Heating Costs

[MossRoad]

I did include the cost of consumables, that is why “free” firewood is not free. The only dedicated capital cost I have for firewood is the splitter. In my case, I have 20 acres, so the tractor and truck are needed for other tasks...but make handling firewood much easier. I sold my trailer this year as I was not using it much. I was planning on adding a carport this year to provide storage for both firewood and the tractor, and that will cost $1500-2000. I was also planning on a new splitter, but after running the numbers, I doubt it makes sense.

Frankly, unless I get wood off my property or from a neighbor, it is not worth the effort. But I would rather cut and split wood than drive 25 miles to work at Mickey D’s.

We heat with wood primarily. About 10 years now. I ran the numbers. Cost of wood stove, stove pipe, installation, chainsaw, splitter, consumables, tractor time cost per hour, truck, trailer, and my time and it just doesn't add up. I'd be better off financially working less hours at a part-time job and paying for natural gas than I am spending my time processing firewood.

With that said, I have free wood at our remote property, the woods needs to be thinned out, deadfalls and storm damage on the trails needs to be cleared out, and I need the excersise and I enjoy the activity.

But from a purely financial aspect, it's much cheaper to buy natural gas.

 

[Oaktree]

We heat with wood primarily. About 10 years now. I ran the numbers. Cost of wood stove, stove pipe, installation, chainsaw, splitter, consumables, tractor time cost per hour, truck, trailer, and my time and it just doesn't add up. I'd be better off financially working less hours at a part-time job and paying for natural gas than I am spending my time processing firewood.

With that said, I have free wood at our remote property, the woods needs to be thinned out, deadfalls and storm damage on the trails needs to be cleared out, and I need the excersise and I enjoy the activity.

But from a purely financial aspect, it's much cheaper to buy natural gas.

A lot depends on where you live. In this part of the country NG is only available in the cities or larger towns. Propane and electricity are very expensive ways to heat. Most people use oil here. Pellets are somewhat popular, but they're kind of a PITA and the stoves are noisy.

I also heat primarily with wood, with a FHA oil furnace as backup. Don't remember the last time I filled the tank...we mostly only use it in the spring/early fall when you need to take the chill off but don't really need sustained heat. I don't have enough hardwood on my land to cut my own, so I'll get a log-length load ever 2-3 years and cut/split myself. I've never sat down and calculated cost over and above the wood itself and consumables. I don't factor in the time involved...I'm mostly retired so I've got plenty of free time, and it's good exercise.
Truck, tractor, chainsaw...all stuff I had already and would still have even if I weren't heating with wood. Splitter (bought used) paid for itself first year I had it.

Dunno what I'll do when I'm physically unable to cut/split wood anymore. Hopefully that day is a ways off, a bridge to cross when I get there.
A wood stove is just such pleasant heat...the house just feels warmer despite what a thermometer says.

 

[shooterdon]

Ever think about adding propane storage capacity?
If there is enough capacity then the propane can be bought when price is the lowest. I own my tank and can buy when and where I choose, and 400 gallons (One 500 gal tank) is enough to get me though. If I used propane full time, could add another or larger tank. Just a thought

I pre-buy and lock my price in for the season. Currently at $1.39/gal. thos year. If I decide to add an LP generator, I may buy a second tank not to save money but to have enough on hand for an extended outage.

 

[Deere Dude]

My set temperature is 65*. But that is irrelevant to the cost comparison.

When my fiancé is here it is 68* and she is still cold. When we get married, I suspect it will be 70*.

Lifestyle will determine how much one spends on heating, but it will not affect the relative cost of different fuels. If you enjoy a 60* set point, that is what works for you and you will spend less.

No way my wife would tolerate 65 degrees, the heat pump would be back on in a flash. She tolerates (with constant muttering) 69 degrees.

Our thermostat is set at 60-65 someplace but may only kick in over night. Generally we get up, start the fire and burn it all day. During the day If the temp in the central living room gets down to 66 the fireplace comes on and stays on until 76-78 then I shut the fan off and just maintain that temp. Good for lounging around in the PJs. The bedroom stays cooler, like 60.

 

[shooterdon]

Oaktree,
I am in my late 60痴 so starting to feel it. Like you, NG is not available here. By putting together the spreadsheet I got a very good handle on my costs, and I can update it every year to determine what makes sense.

I love a fire and will always have one if I am able. Even if only during times I am relaxing. But I cannot be dependent on having to process 10-11 cords every year as I get older to heat the home. Propane got to over $4/gal 5 years ago. That is expensive!! Almost a necessity for me to have firewood.

I currently run 60% propane for heat and maintain a two year supply of wood. I got hurt one year and learned my lesson. Planning on having a three supply put up. I keep a 700 sqft shop heated to 50* with propane as all my reloading stuff is there. Planning on moving the reloading operations into my basement and that will cut my propane use significantly.

Getting old just throws a few challenges at us. If I want to stay here in my little slice of heaven, I need to be smarter and prepare.

 

[LouNY]

I don't burn wood even though I have a lot available.
When I was working I didn't really have the time to stay ahead of wood.
I grew up heating with wood, a couple of my brothers still heat with wood.
When oil got so outrageous a few (10) years ago I installed a coal insert in my fireplace.
As others have said a fire is a different and some think a nicer heat, also with a fire I keep the
house warmer then I would with a furnace,because it makes my wife happier.
3 tons of bagged coal, about $600 to $750 saves me over 500 gallons of fuel oil a year,
with the living half of the house warmer then it was kept with oil.
Coal (hard coal)has a learning curve but I like it much better then wood, it's harder to get lite,
but it's easy to have a setup that only needs attention once every 12 or 24 hours. And a huge
amount less work, store it outside in the snow and rain it doesn't care, I pick up a pallet of bags
bring it up to the house garage, dump a bag into a bucket to take in and pour in the heater, shake the ashes down
carry the ash pan out to the steel trash can, done for the day.
Even with a replacement knee, copd and a bit of a heart issue coal is easy, wood would be rough.

 

[deserteagle71]

Sure wish I could get propane for $1.39 per gallon! It's been years since it was below $2 a gallon.

No natural gas out here. Fuel oil extremely expensive. Most people burn pellets. I'm still burning wood even though I have to haul it all the way from Oregon. At my age, this time of year I need my house warm - generally keep it between 75 and 80 degrees.

 

[goeduck]

I'm still burning wood even though I have to haul it all the way from Oregon.

Wow! How do you haul it? How much do you use? And from where in OR?

 

[AllDodge]

Hauling wood from on state to another can also spread pest

 

[Diggin It]

I hear that all too often. Do people really not know that many of these type pests can fly?

 

[tjkubota93]

I hear that all too often. Do people really not know that many of these type pests can fly?

Dragging them around in your pickup gives em a head start

 

[AllDodge]

I hear that all too often. Do people really not know that many of these type pests can fly?

Why do they need to fly? If they crawl or fly they move slow. If their in a tree that gets cut up for fire wood and trucked across the country, they spread faster. I hear adds from the Forrest service asking folks not to bring in their own camp fire wood. The pine beetle wiped out ever pine for miles a few years ago around here.

Firewood Map - Don't Move Firewood

 

[goeduck]

Northern Nevada and SE Oregon are dry areas, firewood would be a little scarce. Unless deserteagle71 goes to the western side of Oregon but that is a really, really long haul and require one big firewood truck.

 

[deserteagle71]

Wow! How do you haul it? How much do you use? And from where in OR?

Burns, Oregon area. Right on the edge of some vast forests. Used to be several different guys there that I could get firewood from but now I can find only two. Too much hassle with government agencies to get permits to cut wood. Even trees that have been burned, or that bark beetles have killed - government position is they'd rather see it rot than cut down and burned as firewood. There are areas in northern Nevada where range fires have killed a lot of trees but the BLM refuses to issue woodcutting permits. Used to be 20 years ago, anything "dead and down" could be harvested with a permit but no longer.
Burns is about 250 miles one way from me. Below is how I bring it in. About 5 cords at a time and that lasts me a couple years. I invested in a super-efficient stove with a catalytic converter 20+ years ago; it was expensive but worth every dime. I feed it twice a day and it keeps the house ~75 degrees, the way I like it.

As far as helping bark beetles spread...it is many, many miles to the nearest pine tree from where I live. This is desert around here. They just have to starve to death!

 

[goeduck]

Burns, Oregon area. Right on the edge of some vast forests. Used to be several different guys there that I could get firewood from but now I can find only two. Too much hassle with government agencies to get permits to cut wood. Even trees that have been burned, or that bark beetles have killed - government position is they'd rather see it rot than cut down and burned as firewood. There are areas in northern Nevada where range fires have killed a lot of trees but the BLM refuses to issue woodcutting permits. Used to be 20 years ago, anything "dead and down" could be harvested with a permit but no longer.
Burns is about 250 miles one way from me. Below is how I bring it in. About 5 cords at a time and that lasts me a couple years. I invested in a super-efficient stove with a catalytic converter 20+ years ago; it was expensive but worth every dime. I feed it twice a day and it keeps the house ~75 degrees, the way I like it.
View attachment 591904

As far as helping bark beetles spread...it is many, many miles to the nearest pine tree from where I live. This is desert around here. They just have to starve to death!

Impressive! Trees grow here like weeds so it is interesting to see how you do it from a desert. Very nice. What brand of CAT stove?

 

[deserteagle71]

Impressive! Trees grow here like weeds so it is interesting to see how you do it from a desert. Very nice. What brand of CAT stove?

Blaze King.

 

[Oaktree]

Curiously, how do you west-coast guys get a fire to burn all night with nothing but softwoods? Is it just a fact of life that you've got to get up & feed the stove at 2am?

 

[ultrarunner]

Well... if West Coast includes the SF Bay Area not much worry about burning all night as wood burning stoves are no longer allowed in any new construction and measures keep being floated to remove existing on change of ownership... has not happened yet.

On the coldest winter nights it is Spare the Air where wood burning is simply banned and roving smoke inspectors follow tip lines...

I have all the oak firewood I could ever use and can't give it away locally...

At the new place which is vacant it was 52 inside so I turned on the gas furnace and bedroom gas fire place... they did a good job bringing the temp to 72 for my test.

The next day I checked the utility smart meter for my home which shows usage and real time cost...

$12 (1.60 Therm) in natural gas to go from 52 to 72... for the 10 hours I was there...

Home is 3200 square feet with high ceilings... triple pane windows and 2x6 framing.

Also have radiant in the shop and downstairs... was used one time when new... the builder owner said he never felt cold in the shop which is similar to a walk out basement

The solar PV generated 12 kWh surplus that day... enough to run a portable electric heater for 6 hours???

 

[Diggin It]

Y'all keep a'remindin' me of reasons I ain'ta never gonna live in CA.

 

[deserteagle71]

Curiously, how do you west-coast guys get a fire to burn all night with nothing but softwoods? Is it just a fact of life that you've got to get up & feed the stove at 2am?

I don't believe you read my post above. I feed my stove twice a day, once in the morning when I get up and once in the evening before going to bed (and at my age I go to bed early!).

Most people don't understand how a good airtight catalytic converter stove works. Once the fire is going, good and hot to activate the catalytic converter, you turn the air down and the fire in the stove appears to go out.


But if you look up inside at the catalytic converter, it is glowing orange.


The thermometer in the top of the stove is pointing at 1,300 degrees here, and that big pot of water next to it is hissing steam to keep the air in the house from being too dry.


There is a precise control for the air on the side of the stove to regulate how much heat the stove will put out. This setting, on a day like today (25 degrees), keep my house at around 75 degrees.


I have burned wood for heat all my life. There is simply no comparison between the stoves of years ago and a modern airtight stove with a catalytic converter. No smoke comes out of the chimney - the catalytic converter burns it all up just as it does in your car. Stoves not designed this way waste most of their heat up the chimney with the wood burning up much too fast. I would love to burn hardwood but since it is not available around here I make do with juniper and pine. The other thing that helps with long burn times is to not use small pieces of wood. Bigger the better.