Branson 6530C still having AC issues

[Gator6x4]

Short cycling if the gauges show the proper low and high side pressures is an indication the low pressure sensor is malfunctioning.

 

[jaxs]

Ever indication says freon is leaking out and low pressure switch is doing what it's supposed to,prevent compressor to run and burn up for lack of freon. It hinges on whether tech ACTUALLY recovered ALL of the first 2.78 Lbs or just claimed he did. I would have to see it to believe it if it were my tractor.

 

[5030]

First off, the refrigerant isn't Freon, Freon is obsolete, replaced with non CFC refrigerant and secondly, I use dried propane in place of the CFC refrigerant. One it's compatible with all the current refrigerants and won't harm the seals and two, it provides much better heat transfer but it is quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Gator6x4]

First off, the refrigerant isn't Freon, Freon is obsolete, replaced with non CFC refrigerant and secondly, I use dried propane in place of the CFC refrigerant. One it's compatible with all the current refrigerants and won't harm the seals and two, it provides much better heat transfer but it is quite a bit more expensive.

Aware of propane R290 being used in R22 Chillers but had not heard it was being used in R134a units. When did they start that?

 

[dclt736]

Just a short updated, i started the tractor last night after is sat for a few days, AC was turned on and started to cool, low pressure pipe at the compressor was cold and high pressure pipe was hot, however within 4 minutes it started to cycle the compressor, with on time being no longer then a second or two and then shut off for 5 or 6 seconds and cycle again. Tractor is going to the garage this afternoon for a full debugging. I also have a new expansion value in case. Am also going to ask about if it is possible too much oil in the system, as the new compressor came charged with oil.

 

[5030]

Aware of propane R290 being used in R22 Chillers but had not heard it was being used in R134a units. When did they start that?

A while ago and you can buy cans of it online and at some auto parts stores as well. Thermal conductivity is much better than 134.

 

[Gator6x4]

A while ago and you can buy cans of it online and at some auto parts stores as well. Thermal conductivity is much better than 134.

Good to know.

 

[jaxs]

First off, the refrigerant isn't Freon, Freon is obsolete, replaced with non CFC refrigerant and secondly, I use dried propane in place of the CFC refrigerant. One it's compatible with all the current refrigerants and won't harm the seals and two, it provides much better heat transfer but it is quite a bit more expensive.

Thank you for that correction,I hope my slip of tongue didn't cause op to drain the system and refill with R-12. Even worse,I hope he didn't drain and refill with propane since "it is quite a bit more expensive".

 

[Gator6x4]

Another thought that entered my mind is some Foreign Automotive Manufactures and US Manufacture's are using R1234yf in the AC system. The difference in the correct charge weights the OP received made this come to mind. I haven't used any R1234yf but have been told the charging weight is different than R134a.

This small can is listed on Amazon for $35.00.

Ebay offers three cans of the r290 for $35.95.

Amazon offer this can of r134a for $15.50

 

[dclt736]

Good evening, and here is the update on my Branson. Tractor was taken to the garage and AC turned on. It operated as normal for over 45 minutes (what a surprise), holding pressures of 50 low side and 280 high side. For me these are high for the tractor, and above what the manual states is normal. After about 45 minutes the compressor start to go into the start stop cycles, but was still making cold air. At that time, we saw the high pressure side really start to spike up to and above 380 so we shut it down. Once shut off, the rate of pressure drop on the high side and pressure rise on the low side (equalization) was very slow, which is normally a good indicator of a blockage, and most often it is the expansion value. We have now installed the new one. Due to being end of day, the garage will vacuum the system tomorrow morning, check again for any leaks and then recharge. Also the system was charged with 3.5 lbs and the recovery showed 3.48 lbs, so that would tend to show that the cause was not due to leak in the first place. That also confirms the pump down when the system was charged with 2.78 lbs. We are thinking also to drop down recharge to be something between the 2.78 lbs in the manual and the 3.5 lbs told to us by Branson.

 

[5030]

the garage

Do you mean your dealer or some fly by the seat of their pants shade tree place? 'Garage' can mean lots of things, some good, some bad.

 

[dclt736]

No, the dealer is to far away to look after this sort of problem, i have to truck the tractor back and forth, and as the problem has been off and on, gets costly. Dealer has supplied all the parts and is away of the issues and feels they would have done similar steps. The garage is a very good operation, they are well respected, and do all my auto and truck repairs. Also owner and family are full time farmers, so understand equipment. That being said the garage is a business mainly for cars and trucks, they don't look for tractor work. I only have them working on the AC, all other work has been done my Branson dealer. I know i have made it sound like they are not on top of this, but considering that when i tell them the system is down, and then bring them the tractor and the system is operational, does make thing look good. I trust them to do what they feel should be done. And fully understand it from there point, he told me flat out, that he wasn't just gong to start replacing stuff, if he felt he was sure it was the problem. Look at a lot of youtube and it is easy to jump to conclusions on AC reading and not fix a problem. Will see how the replacement of the expansion value effects the system. It was only 70 CAD for it so cheap considering the cost of the compressor and dryer.

 

[Gator6x4]

No, the dealer is to far away to look after this sort of problem, i have to truck the tractor back and forth, and as the problem has been off and on, gets costly. Dealer has supplied all the parts and is away of the issues and feels they would have done similar steps. The garage is a very good operation, they are well respected, and do all my auto and truck repairs. Also owner and family are full time farmers, so understand equipment. That being said the garage is a business mainly for cars and trucks, they don't look for tractor work. I only have them working on the AC, all other work has been done my Branson dealer. I know i have made it sound like they are not on top of this, but considering that when i tell them the system is down, and then bring them the tractor and the system is operational, does make thing look good. I trust them to do what they feel should be done. And fully understand it from there point, he told me flat out, that he wasn't just gong to start replacing stuff, if he felt he was sure it was the problem. Look at a lot of youtube and it is easy to jump to conclusions on AC reading and not fix a problem. Will see how the replacement of the expansion value effects the system. It was only 70 CAD for it so cheap considering the cost of the compressor and dryer.

AC repair is not rocket science. If the garage can fix car and truck AC systems they can fix a tractor AC. They probably welcome the opportunity as it offers a chance to broaden their repair knowledge in the agriculture arena because a lot of off road equipment is now coming into the market with AC Installed.

 

[dclt736]

Agreed, i asked them up front if they would be ok with this. Also, i am doing all the prep work, ie, removing all the tractor metal panels and cab roof to reduce there time on it. This shop is very busy and i am happy they are working with me on this. ie, i installed the compressor, air dryer and last night the evap value, most places would not work this way. Also they are a 25 minute tractor drive away, vs an hour truck float drive away to my nearest Branson dealer, which i am lucky is that close, they are one of the few in all of Ontario still handling this brand, Branson is not a big brand in Ontario, It was maybe more popular 15 years ago, but most dealer have dropped them.

 

[dclt736]

New update after installation of expansion value. Tractor had vacuum applied and then a recharge of 3.2 lbs of 134a. We have run it for 1.5 hours and function was normal the whole time. Pressures are 45 and 240 and steady, still a little above the book values. So things are looking good. Real test will be Saturday with a high of 30C here and a full day of bush hogging in the works. That should be a good test of the AC to see if we have finally fixed it.

 

[Branson Bob]

New update after installation of expansion value. Tractor had vacuum applied and then a recharge of 3.2 lbs of 134a. We have run it for 1.5 hours and function was normal the whole time. Pressures are 45 and 240 and steady, still a little above the book values. So things are looking good. Real test will be Saturday with a high of 30C here and a full day of bush hogging in the works. That should be a good test of the AC to see if we have finally fixed it.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[dclt736]

Good afternoon all, and i wish i had a better update, but the AC did not work once i got to the job site. Again, the system went into a short cycling mod. Most likely a high pressure switch protecting the compressor and system.
I am going to step back and see what my Dealer has to say as there is not much left that we haven't looked at.
Still cannot work out why the system works after we do a recharge for a while and then just stops. And always goes into this cycling.
Thanks for all the suggestions and support.

 

[claggstractors]

Did you ever pull apart the AC unit in the roof and clean out the evaporator and heater coil? I've worked on these tractors since they were new. The AC constantly recircs some of the inside air without filtering it.

 

[dclt736]

Yes, i thought i had posted some photos of the evaporator and heater coil. But i did open up the enclosure and blow out the dust and dirt, which was minimal. I will take the front end apart so that i have good access to the condenser and reclean it as well. Bush hogging mature growth can put a lot of stuff up into the screens. The problem is that it is a major job to get those rads separated to do a good cleaning. Poor design of the oil cooler, condenser, rad, battery and air filter arrangement on this tractor. In fact the battery and air filter box are in front of them and block more then 60 percent of the surface area. Images show them as found not after i cleaned them up.

 

[cbg8670]

Does it have a high and a low pressure safety. See if you can find a "tattle tail" of correct voltage to put in parallel with switches. That will tell you which one is tripping. Did yall blow all the lines and both coils while it was down and apart?