Buying Advice Diesel smog emission stuff?

[adeymary]

This post is old, Why do so many people still care?
Reading it also helps me learn more things

 

[jeff9366]

This thread was first posted YESTERDAY, 7/29/2023.

 

[m1garand762]

I can’t speak for everyone. It those that operate the new machines like the manufacturer calls for have few if any issues. Those that do 2 minute tasks and idle it a lot do. I use my tractor every day and it has never had a problem with the dpf. I don’t idle it unless I need to get off for a few seconds and get back on I am approaching 700 hours on 5 burns

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I can’t speak for everyone. It those that operate the new machines like the manufacturer calls for have few if any issues. Those that do 2 minute tasks and idle it a lot do. I use my tractor every day and it has never had a problem with the dpf. I don’t idle it unless I need to get off for a few seconds and get back on I am approaching 700 hours on 5 burns

Again, quite similar to modern diesel pickups.

 

[5030]

Personally I hate the DEF fluid the DPF filters but they are probably here to stay

Sure are. Next lawnmower you buy will have a Cat in the muffler too. Chainsaws are already there I might add. Stihl is circumventing it with their E-Tronic system but eventually they will also succumb.

If you purchase an Echo homeowner grade (clamshell) saw, it will have a Cat in the muffler, only the Pro grade arborists saws don't have them and you have to replace the Cat muffler to eliminate it as the Cat is welded into the inside of the muffler. Least Echo still sells a non Cat muffler for a while at least.

 

[5030]

I can’t speak for everyone. It those that operate the new machines like the manufacturer calls for have few if any issues. Those that do 2 minute tasks and idle it a lot do. I use my tractor every day and it has never had a problem with the dpf. I don’t idle it unless I need to get off for a few seconds and get back on I am approaching 700 hours on 5 burns

gee, I'm over 6000 hours on one and 4000 hours on the other and NO burns...lol

 

[4570Man]

One reason I am heavily considering the Kioti CK20SE series with the cab is because all three models weigh the same, and have nearly all the same dimensions. 3,397 lbs. And they are not so wide that any one of them would give me headaches trying to get between the trees on my property. 54.53 inches.

So I need to find out prices to see how much the higher horsepower models will cost and figure if one of those would be worthwhile for the modest HP gains even with this emission stuff involved.

The difference in 25 hp and 35 hp is significant. The 25 hp model is going to be critically underpowered. They wouldn’t even offer that option if it wasn’t for the emission standards.

 

[tacticalturnip]

I can tell you from experience with my L2501 HST, going from 25 HP stock, to 44.1 HP with the Turbo Kit, was a significant improvement in operating performance. Luckily, no regen or DPF for me.

Mike

@Rich_Z if you've not checked Mike's thread on turbocharging his L2501, you ought to. The ability to modify the tractor to produce more power, after the warranty expires, does exist. Now that's not necessarily something that appeals to you, but it may be something to consider.

I certainly keep the possibility in the back of my mind.

 

[jeff9366]

@Rich_Z if you've not checked Mike's thread on turbocharging his L2501, you ought to. The ability to modify the tractor to produce more power, after the warranty expires, does exist. Now that's not necessarily something that appeals to you, but it may be something to consider.

I certainly keep the possibility in the back of my mind.

DPF equipped tractors produce only ~ 1% of the cancer and smog producing diesel particulates which are produces by ~ 25-horsepower diesel tractors without DPFs.

Turbocharging an L2501 so it produces 200 times as much pollution as a 33-39 horsepower, DPF equipped Kubota tractor should be a crime.

If you need > 25-horsepower buy a DPF equipped, legal machine.

 

[K5lwq]

DPF equipped tractors produce only ~ 1% of the cancer and smog producing diesel particulates which are produces by ~ 25-horsepower diesel tractors without DPFs.

Turbocharging an L2501 so it produces 200 times as much pollution as a 33-39 horsepower, DPF equipped Kubota tractor should be a crime.

If you need > 25-horsepower buy a DPF equipped, legal machine.

How’s that? Did you turbo a L2501 then do emissions testing? A properly tuned turbocharged diesel burns pretty clean.

 

[LouNY]

Well I run the gamet of tractors here on my place,
my old IH 574 of about 60-65 Hp and an old 4 speed manual with high low and reverse ranges,
then the Branson 8050 with almost 80 Hp on the engine and a 4 speed trans with 3 ranges with a power shuttle so 12 speeds forward or reverse,
then the NH 8160 with about 100Hp and a 3 range 6 speed power shift with a reverser lever,
then I just bought a little Kioti CK2620SE hydo cab so 25 engine Hp.
One reason for the 2620 was the ability to turn the fuel up and supposedly gain 10 Hp which is a considerable difference if needed.
The Kioti CK line has a;
2620 with a 3 cylinder 24.5 Hp 100.5 cu.in. engine
3520 with a 3 cylinder 34.9 Hp 111.4 cu. in. engine
4020 with a 3 cylinder 39.6 Hp 111.4 cu. in. engine
All three models use the same loader and if wanted the same little backhoe,
they all use the same size tires and have the same choices of tires.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

How’s that? Did you turbo a L2501 then do emissions testing? A properly tuned turbocharged diesel burns pretty clean.

That's not what they said on The View.

 

[tacticalturnip]

DPF equipped tractors produce only ~ 1% of the cancer and smog producing diesel particulates which are produces by ~ 25-horsepower diesel tractors without DPFs.

Turbocharging an L2501 so it produces 200 times as much pollution as a 33-39 horsepower, DPF equipped Kubota tractor should be a crime.

If you need > 25-horsepower buy a DPF equipped, legal machine.

I understand and acknowledge the health risks, and if I choose to modify the power output of a machine I own, I will.

That you think it should be a crime, well, I am disappointed to hear that.

 

[5030]

A properly tuned turbocharged diesel burns pretty clean.

Until it gets lugging in the lower end of it's power band...

 

[K5lwq]

Until it gets lugging in the lower end of it's power band...

It still will not be any worse than the tractors you own. Should it be a crime to run your machines?

 

[5030]

It still will not be any worse than the tractors you own. Should it be a crime to run your machines?

How so? Both are well maintained and properly tuned are rarely produce visible particulates unless really lugged, something I try not to do They are totally compliant T3 final tractors, right down to the 'puff' limiters.

All I see is heat from the exhaust stack when working them and they both get excellent per hour fuel consumption and I plan on running them until I don't require them anymore plus both will command a high resale value because people don't want the emissions stuff if they can avoid it.

Just had the M9 cab tractor professionally appraise and it appraised for more than I paid for it new and the other one appraised for 20 grand more than I paid for it 3 years ago.

 

[K5lwq]

How so? Both are well maintained and properly tuned are rarely produce visible particulates unless really lugged, something I try not to do They are totally compliant T3 final tractors, right down to the 'puff' limiters.

All I see is heat from the exhaust stack when working them and they both get excellent per hour fuel consumption and I plan on running them until I don't require them anymore plus both will command a high resale value because people don't want the emissions stuff if they can avoid it.

Just had the M9 cab tractor professionally appraise and it appraised for more than I paid for it new and the other one appraised for 20 grand more than I paid for it 3 years ago.

Because a turbocharged diesel is much more efficient and has smaller carbon footprint than a naturally aspirated engine. I am a fan of your tractors and have no issues with them but saying adding a turbo should be a crime because of increased smog is not only ridiculous but also completely false.

Here is a pretty good article discussing this but feel free to research more if you like. A quick search will show plenty of evidence to this fact.

What is a Turbo: Why Turbocharged Engines are Environmentally Friendly

Turbos, even diesel turbos, are associated with high rpm and rapid acceleration. However, though it is true that turbos increase torque and acceleration turbos are in fact technologies that increase fuel efficiency and reduce toxic engine emissions. Turbos are — contrary to what one might assume...

rentar.com

 

[5030]

I am a fan of your tractors and have no issues with them but saying adding a turbo should be a crime because of increased smog

I never said that, that it increases smog or visible particulates in the case of a diesel. IMO, the biggest plus of mine is the engine longevity. The VTE engine is probably the most reliable engine Kubota ever built, they will run in the excess of 30K hours with very minimal care other than proper oil changes and filters. They are the 4020 Deere in Orange clothing.

Other than valve adjustments, I've done nothing to either unit far as non routine maintenance and both are making in the excess of the advertised pto power.

Like I've said before, the weak link on them (and I have to presume other Kubota's) is the weak 2 plate pto brake but I've addressed that with an over running clutch on the pto stub that prevents an implement driving the pto in coast and eating the brake up, which is something both my shredders are real good for.

I don't ever want to replace the pto brake discs because it entails a split.

I'm reasonably confident both will outlast me and return excellent value when sold.

Gonna enter the cab unit (pulling the new round bailer) in our town's 200 year parade next week. I'm sure it will stand out against all the green tractors that parade down main street, plus I'll be cooled in the ac, not sweating my butt off on a open station green tractor.

I always get comments on how good they both look as well. Not bad for 23 year + year old working tractors and not garage or barn queens.

People are **** about their lawns, I'm **** about my tractors and how they look.

This is JD country but there is room for an orange one far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rdrcr]

DPF equipped tractors produce only ~ 1% of the cancer and smog producing diesel particulates which are produces by ~ 25-horsepower diesel tractors without DPFs.

Turbocharging an L2501 so it produces 200 times as much pollution as a 33-39 horsepower, DPF equipped Kubota tractor should be a crime.

If you need > 25-horsepower buy a DPF equipped, legal machine.

That’s precisely the opposite of what has been observed when testing my Turbocharged L2501. Startup aside, using modern diesel emissions testing equipment at our dealership, the Turbocharged L2501 is running marginally cleaner when testing for particulates. Now, that said, we weren’t using the same instruments that the EPA uses and we didn’t have a baseline test on my tractor. We tested a completely stock L2501 from a close by business to compare.

Edit: Perhaps I should show you the data I have on completely stock L2501’s operating at high elevations. Would it shock you that they pollute a TON more than that same tractor operating at sea level? You see, the factory fuel setting flow the same amount of fuel at sea level as it does in high elevations. In the thin air, the engine is consuming way too much fuel causing a loss of power, EGT and combustion temperatures to exceed 1,100 degrees, spewing black smoke and soot. Massive amounts of pollution. That’s stock!!! Should that be a crime too! Let’s lock up the OEM manufacturers!!!

Installing a Turbocharger on an L2501 operating at higher elevations will make the engine run more efficiently, drastically reduce EGT and combustion temperatures which, in turn, will significantly reduce the amount of pollution.

Mike

 

[Rdrcr]

Until it gets lugging in the lower end of it's power band...

Once again, start up aside, this has not been my experience with the Turbocharged L2501. Because we’re using a properly sized Turbo for the application, we’re getting boost just off idle making the engine extremely efficient.

Mike