Branson 6530C still having AC issues

[dclt736]

The drier in the Branson also has the sight glass. and some time the fluid is a lime green and looks like foam.

 

[cbg8670]

Sight glass should be clear. Either low charge or restriction before sight glass.
Color shouldn't be lime , unless their is a dye in the refrigerant for leak check

 

[dclt736]

Thanks for that information. One of the problems i don't know how to work around is that all the information i find about testing AC pressures show it is done at high RPM on engine and full cold called for. As i reported in my long story as few days ago, when i do run the system at 1500 RPM, as stated in the Branson service manual the AC works fine and the pressures are what the manual states is normal. Also the sight glass is clear at this time. It is only when i allow the tractor to idle for some time say between 4 and 15 minutes that i run into the increase of pressure on the low side and the very high raise of pressure on the high side, which starts the compressor to cycle rapidly and the system to blow warn air. And so i seem to be running in circles. I am hearing, low gas levels, bad condenser, to much oil, dirty system as possible causes, but not finding any published information to back any of this up. As all information out there talks about test values at a high engine speed, vs idle.

 

[cbg8670]

Some questions
1 . Where is the sight glass vs the drier vs your high side hose connection
2. Have u let any refrigerant out since last charge. Still has slightly over 3 lbs.

Most air conditioning runs at constant speed. Vehicle/tractor speed vary with engine obviously. That being said when at lower speeds expect suction to be little high and high pressure to be little lower. At normal speed pressures should be at" normal". If your manual says these pressures at this rpm I'd follow that.

Start tractor and ac if blowing cold let her run and watch sightglass see if it is clear then goes foamy..

 

[5030]

Lime green is leak detection solution, someone added it somewhere along the line If you see bubbles, the charge is low.

 

[jaxs]

Thanks for that information. One of the problems i don't know how to work around is that all the information i find about testing AC pressures show it is done at high RPM on engine and full cold called for. As i reported in my long story as few days ago, when i do run the system at 1500 RPM, as stated in the Branson service manual the AC works fine and the pressures are what the manual states is normal. Also the sight glass is clear at this time. It is only when i allow the tractor to idle for some time say between 4 and 15 minutes that i run into the increase of pressure on the low side and the very high raise of pressure on the high side, which starts the compressor to cycle rapidly and the system to blow warn air. And so i seem to be running in circles. I am hearing, low gas levels, bad condenser, to much oil, dirty system as possible causes, but not finding any published information to back any of this up. As all information out there talks about test values at a high engine speed, vs idle.

What I'm about to say might raise some hackles,maybe yours or maybe not but there's far too many sore toes around to avoid stepping on them from time to time. This thread could easily serve as poster child on how not to get things done. Right out of the box op asks for information he can pass along to someone he has hired. I can't explain all the reasons why this wrong but no professional in any field wants to hear what some joker on the web said. Most said what the issue is but never said how to prove or eliminate that issue. The same opinion of issue was repeated even though op had already assured that had been eliminated. The first day op posted and gave a few symptoms,someone said "If what you said is accurate (100% of first charge was still in system when evacuated and recharged) the only thing that makes sense is admittedly far fetched but here gos. If high pressure side has over pressure protection,therein could lie the answer." To my knowledge the suggested tests were never done but 2 weeks later,a part replacement and another evac & recharge it became obvious. When you consider that he said "the only thing that makes sense" and gave simple instructions for testing rather than just blurting out a possible issue and leaving it at that,you might think the guy was serious. Which brings use to sitting here over 2 weeks later "running in circles". If you think the guy just made a lucky guess,maybe he could be convinced to try his hand again. If you think the guy might apply common sense,a little science and experience to troubleshoot instead of randomly guessing,maybe look there for a path forward from here.
In summation,it's difficult to hear what is being said,much less weigh it when the whole room is shouting. Troubleshooting is about testing then using common sense to evaluate test results. As for going to the manuals,that's the first step but the manual is written with the expetation reader understands the principles and will combine them with specs. Most important,this same movie plays out every day over and over but it doesn't appear we learn anything and just keep on doing it. That's my 2 cents,spend it wisely.

 

[dclt736]

Some questions
1 . Where is the sight glass vs the drier vs your high side hose connection
2. Have u let any refrigerant out since last charge. Still has slightly over 3 lbs.

Most air conditioning runs at constant speed. Vehicle/tractor speed vary with engine obviously. That being said when at lower speeds expect suction to be little high and high pressure to be little lower. At normal speed pressures should be at" normal". If your manual says these pressures at this rpm I'd follow that.

Start tractor and ac if blowing cold let her run and watch sightglass see if it is clear then goes foamy..

Right now we have about 3.2 lbs in it. Now for the sight glass in the top of the drier. My drier is located right after the condenser, maybe about a foot of hose between it and the condenser. If you are asking (cbg8670) does the glass show on the inflow side or the out flow side that i am not sure, i think i would have to take it apart to confirm if you are viewing the inlet flow or the outlet flow. And are you suggesting to start the tractor and idle and watch or start the tractor and increase to 1500 rpm and watch the sight glass?

 

[dclt736]

What I'm about to say might raise some hackles,maybe yours or maybe not but there's far too many sore toes around to avoid stepping on them from time to time. This thread could easily serve as poster child on how not to get things done. Right out of the box op asks for information he can pass along to someone he has hired. I can't explain all the reasons why this wrong but no professional in any field wants to hear what some joker on the web said. Most said what the issue is but never said how to prove or eliminate that issue. The same opinion of issue was repeated even though op had already assured that had been eliminated. The first day op posted and gave a few symptoms,someone said "If what you said is accurate (100% of first charge was still in system when evacuated and recharged) the only thing that makes sense is admittedly far fetched but here gos. If high pressure side has over pressure protection,therein could lie the answer." To my knowledge the suggested tests were never done but 2 weeks later,a part replacement and another evac & recharge it became obvious. When you consider that he said "the only thing that makes sense" and gave simple instructions for testing rather than just blurting out a possible issue and leaving it at that,you might think the guy was serious. Which brings use to sitting here over 2 weeks later "running in circles". If you think the guy just made a lucky guess,maybe he could be convinced to try his hand again. If you think the guy might apply common sense,a little science and experience to troubleshoot instead of randomly guessing,maybe look there for a path forward from here.
In summation,it's difficult to hear what is being said,much less weigh it when the whole room is shouting. Troubleshooting is about testing then using common sense to evaluate test results. As for going to the manuals,that's the first step but the manual is written with the expetation reader understands the principles and will combine them with specs. Most important,this same movie plays out every day over and over but it doesn't appear we learn anything and just keep on doing it. That's my 2 cents,spend it wisely.

Thanks Jaxs, first i have not being using what i have gotten off this forum with my shop repair guy. He has done what he felt he would do with what he has seen on his testing. And the few times he had done the repair, and ran the tractor the system was working as normal and that was again proven by me using my own gauges. So i am not bashing him. This guy knows me and understands that i don't have endless cash to throw at this issue. We have both agreed that so far the repairs where needed. ie the old compressor was leaking, so a new one was required and with that a new drier. The system was then charged to the manual level of 134a to 2.78 lbs, and was working when i pick it up. Once it start to cycle, he felt that the gas charge was too light. Branson informed us that 3.5lbs was the correct amount. After that charge and it failed my Branson dealer suggested that we replace the expansion value, which is a cheap part but requires the system pumped down so more cost. Then we back off a bit on the refill to 3.2 lbs. At this point i throw in the towel, as now over 2K into the repair i was not any further along. So before i ask them to again test the system, i was just wanting to educate myself as to what the next sort of step would be. I was burned before on this tractor when my dealer started to repair a noise in the front drive axle with break downs and rebuilds only to find out after all the work, that the problem was in the rear diff when the pinion nut worked it way off the shaft and the problem showed as a hop in the right front tire when in forward only. So right now, i am just looking to see what i can learn. And most likely my next step is to just drop the tractor off at either my garage or the Branson dealer let them go at it. And true, not everyone has good information, but most are trying to be helpful on this forum and it make for interesting reading. Cheers

 

[K5lwq]

A while back I had a local guy locate a starter for a Branson that I am working on bringing back to life. He had just worked on a Branson tractor A/C unit but I do not remember the model.

He told me that he determined the condenser was a little small for the system. He located and installed a larger one and said it made a huge difference. He suggested if I start having issues with my 4815C cooling to let him know and he would be glad to upgrade mine as well.

I share this because of one thing you pointed out. When you operate at a higher RPM the system is in the correct pressure ranges but high side climbs at idle. I would be thinking this is because of reduced air flow from the fan. Also when you are testing the hood is up so you do not have the foam filling the gap between the condenser and radiator. That is if yours is designed similar to mine. This would also take away from the efficiency of the condenser.

I would try the test again but when the high pressure starts to rise, I would cool down the condenser with a water hose and watch the pressure. If it comes back into range at idle with the help of water, then that might indicate a problem with proper cooling of the condenser.

First thing to look at would be is the condenser fins clean. Like really clean. Second would be is the fan clutch working properly. Then is there something you can do with baffles to increase air flow across the condenser.

These things you can do yourself without spending lots of money. If you find it helps, then maybe save up some money over winter and see if you guy can find a larger condenser so it will handle the heat for next year.

Anyway, good luck and hopefully you will find the answer soon.

 

[cbg8670]

Right now we have about 3.2 lbs in it. Now for the sight glass in the top of the drier. My drier is located right after the condenser, maybe about a foot of hose between it and the condenser. If you are asking (cbg8670) does the glass show on the inflow side or the out flow side that i am not sure, i think i would have to take it apart to confirm if you are viewing the inlet flow or the outlet flow. And are you suggesting to start the tractor and idle and watch or start the tractor and increase to 1500 rpm and watch the sight glass?

Where is the high side hose attached? Between compressor and condenser or condenser and drier. I'm asking to try help determine where blockage could be. Earlier u said it would quit after "x" amount of time while operating assuming at higher rpm all that time.
As far as speed while watching sight glass use 1500 rpm.
Also I have let refrigerant out of a system to get pressure down to maintain running while I searched for problem. Original manual said 2.7 lbs then yall by factory added some. We know now that it's high pressure trips not low so removing some may help

 

[Cougsfan]

What I'm about to say might raise some hackles,maybe yours or maybe not but there's far too many sore toes around to avoid stepping on them from time to time. This thread could easily serve as poster child on how not to get things done. Right out of the box op asks for information he can pass along to someone he has hired. I can't explain all the reasons why this wrong but no professional in any field wants to hear what some joker on the web said. Most said what the issue is but never said how to prove or eliminate that issue. The same opinion of issue was repeated even though op had already assured that had been eliminated. The first day op posted and gave a few symptoms,someone said "If what you said is accurate (100% of first charge was still in system when evacuated and recharged) the only thing that makes sense is admittedly far fetched but here gos. If high pressure side has over pressure protection,therein could lie the answer." To my knowledge the suggested tests were never done but 2 weeks later,a part replacement and another evac & recharge it became obvious. When you consider that he said "the only thing that makes sense" and gave simple instructions for testing rather than just blurting out a possible issue and leaving it at that,you might think the guy was serious. Which brings use to sitting here over 2 weeks later "running in circles". If you think the guy just made a lucky guess,maybe he could be convinced to try his hand again. If you think the guy might apply common sense,a little science and experience to troubleshoot instead of randomly guessing,maybe look there for a path forward from here.
In summation,it's difficult to hear what is being said,much less weigh it when the whole room is shouting. Troubleshooting is about testing then using common sense to evaluate test results. As for going to the manuals,that's the first step but the manual is written with the expetation reader understands the principles and will combine them with specs. Most important,this same movie plays out every day over and over but it doesn't appear we learn anything and just keep on doing it. That's my 2 cents,spend it wisely.

Thanks for pointing out that we don't live in a perfect world. You are correct that forums are indeed a source of bad information and it isn't presented in a unified and systematic manner to people with an equal level of understanding and knowledge. But buried inside that it can also be a source of good information. You just have to sort through it. We all should understand that. Sometimes something less than perfect is much better than nothing at all. That's my 2 cents, I'd put in in savings.

 

[Branson Bob]

Thanks for pointing out that we don't live in a perfect world. You are correct that forums are indeed a source of bad information and it isn't presented in a unified and systematic manner to people with an equal level of understanding and knowledge. But buried inside that it can also be a source of good information. You just have to sort through it. We all should understand that. Sometimes something less than perfect is much better than nothing at all. That's my 2 cents, I'd put in in savings.

To add, the posts in this topic are motivated only by good intentions.

It's up to any and all to sift through the information to find the kernels of value.

 

[Mud2Money]

I am not familiar with this models components but I would assume it has a pressure switch. Has anyone changed it ? I had a f250 that would run cold for a short while then go hot. Shut the air off and turn it back on. It would blow cold then cut off. The pressure switch ended up being bad. After it was replaced no more issues.

 

[Gator6x4]

I had a friend (Deceased now) than owned/ran a large vehicle repair and Service Center. He in the last years of operating the Business refused to work on AC Systems.

I have doubts in my mind that this AC unit will ever be repaired. I think the poster said the pressure switch and expansion valve and compressor has been replaced.

He is now talking about direct wiring the compressor. If he has a question about whether a system component in the system is causing the short cycling this is like going to Hong Kong to solve a problem that is occurring in the Virgin Islands.

Direct wiring of the compressor for a very short period of time why closely monitoring pressure gauges will determine if the Compressor Clutch assembly is bad and provide information that a AC component is not causing the short cycle problem and it is the AC compressor clutch assembly that is causing the problem. Extreme high pressures and component damages can occur by direct wiring.

Hook gauges to the Unit. Start the tractor and watch the gauges. Does the high or low sides go up and then the compressor starts short cycling. Yes - No. If no, stop the tractor, put a jumper wire on the High Pressure switch. Restart start the tractor watch the gauges to assure no excessive pressure builds up.

Does the compressor short cycle with the pressure switch jumperEd, Yes - No. If yes the problem is not the pressure switch. Turn the tractor off, remove the jumper wire from the pressure switch and reconnect.

Go inside the vehicle. Look at the interior temperature control. Is it manual or digital electronic. Can you easily get to the wires on the back of the temperature control? Does the interior unit have blend doors controlled by a controller which is controlled by the interior temperature measuring device?

Either turn the temperature control to it’s lowest position or jumper the temperature control. Restart the tractor does the tractor short cycle or operate continuously now? Operate continuously then your problem is not the temperature control. If compressor continues to short cycle with the temperature control set to it's lowest position or jumpered your problem is the temperature control.

 

[jaxs]

To add, the posts in this topic are motivated only by good intentions.

It's up to any and all to sift through the information to find the kernels of value.

Thank you for your view. How does one know which is chaff and which are kernels of value unless they are already well versed ,in which case they wouldn't be asking for help?
I seem to have a problem figuring out whether a poster is asking for help or or looking for entertainment. In the words of this thread's OP "And true, not everyone has good information, but most are trying to be helpful on this forum and it make for interesting reading. Cheers"