strokes, and 4min to fuel and oil. A sharp saw really pulls out the chips. The 2:1 does seem to help get the hook angle right, the vertical angle of the tooth tip, if I remember not to push down on it. Hand filing I found I was loosing the right angle, couldn't seem to get it back, and needed some kind of guide to get the file up where it belonged. Once dialed in, then I'm good again.

 

[WinterDeere]

If you're hand filing, I'm told a stump vise is a must-have tool. I hang out with a few pros who only freehand sharpen, and they razz me for using a grinder, but we all have to find what works best for us. As long as your saw is sharp, and the angles and depth gauges are right, that's all that matters.

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

 

[kozal01]

If you're hand filing, I'm told a stump vise is a must-have tool. I hang out with a few pros who only freehand sharpen, and they razz me for using a grinder, but we all have to find what works best for us. As long as your saw is sharp, and the angles and depth gauges are right, that's all that matters.

View attachment 823436

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

I always laugh at the guys that act like they are all that is man because they can hand sharpen like its some divine skill that will get them into heaven or something. Lol Most of the guys I know that brag about it are throwing dust while my saw is making chips. I was a Tool and Die maker and CNC machinist for 20+ years, I can use a file better than most but hand filing is inefficient and without a depth guide we are just guessing at the depth gauges. The 2 in 1 kit is great for out in the woods or in the garage, is faster and more consistent than separate hand files and less things rolling around my field kit. Also not a damn thing wrong with using a grinder. As you said, to each their own.

 

[sea2summit]

I was a Tool and Die maker and CNC machinist for 20+ years

Tell me you were a tool maker without telling me you were a tool maker

….filing is inefficient and without a depth guide.