What creates "bad diesel" fuel ?

[DieselBound]

I run only off-road diesel from a local Chevron distributor. There's enough farm and construction machines around that the distributor has a good turnover. Never a problem with fuel. 150 gallon bulk fuel storage tank.

For my cars I almost entirely use only one station, I think they're Mobile. My truck mechanic wagged a nasty finger when I mentioned this, saying that he had to do a bunch of repairs on someone's truck that fueled up from this station. This was in the context of me wondering why his son's TDI, which came from me, ended up with a filter (CAT filter on that car and on mine) had a bunch of black crap in it. After maybe 60k miles on the CAT filter in my car I replaced it (prematurely) when doing some major service. The fuel that came out was pristine. I continue with fueling up at this station. It's a major truck stop.

I have only ever ONCE found water in fuel and it was in my Kioti. Early after new I struggled with getting water-in-fuel light coming on. I could find no water in my OUTSIDE bulk storage METAL fuel tank (which, according to everyone should be piling up water inside of it- removing bung never brings out any water): I do, however, have a water filter as well as a regular particulate filter on it. Even some 5+ year old fuel that came with my diesel generator (was sitting- pulled from a truck)- nada. Nothing in my B7800 or my Polaris diesel, both under cover but not in conditioned space (ha ha). ONLY my new Kioti was struggling. The culprit turned out to be a bad fuel cap; a locking cap which was letting rain water in: it rains a LOT here (try 100"/year). As soon as that cap was replaced (with another, but better locking cap) the problem disappeared. Over 10 years and probably a 1,000 gallons and nothing. Not the fuel. Not the storage tank.

Say no to biofuels... (intent might have been good, but the results are bad all the way around)

 

[JWR]

Good stuff. Thanks for the correction regarding algae/bacteria. I've always heard it called algae. I'll adjust my verbage accordingly.

Agree. I'm not an advocate of additives in general but some of the biological contaminations that occur can be a reason to look for a specific kind of additive -- not to be used all the time but to clear a chronic problem. In the boating world I had a very experienced boat engine repair friend tell me to use an enzyme type additive to clear out biological origin crud in my gasoline fuel system for a Yamaha outboard. I had tried all kinds of other things . replacing filters, cleaning lines, changing fuels, etc. which did not work. This turned out to be darn near a magic wand or immediate cure. STAR BRITE Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment SEF Gasoline Formula - 1 oz. Treats 6 Gallons - 8 OZ (14308) It is sold by Amazon. I realize this is a very different fuel, different type engine, pretty much apples and oranges... BUT if all else fails I would look around for an enzyme type additive to get rid of biological contamination.

 

[JDAOWNER]

I haven't read all posts, but does anyone use kerosene to thin fuel so it doesn't gel.

 

[ruffdog]

I haven't read all posts, but does anyone use kerosene to thin fuel so it doesn't gel.

I have a fuel distributor that sells #1 diesel so I can buy jugs of that to blend. The neighbor that is an excavator business runs his big tank lower as winter comes so the fuel guy can blend it with #1. The Bobcat dealer also blends about 60/40 with #1.

 

[RalphVa]

Might have been a algae issue.

In my case, it was definitely wax that I fished out. Read somewhere that the additives may not work on some hydrotreated diesel fuel.

 

[RalphVa]

I haven't read all posts, but does anyone use kerosene to thin fuel so it doesn't gel.

Have used in the past. Benz even advocated using gasoline one time but a bad statement on their part: creates an explosive mixture in the gas space of the tank. Most winter fuels have kero blended in.

 

[OpsPops]

Been reading this forum for quite some time. Finally signed up and registered. But beyond that this BAD DIESEL thread solicited my comment.
First winter with my new Kubota (and my first experience with diesel) I was clearing snow in Manitoba with a windchill of -30C / -22F NOT realizing that diesel can gel.
Of course the fuel gelled stranding me about 100 feet from my garage.
A buddy helped me pull and push the tractor into the garage to let it thaw, and he introduced me to a great product.
Fired up the next morning without a problem after learning about DIESEL 9-1-1 can save the day in such temperatures.

My son-in-law is an engineer onboard a Canada Coast Guard vessel.
He told me about having to use algicide with the diesel used in the ships - something I was totally unaware of.
Things you learn after retiring from one career, starting up a small business and appreciating the skills of the men that have married my daughters.
Life is good.

 

[Sberry]

Todays low sulpher is no worse for crap growing in it than it ever was. Remember when carb rebuilding was routine. Not including chain saws I havnt bought a small engine part or even carb part for decades, last thing I can remember was needle and seat. If you let it sit long enough its not gonna start, pretty simple but it seems somewhat like a recent concept and it isnt. Gas tanks are clean these days.

 

[5030]

Todays low sulpher is no worse for crap growing in it than it ever was. Remember when carb rebuilding was routine. Not including chain saws I havnt bought a small engine part or even carb part for decades, last thing I can remember was needle and seat. If you let it sit long enough its not gonna start, pretty simple but it seems somewhat like a recent concept and it isnt. Gas tanks are clean these days.

What is, is B20 bio diesel. That stuff is wicked good for growing micro organisms.

 

[fidowanttobe]

This topic baffles me. I too have a 50 gallon storage that I treat and filter before it goes in the tractor, so does my family farm, but know and have heard, (I'm sure you all have too) many more stories of diesels, tractors, scrapers, dozers etc., that have been parked for years, even decades and they run fine on very, very old fuel. So is it that those old engines will run on anything?? Why don't those injectors and pumps fail??? The old diesel doesn't contaminate like modern day??

 

[sunandsand]

Gotta neighbor who politicizes EVERYTHING. He was going to buy an 8,000 gallon tank and fill it up with diesel so he'd never run out. The fact that he'll never use that much fuel in his entire life is unimportant - he'll HAVE it. He has one Kubota mid-size tractor and an older GM diesel truck (which he doesn't drive much).

Anyway, it is all the fault of (fill in the politician to blame today) that the price of diesel has gone up to where he can't afford to fill that tank, which he hasn't bought anyway, because of them etc. etc. etc. (Covid has nothing to do with it, OPEC has nothing to do with it, refinery fires have nothing to do with it, hurricanes in the Gulf have nothing to do with it . . . you get the idea.)

Actually, all these evil forces arrayed against HIM PERSONALLY (to hear it told) may have done him a favor. If he fills that tank and it leaks or grows algae or whatever, now he'll have 8,000 gallons of essentially unusable fuel unless he treats it with gallons and gallons of algae killing chemistry and fixes the leaks - if he can find them.

He'll also be talking to the EPA and the local environmental regulators who are not a very pleasant or understanding crowd (ask me how I know this) about his brand new contaminated property which is now eligible to be an EPA superfund site. Note that the EPA only designates, they aren't paying for the cleanup (although some federal funds - i.e. our tax dollars - are sometimes available).

The water table is pretty high here, too, so he'd be contaminating multiple square miles of the aquifer as well - oh boy oh boy.

Environmental cleanups on this scale are astronomically expensive. When I was a mortgage broker, banks flatly refused to lend on gas stations because if the borrower defaulted, the owner (now the bank) has to pay for the cleanup. The fact that the bank didn't cause the leak is immaterial, the bank is the owner and the bank has to pay, period. (Not that I have a huge problem with that, but anyway . . . ) Small spills and small amounts of contaminated dirt can run up bills of over a quarter of a million dollars, which makes it pretty obvious why banks won't lend on gas stations. There are plenty of other borrowers out there who won't break the bank - no pun intended - if they default.

The contaminated dirt has to be dug up, trucked off to an EPA approved facility and incinerated. We're talking six or seven figures on small to medium size spills. Even on small spills or small leaky underground tanks, I have seen them require a power driven ventilation system running 24/7/365, and *somebody* has to pay the power company for the electricity - the EPA isn't real picky as to who.

Probably the best thing that could have happened to him was the increase in the price of fuel, it kept him from getting himself into some REALLY big time and expensive trouble.

He's a good guy, I'd rather hear him complain about his lost opportunity to stock up forever than listen to him wail about the EPA coming after him and fining him a bajillion dollars. ("Will Sir be paying with cash, check, or credit card?")

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Odd. Biodiesel is more expensive than petro diesel.

Them folks order 3,000 gallons at a time. Just like me, I don't care what fuel costs because I have to have it. I either charge more or make my coffee at home. Make up for it somewhere else.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

This topic baffles me. I too have a 50 gallon storage that I treat and filter before it goes in the tractor, so does my family farm, but know and have heard, (I'm sure you all have too) many more stories of diesels, tractors, scrapers, dozers etc., that have been parked for years, even decades and they run fine on very, very old fuel. So is it that those old engines will run on anything?? Why don't those injectors and pumps fail??? The old diesel doesn't contaminate like modern day??

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

 

[ruffdog]

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

....and the filters they use now are finer than they use to be so they plug up quicker.

 

[blizzardslayer]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

About 16 years ago I experienced a sudden drop in rpm while blowing snow, almost to the point of stalling. It recovered immediately after I took my foot off the accelerator. Since the temperature was in the teens, I chalked it up to fuel gelling. I changed the fuel filter and started running an anti-gel additive in case that was the problem. The problem occurred rarely over the next 13 years. It always happened, in retrospect, early in the winter after the tractor had been sitting for most of the summer. It also would happen when temperatures were not low enough to cause gelling so I began to rule out fuel gelling. However, changing the fuel filter resolved the issue for a while. I tried to research it online but would always ask questions in the context of fuel gelling so never arrived at a solution. After having it happen one morning a few years ago, I went to get another filter at Napa. I ran into Doug Cole, the previous owner of Napa in Mount Shasta, Ca and told him about the problem I was having. Without hesitation, he told me I had microbial contamination in my diesel. To put it simply, it creates a sludge that will plug fuel filters. Information on diesel microbial contamination is exhaustive online and is worth understanding. I now run a diesel biocide and have not had any problems since. Low sulfur diesel is prone to contamination. Be aware that if you do have contamination in your tank, you could experience a plugged filter after treating with biocide, however, I did not. Diesel biocide is produced by a few companies. Power Service makes a product called Bio-Kleen which is available at both Napa and O’Reillys in Mount Shasta. Other measures that are important are: keeping your fuel tank full to reduce condensation, and using a water removal additive. I have run across two tractor owners recently who have had similar issues and I’m assuming we’re not the only ones. Hope this helps

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

....and the filters they use now are finer than they use to be so they plug up quicker.

Most exactly right. So if they sell the feel good tingly feeling bio fuel and dont tell you.... Then you start having all the problems you can't understand.

 

[ruffdog]

When the forest cutting crew showed up mid winter to cut/chip the trees, a cold spell hit and froze up the equipment. The first 500hp chipper had fuel gelling and the only thing the guys said was "**** biodiesel". After changing filters more than once and dumping 911 into it, they shipped up another 60 ton chipper. When it is warm you can run BD but not 10-15 below zero.

 

[ovrszd]

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

My two 40 year old Fords will burn just about anything. They smoke like a freight train and love fuel.

 

[ruffdog]

My two 40 year old Fords will burn just about anything. They smoke like a freight train and love fuel.

Yeah, same with my dad's David Bradley tractor. I think it would run on oil straight from my mom's fryer.

 

[billypumper]

When my small lawn tractor (X758) sits in the winter time I always put Sea Foam in the tank seems to always take care of any problems you seem to have, use it in my 2002 F-250 Power stroke too.