How much winch is enough?

[alaarp]

Bought a 10k rated dual axle trailer with brakes on both axles and auto stop box and wanted to add a winch to the front to hoist either of my tractors onto the trailer if they fail to crank. So I bought a HF 5000 pound rated winch and was planning to have a mount welded to the trailer for this purpose. Now, a buddy of mine who does a lot of welding and has built trailers from scratch tells me he had a 5000 pound Warn winch on his trailer and it would not pull a Ford Mustang onboard. He says I need to buy the 12,000 pound rated winch at least for tractors. Has anyone else had experience with winching tractors on trailer? How about opinions on Harbor Freight winches, especially the 12k models?

 

[JPRambo]

I have a HF 2500 lb winch on my trailer. If I don't double line it it will not pull my 93 jeep pioneer put it. Need to double line it foritto work at rated weight. Most winches are rated at the first wrap of the line on the spool. After the first wrap they are derated considerably.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Double line a HF 5K winch and it should do fine for "pulling", but do you mean actually "hoisting" something or pull it on??

Only problem I've had with HF winches, is the duty cycle.

SR

 

[MTGreen]

Remember the winch rating is for when there's only one layer of line/cable on the winch. Each subsequent layer of line/cable is rated for substantially less. So if you are pulling with three or four layers of line wound on a 5,000 lb winch spool your actual pulling power may be a half that or less. I seem to recall that Warn had a chart on their website at one point that showed the actual pulling power at each subsequent layer of line.
You don't mention how heavy your tractors are but there are a lot of factors involved in addition to weight like how steep are the ramps, the rolling resistance of the tires, the drivetrain resistance, etc.
The only benefit to buying a lower power winch is that it generally pulls in a little faster versus the same brand and design rated for the higher power.
Unless you have a subcompact/lawn type <2000 lb total weight tractor, I would recommend paying a little bit extra and getting the 12k.

 

[RandyT]

Double line a HF 5K winch and it should do fine for "pulling", but do you mean actually "hoisting" something or pull it on??

Only problem I've had with HF winches, is the duty cycle.

SR

The thing is the other big winch companies don't publish duty cycles and just say to use your best judgement. What I am finding from the 4x4 sites is the duty cycle under full load on a Warn 12K winch is 30-60 seconds, as compared to the HF which is 45 seconds.

 

[nisaacs]

Like others have said, read the fine print. Unless you are doing commercial recovery, a winch use for the home owner is rare. A rolling load is pretty easy, so 5k should be fine, you can always double line. If you mount the winch permanent then size/weight is not so important, but if it is portable than get a lighter one. You don't want a 100 lb portable winch to pack around. If you mount it permanent be sure and cover it.

I have/had several 8k that are/were permanent, I also have a 3k portable.

 

[sea2summit]

I find it hard to believe a 5k winch won't pull a mustang onto a trailer. Only time I ever had to pull my tractor onto my trailer I used a 5k chain hoist and while it took forever it got the job done.

I think 5-7.5 should be fine, if you have a "sticky" spot or need more pull just have the pullies ready for setting up mechanical advantage and you'll be fine. Probably easier on the trailer frame anyway to use multiple points to anchor on really heavy moves (7.5x2=15k, that's a whole lot of stress).

 

[alaarp]

Double line a HF 5K winch and it should do fine for "pulling", but do you mean actually "hoisting" something or pull it on??

Only problem I've had with HF winches, is the duty cycle.

SR

Pulling the tractor on to the trailer.

 

[alaarp]

Remember the winch rating is for when there's only one layer of line/cable on the winch. Each subsequent layer of line/cable is rated for substantially less. So if you are pulling with three or four layers of line wound on a 5,000 lb winch spool your actual pulling power may be a half that or less. I seem to recall that Warn had a chart on their website at one point that showed the actual pulling power at each subsequent layer of line.
You don't mention how heavy your tractors are but there are a lot of factors involved in addition to weight like how steep are the ramps, the rolling resistance of the tires, the drivetrain resistance, etc.
The only benefit to buying a lower power winch is that it generally pulls in a little faster versus the same brand and design rated for the higher power.
Unless you have a subcompact/lawn type <2000 lb total weight tractor, I would recommend paying a little bit extra and getting the 12k.

The tractor weighs around 4500+ pounds with FEL and implement attached.

 

[MTGreen]

The tractor weighs around 4500+ pounds with FEL and implement attached.

I would think a reasonable minimum would be the 9,000 lb model in my experience, roughly double the weight of the load to make it useful at any angle or winding depth.
Full size trucks averaging 6k or so use a 12k winch, and Tacoma/Ranger size trucks at 3-4.5k use a 9k winch

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

The solution, and I've have a winch on my trailer, 20+ years, and I haul junk. Use a 50' cable and double line it. That way, it's full power. Good battery. Use chain from pulley to tractor. That way you can shorten or adjust as needed. Works best if you use a short chain hooked on tractor in a loop around front axle. Then other long chain loops through axle chain and eye or hook on pulley. Those winch blocks at hobo frate are sold right beside the winches. And it helps greatly to have chain to tie tractor off when you're in the middle of winching, in case you need to let winch off and re-adjust your situation. Say you're almost to the top of ramps. I carry a 3 ton lever hoist just in case. It will load a tractor without any wheels on it, but I break out in a sweat every time I glance at it. So I keep it hidden. I have come alonged a two ton army truck with flats all around, up on a trailer. It was WW2 truck parked in mid 60's, and grown up in the jungle down here, and was complete.

HF winches are fine, they'll hang with the others. 5,000 double lined, should be fine with a rolling load. I've had a 5,000 and it did fine. Like I said, a shorter cable and a pulley will maximize everything. When you pull and front wheels break over the ramps, you can re adjust and connect pulley to short chain and pull onto trailer.

Keep some wheel chock blocks too. In case your trailer is facing down hill, and I always try to winch that way if I can. This is Arkansas and I don't live in the flat part. Just throw one in front of a wheel because tractor may roll up and hit the front, and you don't want that. Or your load may be too far forward, and you'll have to get it back rearward. So tie pulley at rear of tractor and single line to front of tractor and pull it back some. You can un load it that way also, if your trailer is down hill at your unload location.

I have three trucks with pto winches, flat beds with gin poles and rolling tail boards. Two 2 - 1/2 tons with cranes that you can set trusses on a house with. One 4wd 4 wheel steer rough terrain crane, 30,000 lb lift. A few service trucks with cranes. Its all just old things that still works. But, with a double line pulley, chains, and blocks, you should be just fine.

It's was a dangerous life growing up in the south. As a young boy, I prayed. I didn't pray for a wife, and I don't have one. I didn't pray for children, and I don't have any. I did pray to be old and die with all my fingers and toes, and I still have all of them. So I'll be the first to tell you, prayer has worked for me. See, I figured if I had my fingers and toes, I would have everything in between.

 

[Tinhack]

Yikes! But don't do this. Wire through metal should have a grommet.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The thing is the other big winch companies don't publish duty cycles and just say to use your best judgement. What I am finding from the 4x4 sites is the duty cycle under full load on a Warn 12K winch is 30-60 seconds, as compared to the HF which is 45 seconds.

I have both, the Warn 12K and the HF 12K. My warn has thermo overload shutoff, if you run it too long under heavy load it will shut off and only spool out, the HF will keep going until it destroys itself. I've read of guys burning out the HF 12K.

I've winched with my Warn 12K for several minutes, over and over dragging a fully loaded (building supplies) 3/4 ton pu, some of the way dragging on the frame, through a long swamp in the Alaskan bush and not had it shutoff because it wasn't so hot it "tripped" the thermo, I wouldn't trust my HF to do the same thing, no way.

I also have other winches, 25,000, 9000, 5000, 3500, 2500 so I have an idea on what and how winches will pull...

I have seen several of the 2500 winches burn out and also just plain break, they are cheeep for a reason.

SR

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I would think a reasonable minimum would be the 9,000 lb model in my experience, roughly double the weight of the load to make it useful at any angle or winding depth.
Full size trucks averaging 6k or so use a 12k winch, and Tacoma/Ranger size trucks at 3-4.5k use a 9k winch

This is a 10,000 and we drag several logs at a time, pull out equipment, whatever. He should be fine with 5k and double line pulley. I would always have a pulley anyways. We made the fairlead. You can see the log loader in the background.

 

[fidowanttobe]

I have an #8000 Warn. With a good battery I can pull a Blazer on with very low tires on a single line easy. No problem.

 

[bcp]

HF's 5000 winch data;

Bruce

 

[alaarp]

HF's 5000 winch data;

View attachment 767288
Bruce

That is all good information. Where did you find this?

 

[alaarp]

The solution, and I've have a winch on my trailer, 20+ years, and I haul junk. Use a 50' cable and double line it. That way, it's full power. Good battery. Use chain from pulley to tractor. That way you can shorten or adjust as needed. Works best if you use a short chain hooked on tractor in a loop around front axle. Then other long chain loops through axle chain and eye or hook on pulley. Those winch blocks at hobo frate are sold right beside the winches. And it helps greatly to have chain to tie tractor off when you're in the middle of winching, in case you need to let winch off and re-adjust your situation. Say you're almost to the top of ramps. I carry a 3 ton lever hoist just in case. It will load a tractor without any wheels on it, but I break out in a sweat every time I glance at it. So I keep it hidden. I have come alonged a two ton army truck with flats all around, up on a trailer. It was WW2 truck parked in mid 60's, and grown up in the jungle down here, and was complete.

HF winches are fine, they'll hang with the others. 5,000 double lined, should be fine with a rolling load. I've had a 5,000 and it did fine. Like I said, a shorter cable and a pulley will maximize everything. When you pull and front wheels break over the ramps, you can re adjust and connect pulley to short chain and pull onto trailer.

Keep some wheel chock blocks too. In case your trailer is facing down hill, and I always try to winch that way if I can. This is Arkansas and I don't live in the flat part. Just throw one in front of a wheel because tractor may roll up and hit the front, and you don't want that. Or your load may be too far forward, and you'll have to get it back rearward. So tie pulley at rear of tractor and single line to front of tractor and pull it back some. You can un load it that way also, if your trailer is down hill at your unload location.

I have three trucks with pto winches, flat beds with gin poles and rolling tail boards. Two 2 - 1/2 tons with cranes that you can set trusses on a house with. One 4wd 4 wheel steer rough terrain crane, 30,000 lb lift. A few service trucks with cranes. Its all just old things that still works. But, with a double line pulley, chains, and blocks, you should be just fine.

It's was a dangerous life growing up in the south. As a young boy, I prayed. I didn't pray for a wife, and I don't have one. I didn't pray for children, and I don't have any. I did pray to be old and die with all my fingers and toes, and I still have all of them. So I'll be the first to tell you, prayer has worked for me. See, I figured if I had my fingers and toes, I would have everything in between.

That is a good post but could you explain "double line it"? Do you mean run the cable through a snatch block attached to what you are winching and then attach the cable end hook back to the winch or beside it?

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

That is a good post but could you explain "double line it"? Do you mean run the cable through a snatch block attached to what you are winching and then attach the cable end hook back to the winch or beside it?

Yep, it's a 10,000 winch then.

 

[sea2summit]

That is a good post but could you explain "double line it"? Do you mean run the cable through a snatch block attached to what you are winching and then attach the cable end hook back to the winch or beside it?

Yes. Mechanical advantage, that is doubling the pull force. If you ran it through another block and back you’d quadruple it. Or you can get really fancy getting three to one advantages…but it’s a pain with cables.