If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?

   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #201  
Here in this side of world energy costs was REAL roller-coaster
Pellets from 150 €/T went to 450 €/T. Electricity (for industrial customers) from 0,04 to o,5 €/kWh
LPG I even dont want to know. But to keep warm average house it used to be like 100 - 150 €/m for gas, now people are paying near 1k €



I have wood gasification furnace (or boiler ? I am a bit confused about terms you use).
It has 20 kW power and is connected to 2000 liters big heat accumulator. Every second day I am filling boiler with ~ 30 kg of wood and fire it up. wood burns like 5 - 6 hours, warms up accumulator from 30 C to 80 C. We have underfloor heating, so to go down till 30 is ok
/ Little break for ranting - SI system makes much more sense - 1 W is needed to warm 1 liter of water for 1 C /
Keeping that in mind we can figure out that my accu contains ~ 100 kWh of energy. That's enough for 48 hours. At least it was so till this fall


This year I have made extension for house and obviously now house needs more energy.

And parallel to wood boiler we have installed air - water heat pump
It is efficient is it has to go till 35 C max, which is ok for me. And if temperatures are negative, then as well efficiency is falling. I have used heat pump till + 5 and I have noticed ~ 3,5 COP, which is less than promised but still rather nice



View attachment 771868

Nice looking setup. Especially the little electric fork lift for a pallet mover.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #202  
Nothing really burns good green.

But if given a choice due to no other options, ash is what you want because "green", it has a much lower moisture content than most other species.

Wood has a lot of water, you have to turn that water to steam to burn the wood.

Dry seasoned wood is usually under 10% moisture. For reference, kiln dried lumber is usually around 6%

Anything under 18-20% usually burns without much fuss. Ash is right there around 20 when green.

Some of the wetter woods like maple....40+ I have seen. And yea, that don't burn.

Obviously don't burn green wood unless you have no choice. But I think you will find you have a lot better success burning fresh cut ash as opposed maple or elm.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #203  
A couple who go to our church built a house on a farm they bought close to us. Over the years they have built several houses, lived in them for a while, then sold at a profit and built another one. This was to be their retirement house and it was planned over years down to the last detail. They have an open geothermal system that works on well water instead of the pipes buried in the yard. Water goes thru the system and drains down a rock covered culvert into a pond. Don't know the figures but he says it is the most efficient, cheapest to operate system they have used. And they have used several different types of heating cooling systems over the years. They are on city water for drinking, cleaning, etc. and use the well water only for the geo system and watering the few animals they have.

Does anybody else have a system like this? My sister is planning on building next year and she is looking for info on different systems.

RSKY
My house has an open loop system like you described. I think the biggest advantage it has over a recirculating system is the installation cost but it is possible the water carries more heat than the water that needs to have the heat transferred back into it from the ground. I do know that it is even more economical on cooling rather than heating.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #204  
Nice looking setup. Especially the little electric fork lift for a pallet mover.
that neat thing is unbelievable handy and useful not only for mowing firewood
As we are in TBN, I will give to you tractor related example: with help of that little f-ker attaching implements on rear 3p is kinderspiele
😎
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #205  
Nothing really burns good green.

But if given a choice due to no other options, ash is what you want because "green", it has a much lower moisture content than most other species.

Wood has a lot of water, you have to turn that water to steam to burn the wood.

Dry seasoned wood is usually under 10% moisture. For reference, kiln dried lumber is usually around 6%

Anything under 18-20% usually burns without much fuss. Ash is right there around 20 when green.

Some of the wetter woods like maple....40+ I have seen. And yea, that don't burn.

Obviously don't burn green wood unless you have no choice. But I think you will find you have a lot better success burning fresh cut ash as opposed maple or elm.
I've actually had better luck burning beech which was just off the stump than ash. There was one winter years ago when I was self employed and wasn't getting paid in a timely fashion, so went through my wood faster than I'd intended. I had just bought my lot here so was cutting beech and ash, hauling it to my pickup with my snow sled, and burning it that week.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #206  
I've actually had better luck burning beech which was just off the stump than ash.
I like beech, doesn't always split easily but it's nice dense hardwood.
Yes - wood prices vary by region - here in NH a cord of seasoned wood is $375 green $275. You can copy that table into excel and calculate for your area.
Wow, wood's pricey down your way. I don't get it cut & split, but from talking with neighbors who do, it's about $100/cord cheaper here in the north country.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?
  • Thread Starter
#207  
{Problem with roasting wet wood is the creosote that collects in the flue.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #208  
Yes it does creosote more, and wood is pricey down here on the coast of NH, and the only reason I mentioned green wood is the cost difference and if I need to buy, I get green and season for a year. I usually have enough logs here down or dying to cut a fresh cord a year.

I keep 2 cords dry and burn one cord in the central fireplace a winter. it's more for ambiance and heating up the central mass of stone in the house on cold winter days.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?
  • Thread Starter
#209  
Fireplaces are notoriously inefficient producers of heat. Most of it goes up the chimney. Why in early times rooms had a fireplace on both ends of a room so the owner didn't have a cold backside.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #210  
All you eastern folks are lucky. Our government would rather put money aside for putting fires out than bringing firewood out to consumers. Never understood it. But around here there is pine and that is all for local firewood. Any other wood species is trucked in and over $4-500 a cord.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #211  
That must be one serious lean to!! Mine's 7' x 24 and it holds a little over a year's worth. I cut and split well away from the house so sawdust, wood chips, etc. aren't tracked in. Stack it to dry in that general area too, fill up the woodshed in the fall.
12x30x9. Easily held 2 years worth.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #212  
All you eastern folks are lucky. Our government would rather put money aside for putting fires out than bringing firewood out to consumers. Never understood it. But around here there is pine and that is all for local firewood. Any other wood species is trucked in and over $4-500 a cord.
I'm not sure in what way you are referring to;
higher taxs,
more government intrusion or what.
The government has nothing positive to do with firewood production,
actually it is the other way it is almost impossible to get firewood out of state forest.
Most of the firewood is coming off of private property.
What isn't is coming from utility or roadside easements, which is still actually taxed private property.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #213  
I'm not sure in what way you are referring to;
higher taxs,
more government intrusion or what.
The government has nothing positive to do with firewood production,
actually it is the other way it is almost impossible to get firewood out of state forest.
Most of the firewood is coming off of private property.
What isn't is coming from utility or roadside easements, which is still actually taxed private property.
Different here, most firewood comes from public land. But because wood is as expensive as propane in my area, Many people go with the set and forget aspect of propane. And many fire burning appliances sit unused. The fire that started just off the back of my place cost was $15.7 million to put out. That was 1 fire of many that year. That doesn’t include the millions still being paid in aid to the displaced people that lost their houses. But pine firewood is still more than what you all pay for hardwoods. Why would someone pay $250 for a cord of pine when they can spend less on propane. My take is that fire prevention logs should cost less than once commercially logged.

Edit. More figures. Total insurance losses $543 million. Costs to fight it, not really to put it out since snow did that for free, $15.7 million. So my governor‘s response was to give $15 million to first responders to put fires out quicker in 2022. And firewood went up 30-50% in 2022. Propane went up just under 20%.
 
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   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #214  
Be thankful if you have public lands near you. Ours are all in the southern half of the state of Indiana. It would cost more in gas and fees to drive down there and back than the amount of natural gas it would save me.

On a side note, apparently the state recognizes a rick as something, but doesn't state it's measurement. :unsure:

362E2AF3-1BA6-43FE-BCC0-73F7D555C3FA.jpeg
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #215  
Be thankful if you have public lands near you. Ours are all in the southern half of the state of Indiana. It would cost more in gas and fees to drive down there and back than the amount of natural gas it would save me.

On a side note, apparently the state recognizes a rick as something, but doesn't state it's measurement. :unsure:

View attachment 771974
You also might meet with transportation regulations to reduce the spread of the Emerald Ash Borer and other pests.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #216  
You also might meet with transportation regulations to reduce the spread of the Emerald Ash Borer and other pests.
The borer already covers the entire state. I think it's too late to save any Ash trees in Indiana. I've got a few that are still standing but they are dead and rotted and about to fall any day. I didn't need the wood so I left several and the wood is not good now.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?
  • Thread Starter
#217  
We managed to keep ours going for years using the Bayer tree and shrub insecticide but in the end, they died so I cut them down and roasted them in the burn pile. Still have to have the stumps ground.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #218  
The government has nothing positive to do with firewood production,
actually it is the other way it is almost impossible to get firewood out of state forest.
Most of the firewood is coming off of private property.
What isn't is coming from utility or roadside easements, which is still actually taxed private property.
Don't know if they still do it, but as of 10 years ago the forest service sold permits to take wood from national forest land. It had to be dead and on the ground. They were cheap, $25 or so. What I would do was go to where there'd been a logging operation the previous winter and take the treetops, branches, etc. Technically you were limited to 2 or 3 cords, but the ranger told me no one cares if you take more...just make sure you have the permit with you...fines were steep for taking it without a permit.
It's been quite a while since there's been any activity in the WMNF within a reasonable driving distance so I haven't bothered since the 00s, plus now many/most loggers chip all the slash.
Once upon a time there was a similar program for state forests.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?
  • Thread Starter
#219  
Being 'frugal', I like to heat with the least expensive method and for me it's a biomass stove and my free corn. Our central propane fired high efficiency furnace rarely comes on unless it's very cold and extremely windy and I'm good with that because propane has been inching up right along with other fuels. Of course unlike a central furnace, heating with biomass requires regular maintenance like removing ashes and exchanging burn pots as they get carboned up. One in the units and the other soaking in a pail of water so the hard carbon flakes off. I bought my propane this last summer when it was cheaper than it is presently and I own 3 500 gallon propane tanks and they are all sitting at 85% presently.
 
   / If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing? #220  
Don't know if they still do it, but as of 10 years ago the forest service sold permits to take wood from national forest land. It had to be dead and on the ground. They were cheap, $25 or so. What I would do was go to where there'd been a logging operation the previous winter and take the treetops, branches, etc. Technically you were limited to 2 or 3 cords, but the ranger told me no one cares if you take more...just make sure you have the permit with you...fines were steep for taking it without a permit.
It's been quite a while since there's been any activity in the WMNF within a reasonable driving distance so I haven't bothered since the 00s, plus now many/most loggers chip all the slash.
Once upon a time there was a similar program for state forests.
In my region the US Forest Service sells personal use permits for dead and down firewood: 4 cords for $20. Also there are special cutting permits to cut green standing to accomplish thinning objectives in many locations. Easy pickings in a recently logged area to cut cull logs and slash tops.
 

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