How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

[bdhsfz6]

Did I miss something? Is the 500’ of pipe already out? That is the hardest part. 20-25 years ago means there probably will be 20’ sections of pvc down 500’. So 25 pieces to pull. If the pump is broken off the at the bottom it won’t weight much. When you do it normally, the pipe is filled with water and the pump is on the end. So 500’ would be a lot of weight. But if you pull the pipe without something to support it out of the hole it will break. So you need something to support each piece as it comes out and gets unscrewed from the next piece of pipe. Or just factor in getting new pipe.

No, the pipe is still in the well. It's definitely iron pipe according to the neighbor who saw it installed 25 years ago. I'm familiar with the removal process. the well guys use a special clamp that holds the pipe coupler. It hooks to the lip of the well casing and keeps it from turning while each piece is unscrewed.

It is possible the pipe and or pump was damaged when it hit the bottom of the well so it probably should be pulled completely to check. In that case, a new pump on poly pipe will go back in.

 

[Carl_NH]

To get the wire, do you have a extendable tree trimmer tool with the hook/cutter - this could grab the wire - cover the cutter knife with something rigid so you dont cut but grip the wire and pull up slowly.

You should be able to pull with the wire once you get it top side, but if its all galvanized pipe thats a pro job. If it was plastic it's doable.

 

[bdhsfz6]

To get the wire, do you have a extendable tree trimmer tool with the hook/cutter - this could grab the wire - cover the cutter knife with something rigid so you dont cut but grip the wire and pull up slowly.

You should be able to pull with the wire once you get it top side, but if its all galvanized pipe thats a pro job. If it was plastic it's doable.

It's definitely iron pipe.

 

[stumblinhorse]

No, the pipe is still in the well. It's definitely iron pipe according to the neighbor who saw it installed 25 years ago. I'm familiar with the removal process. the well guys use a special clamp that holds the pipe coupler. It hooks to the lip of the well casing and keeps it from turning while each piece is unscrewed.

It is possible the pipe and or pump was damaged when it hit the bottom of the well so it probably should be pulled completely to check. In that case, a new pump on poly pipe will go back in.

Ok. I am following now. You could probably grab the top of the pipe and pull it up high enough to repair the pitless adapter. Not sure what you have for equipment but if it is iron pipe that didn’t break when it hit the bottom, going to be a lot of weight to haul up. So Probably not by hand. Use a come along or something or a tractor with something else to pull backwards with the rope over the bucket and with a vehicle pulling back? Going to be luck if you can get something around the pipe/pitless. Then you are back to where you started at least…

 

[Carl_NH]

If you did get the wire and pipe up to the top, you could get a new pitless adaptor installed and maybe you don't need a new pump - could be an upside to trying to pull this up now.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I do not think the wire connection is going to support the weight. You will have to grab the pipe. At best the wire is connected to pump soldered and shrink wrapped. Then electrical taped to the pipe. if you have iron pipe, pump and water for 400-500’ That will be over 1000 pounds. Just not sure of weight since I have never seen iron pipe used. Could be more like 2000 pounds. Even PVC pipe would be close to 800 pounds at that depth.

 

[LouNY]

1 1/4" sch. 40 pipe app. 2.27 pounds per ft; sch 80 3 pounds per ft.

1 1/2" sch 40 pipe app. 2.72 pounds per ft; sch 80 3.63 pounds per ft.

Also depending on the depth of the water the pump and pipe will appear to be lighter while submersed.

I would not trust the wiring for much of a pull, but a hook or noose around the pipe and pitless adapter would be good.

Also most of the pitless adapters I've been around are threaded for 1" npt at the pull point.

 

[turnkey4099]

I suddenly lost all pressure and water began collecting around the well head. The well is +/- 500' deep with a 3/4 hp. submersible pump in a 6" casing. I dug out and exposed the pipe where it connects to the casing and found water spraying out around the pit-less adapter. I removed the pipe from the adapter and found it was loose where it connects to the well casing. Like a bone head, I pulled the loose adapter from the casing without first securing the pump pipe at the well head. Yeah, the pipe, pump & wiring went for a swim. As I recall, the pump was set about 30' above the well point so the iron supply pipe & broken adapter should be 30 to 35' below the well head. Unfortunately, I can't see it with a flashlight and the steel recovery cable has long since rotted away.

Since I lack any special equipment, I called the local well service company but they are still backed up due to the pandemic. They say it could be a month before they can get out here. Luckily, the well serves just the barn and I'm carrying water up from the house for the livestock.

I could put the system back together myself if I could recover the pump. I don't have to pull it completely from the well, just enough to install a new pit-less adapter. I know the weight of the pump and 400+' of pipe will be excessive. Assuming I can grapple the pipe somehow, I'll have to rig a tripod & winch to lift it. Well drillers use a camera, special grapple and winch rig to recover pumps. Should I just keep hauling water and wait for the experts?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Just a thought and it probably has already been suggested. If there is enough water above the top of the broken pipe, jusst put in a new pump and new pitless adapter and leave the junk in there.

 

[plowhog]

I recently had a well pump replaced. The experienced well technician had a boom truck with special rigging to lift the old pipe up one section at a time, then grip it again close to the well head so the recently raised section could be unscrewed/removed.

I can't imagine trying to DIY that using a tractor, bucket, come-a-long, or anything else available to me. The vertical lift and need to hold something up that high, securely, while changing the attach point was beyond that ....

 

[Eagle1]

When I replace my 3hp pump sitting ~210 feet plumbed with 2" or 3" galvanized steel pipe the boom truck did some serious wheelies and gyrations for the first couple of sections. Also took 4' pipe wrenches with cheater bars to break the pipe section apart. Need the big pump to move water up to the 12,000 gallon tank on top of the ridge, about 500' above the pump, 300' feet above the bottom of the water system. Get good pressure from gravity alone and the pump only runs once a week during busiest months.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I recently had a well pump replaced. The experienced well technician had a boom truck with special rigging to lift the old pipe up one section at a time, then grip it again close to the well head so the recently raised section could be unscrewed/removed.

I can't imagine trying to DIY that using a tractor, bucket, come-a-long, or anything else available to me. The vertical lift and need to hold something up that high, securely, while changing the attach point was beyond that ....

Yes. Pretty much how 90% of older wells are done. The special rigging is just a threaded short piece of pipe attached to the boom. Screw it onto the pipe like the previous piece that was removed. Lift the remaining pipe up. Slide a plate of metal that is big enough to go around the pipe and sit on the well head, but smaller than the joint. lower the boom down to rest the pipe on the metal plate and unscrew the pipe section now above the plate. Once unscrewed move it off to the side With the boom. Unscrew the short pipe. Screw that into the joint sitting on the plate. Rinse and repeat.

 

[ponytug]

On the reasons not to attempt the retrieval, the possibility that trying might block the well irreparably would be high on my list. Drilling a new 500' well isn't going to be cheap anywhere.

Using @LouNY's pipe numbers, it would seem that the lift is on the order of a ton; 1500+lbs of pipe, 80lbs of water in the pipe, 110lbs of wire, and a hundred pounds or so of pump. Oh, yes, and the safety cable. You'd also need the well head clamp for the right sized pipe, and the winch to pipe adapter, and the 4-8' pipe wrenches need to unthread 25 year old pipe. Plus of course, the grapple capable of lifting a ton safely, the 25-30' winch tripod to be able to lift a 20' section clear of the well head, and the winch that is capable of safely lifting that much weight without overheating.

All that I am saying is that to me this is a little more involved than snagging a lost fishing rod in a pond.

All the best,

Peter

 

[orezok]

On the reasons not to attempt the retrieval, the possibility that trying might block the well irreparably would be high on my list. Drilling a new 500' well isn't going to be cheap anywhere.

Using @LouNY's pipe numbers, it would seem that the lift is on the order of a ton; 1500+lbs of pipe, 80lbs of water in the pipe, 110lbs of wire, and a hundred pounds or so of pump. Oh, yes, and the safety cable. You'd also need the well head clamp for the right sized pipe, and the winch to pipe adapter, and the 4-8' pipe wrenches need to unthread 25 year old pipe. Plus of course, the grapple capable of lifting a ton safely, the 25-30' winch tripod to be able to lift a 20' section clear of the well head, and the winch that is capable of safely lifting that much weight without overheating.

All that I am saying is that to me this is a little more involved than snagging a lost fishing rod in a pond.

All the best,

Peter

Why would you go to the trouble, time and expense to unscrew the pipe if you are going to replace it. Just take a portable band saw and zip it off.

 

[grsthegreat]

Why would you go to the trouble, time and expense to unscrew the pipe if you are going to replace it. Just take a portable band saw and zip it off.

Not sure id want all the metal filings going into the well. Im sure alot would even if you try to block well head between cuts.

 

[arto98607]

Nothing like rusty steel on the bottom of the well...

 

[MossRoad]

On the reasons not to attempt the retrieval, the possibility that trying might block the well irreparably would be high on my list. Drilling a new 500' well isn't going to be cheap anywhere.

Using @LouNY's pipe numbers, it would seem that the lift is on the order of a ton; 1500+lbs of pipe, 80lbs of water in the pipe, 110lbs of wire, and a hundred pounds or so of pump. Oh, yes, and the safety cable. You'd also need the well head clamp for the right sized pipe, and the winch to pipe adapter, and the 4-8' pipe wrenches need to unthread 25 year old pipe. Plus of course, the grapple capable of lifting a ton safely, the 25-30' winch tripod to be able to lift a 20' section clear of the well head, and the winch that is capable of safely lifting that much weight without overheating.

All that I am saying is that to me this is a little more involved than snagging a lost fishing rod in a pond.

All the best,

Peter

Wouldn’t the only additional water weight be the amount of water in the pipe that’s above the water level in the well? Anything below the water level in the well can be discounted. So now it only weighs…. A lot more than I can lift safely.

 

[hosspuller]

The danger is getting the power cable or the safety cable or something else wedged between the pump and the bore wall. If that happens, then OP is in serious trouble. Let the pros do it.

 

[ponytug]

Wouldn’t the only additional water weight be the amount of water in the pipe that’s above the water level in the well? Anything below the water level in the well can be discounted. So now it only weighs…. A lot more than I can lift safely.

wise guy. Yes, you are right. Totally valid point, but I did take a stab at that. So here is the bigger thinking. If the well is 500' deep, and the pitless adapter and wires are in view, that means the assembly didn't drop that far, so the water level above the pump couldn't have been that much higher either as it is only a 2HP pump lifting 470'+, and therefore not high flow. Plus, you don't drill wells deeper than you have to to get the yield that is needed. (Guesstimated at the yield rate of 5-7gpm, and some draw down.) If it is in really impermeable rock, even below his shale, then yes, the water column might be 100-200', and I didn't budget for that much. That is more like a Vermont well drilled into granite ($$$). The real weight is the iron pipe; the water is may be 5% of the total, less if you are right and the well is low flow with a high water table... I didn't add in the extra weight for the couplers, which are another 25-40lbs, depending on what schedule pipe they are.

All the best,

Peter

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I think you have to accept two things:
1. You are going to need a new pump and pipe.
2. You're not going to be able to install the new pump and pipe yourself.

I think the most you can hope for would being able to get the pipe end to the surface and reconnected so that you can have water until a professional can replace the pump. You'd have the side benefit of not having to pay to have the pipe lifted (although if you can do it, it probably would be pretty easy for a professional.) If you got the pipe to the surface you could cut the end off with a sawzall and use a flexible coupling to attach a new pitless adapter, that should keep you going until it can be permanently fixed. If the pipe end is fairly close you could pull it up with a winch or even a come-along, 2,000 lbs is a lot but it's manageable. You'd need something to tie onto which could be your tractor.

So the first question is establishing how far down the end of the pipe is. You could probably use a fishing weight on a string and try to hit it, but I like the idea of the endoscopic camera. The real issue is grabbing onto the pipe. Specialized tools are made for grabbing the pipe. I couldn't find a lot of info online, but I did find one here: The Fetch broken well pipe and pump removal tool . It's about $700 to buy, they also offer a rental option which is about $500.

How far is it from the house to the barn? A roll of 3/4" black poly pipe is about $.50 per foot, PEX is slightly cheaper. It might be easier to run a temporary pipe from the house and wait a month.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Well it turns out, one of the wires I see 10' down in the casing is the end of the steel retrieval cable. It was the clamp that attached the cable to the casing that rotted off. The cable itself appears to be 1/4" galvanized steel and looks to be in pretty good shape. I should be able to grab it but it likely won't be long enough to clear the top of the casing. I would have to hold it taught and try to get a come along clamp on it:



It should make it easier for the pro's but just another tool I'll have to get. The consensus of posters seem to think it would be best to let the pro's handle it. So far, I'm inclined to agree.