If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?

[deezler]

Philosophical questions:

If the firewood one produces at their home property cannot or will not ever be sold, how many dollars is it actually worth?

If I can peck away at firewood production in my free time as a hobby, and spend basically nothing to do it, have I lost anything?

In the end I fully heat my home and do not have to spend the money paying for an alternative heat source.

Of course you are right that the firewood I turn into ashes has a theoretical market value. Totally fair if you want to compare and view things that way. Just seems hard to explain how some of us don't need to view it that way. I don't have an alternative, AND I also don't spend hardly any money on my heat source. Just facts. At the end of winter I have $1000 more in my bank account because I chose to heat my house this way. It is a chore, and a burden; of course I could figure out some sort of alternate income stream and spend my free time that way instead, but in reality, I would probably spend it on the couch because I don't know what that stream is. yet.

 

[deezler]

But honestly, producing 2.5-3 cords of wood for my home to burn annually feels like a lot of work! I am flabbergasted every time I hear about how someone else's homestead needs 6-10 full cords of wood every winter. (are outdoor wood burners so inefficient?)

If I had to make 2 or 3 times the firewood that I do now.... I would probably rent a mini and dig my own geo loop trenches!

 

[jjeff]

Always wondered if small lot firewood delivery would work. Think in the same way that DASH or even pizza delivery works. And not just the usual stuff I burn, but super high quality, two year dried out, bug free, hard woods like Oak or Madrone. High-end, firewood, that the buyers would not care too much about quantity, as much as quality and convenience of having it delivered and stacked in 1/4 or smaller cords.

Or depending on what you have available you could make little knick nacks, especially Xmas oriented to sell with minimal cost, logistics, time, and wood available yes people buy these roadside mostly plus it gets the whole family involved. For me anyway it's a great way to utilize limbs, tops and small rounds.

 

[deserteagle71]

Whatever works for you I guess. I don't find heating with wood to be any particular hassle, and if I'd cut and split that proverbial 6 cords, I might as well use it myself.
I love wood heat. Even though a thermometer may read the same, the house just feels warmer using the stove vs. the furnace. As others have noted, the ashes work great on icy spots on walkways/driveway (better than sand), and what's leftover goes in the garden or mossy spots on the lawn.
A wood stove also works when the power goes out.

^ This!
Nothing beats sitting next to a wood-burning stove on a cold, stormy night. And yes, no worries about power outages, stove will work just fine without electricity. Unlike every other heating source.

 

[ovrszd]

LD1, good try. You explained it clearly and with great detail several times.

The significance of it really slapped me when I quit burning wood after doing so for 25 years. No going back for me.

I have a long "to do" list on my farm that gives me all the exercise I want. My minimal involvement in cutting firewood is cleaning up deadfall or storm damage out of my timbers. My Sons both still burn wood and use it up. I pole it.

They come and block it and split it. I do the easy grunt work helping them. When we get a large trailer load of wood split I always make this comment. "The best part about this load of wood is that I don't have to unload it and burn it". We all laugh. Repeat next load.

 

[5030]

Propane has around 91,000+/- btu per gallon,
#2 fuel oil has 138,600 btu per gallon.
So considerably less heat per gallon of propane.
That said high efficiency propane furnaces are available that are more efficient then the high efficiency oil burners.

We have one.... +95 Bryant condensing furnace.

 

[lman]

For those of you happy with your geothermal systems, do you mind sharing the total installation costs?

We got rough quotes in the 30 to $40,000 range when building our home in 2015 (ours would have been horizontal ground loops, exchanged to hydronic in slab), which made it pretty easy to choose the $1300 wood stove instead.

We paid $14,600 for everything including the loop trench and installation along with the heat pump install in 2008. We did get a rebate from our electric co-op also along with a property tax deduction for geothermal. We replaced an air source heat pump that didn't work in our colder climate.

 

[Carl_NH]

How does heating oil compare to propane efficiency? Will 400 gallons of heating oil heat the same square footage as 400 gallons of propane? Just curious and have no experience with heating oil.

There are 135,000 BTU Gal heating oil 90,000 BTU per gal of propane so about 1/3 less BTU in a gal of propane.

Difference is many gas units are 90-93% efficiency, most Oil burners are 85% range but there are a few exceptions - the European oil boilers can get to 90% (like our Buderus) and Lochnivar etc.

ENERGY COST CALCULATOR
FUEL	ENERGY CONTENT		UNIT PRICE		HEAT CONVERSION EFFICIENCY		COST PER MILLION BTU
Kerosene	130,000​	BTU/gal	$4.05​	/gal	91	%	$34.23
#2 Fuel Oil	135,000​	BTU/gal	$4.00​	/gal	89		$33.29
Propane	92,000​	BTU/gal	$2.69​	/gal	94		$31.11
Natural Gas	100,000​	BTU/therm	$1.79​	/therm*	94		$19.04
Electricity - Resistance	3,412​	BTU/kWh	$0.34​	/kWh**	100		$99.65
Electricity - Heat Pump	11,945​	BTU/kWh	$0.34​	/kWh**	100		$28.46
Coal	13,200​	BTU/lb	$300.00​	/ton	75		$15.15
Firewood-Hardwood	25,000,000​	BTU/cord	$375.00​	/cord	60		$25.00
Wood Pellets	8,200	BTU/lb	$350.00	/ton	85		$25.11
Shelled Corn	6,800​	BTU/lb	$6.00​	/bushel	75		$21.01

 

[JasperFrank]

Um.. I my world, a cord is $175 at max price, delivered.

 

[Jstpssng]

But honestly, producing 2.5-3 cords of wood for my home to burn annually feels like a lot of work! I am flabbergasted every time I hear about how someone else's homestead needs 6-10 full cords of wood every winter. (are outdoor wood burners so inefficient?)

If I had to make 2 or 3 times the firewood that I do now.... I would probably rent a mini and dig my own geo loop trenches!

We used to do at least that much wood with my father, on the cordwood saw behind the tractor. He had an indoor wood boiler hooked up in conjunction with the oil burner. They also used wood for the flower shop, to bring the temps up to a comfortable temperature to work in. When we got done, he would cut up wood for his best friend's widow. Then he went down to my uncle's house and cut up his wood.

 

[MossRoad]

Um.. I my world, a cord is $175 at max price, delivered.

I just did a quick look around here. Anywhere from $50 a pickup you load to $180 per cord to $275 a cord.

 

[LD1]

LD1, good try. You explained it clearly and with great detail several times.

The significance of it really slapped me when I quit burning wood after doing so for 25 years. No going back for me.

I have a long "to do" list on my farm that gives me all the exercise I want. My minimal involvement in cutting firewood is cleaning up deadfall or storm damage out of my timbers. My Sons both still burn wood and use it up. I pole it.

They come and block it and split it. I do the easy grunt work helping them. When we get a large trailer load of wood split I always make this comment. "The best part about this load of wood is that I don't have to unload it and burn it". We all laugh. Repeat next load.

At least someone else understands logic and reason.


Nothing against those that choose to burn wood. More power to them. For some ot makes sense andis worth it. Others ....have blinders on.

Sometimes it just ain't worth the debate

 

[stumblinhorse]

It all depends on where you live I guess. I have propane and wood. Propane was $2.69 a gallon when I filled my 300 gallon tank in august. It is cold here. I used 11 cords of pine last year to heat my place. I use heat from about 10/15 to 5/15, 7 months. I get semi loads of logs and I cut and split. Using wood is about 1/4 the cost of propane. Propane is about 60% efficiency at my 8k foot elevation. Wood is a no brainer. But it is a lot of work and headache sometimes. I am jealous of my buddy who just writes a check for propane and does other stuff with his time. But it is a big check, one my account couldn’t cover.

 

[Carl_NH]

Um.. I my world, a cord is $175 at max price, delivered.

Yes - wood prices vary by region - here in NH a cord of seasoned wood is $375 green $275. You can copy that table into excel and calculate for your area.

Point of the calculator is you can put in your local cost and efficiency to arrive at an annual cost. I have gone further to add the house BTU heat loss numbers to determine the cost of each type of heat. Since we have mini-splits and oil and prices have gone up a lot I like to determine what is most cost effective.

 

[Jstpssng]

The firewood producers can't even keep up here. I imagine that "seasoned" was gone months ago, and I can't imagine trying to heat with green wood. Some claim that ash burns good green but I have never found that to be the case. Even the tree I felled this spring and cut up into 4 foot pieces was still a bit stingy with the heat when I cut and split it for a fall fire.

 

[5030]

My buddy near Bangor buys a truckload of saw logs every spring, cuts and splits them and stacks them in his wood racks and covers them with black 10 mil plastic sheet and lets them sit 2 years before roasting. From the racks, he fills his basement, the wood boiler is there.

 

[ovrszd]

It all depends on where you live I guess. I have propane and wood. Propane was $2.69 a gallon when I filled my 300 gallon tank in august. It is cold here. I used 11 cords of pine last year to heat my place. I use heat from about 10/15 to 5/15, 7 months. I get semi loads of logs and I cut and split. Using wood is about 1/4 the cost of propane. Propane is about 60% efficiency at my 8k foot elevation. Wood is a no brainer. But it is a lot of work and headache sometimes. I am jealous of my buddy who just writes a check for propane and does other stuff with his time. But it is a big check, one my account couldn’t cover.

Good post.

 

[ovrszd]

The firewood producers can't even keep up here. I imagine that "seasoned" was gone months ago, and I can't imagine trying to heat with green wood. Some claim that ash burns good green but I have never found that to be the case. Even the tree I felled this spring and cut up into 4 foot pieces was still a bit stingy with the heat when I cut and split it for a fall fire.

Back in the day I piled my wood outside. That worked okay.

Later years I built a leanto where I piled my wood so it was covered. Wow. What a difference. The leanto would hold almost two years of wood. So I never burned fresh cut. Words can't describe the difference.

One of my Sons understands. One doesn't.

 

[Oaktree]

The firewood producers can't even keep up here. I imagine that "seasoned" was gone months ago, and I can't imagine trying to heat with green wood. Some claim that ash burns good green but I have never found that to be the case. Even the tree I felled this spring and cut up into 4 foot pieces was still a bit stingy with the heat when I cut and split it for a fall fire.

Yeah, lotsa luck finding seasoned wood much past early-mid August, even that was probably cut over the winter so to call it "seasoned" is a bit of a stretch. At this point not even much green wood available. Ran into the guy I buy log length from last weekend, got my order in for next year even though I still have a year's worth left. Prices are only going to go up.
I'd heard the same thing about ash, never tried it though.

Back in the day I piled my wood outside. That worked okay.

Later years I built a leanto where I piled my wood so it was covered. Wow. What a difference. The leanto would hold almost two years of wood. So I never burned fresh cut. Words can't describe the difference.

That must be one serious lean to!! Mine's 7' x 24 and it holds a little over a year's worth. I cut and split well away from the house so sawdust, wood chips, etc. aren't tracked in. Stack it to dry in that general area too, fill up the woodshed in the fall.

 

[Helogabals]

Here in this side of world energy costs was REAL roller-coaster
Pellets from 150 €/T went to 450 €/T. Electricity (for industrial customers) from 0,04 to o,5 €/kWh
LPG I even dont want to know. But to keep warm average house it used to be like 100 - 150 €/m for gas, now people are paying near 1k €



I have wood gasification furnace (or boiler ? I am a bit confused about terms you use).
It has 20 kW power and is connected to 2000 liters big heat accumulator. Every second day I am filling boiler with ~ 30 kg of wood and fire it up. wood burns like 5 - 6 hours, warms up accumulator from 30 C to 80 C. We have underfloor heating, so to go down till 30 is ok
/ Little break for ranting - SI system makes much more sense - 1 W is needed to warm 1 liter of water for 1 C /
Keeping that in mind we can figure out that my accu contains ~ 100 kWh of energy. That's enough for 48 hours. At least it was so till this fall


This year I have made extension for house and obviously now house needs more energy.

And parallel to wood boiler we have installed air - water heat pump
It is efficient is it has to go till 35 C max, which is ok for me. And if temperatures are negative, then as well efficiency is falling. I have used heat pump till + 5 and I have noticed ~ 3,5 COP, which is less than promised but still rather nice