My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

A lot of tractors will do that. What’s the problem? You could always get a HST model.

No that is antiquated technology that has been obsolete for many many years. The most bare bones PTO offered these days is Live PTO.

 

[jeff9366]

But this Kubota/Deere domination is regional.
What do you mean? Please explain.

Deere, with its great history in Iowa and diverse Big Ag product line dominates the prairie states where square mile farms are not unusual, a big swathe of the USA. I rarely see Kubota, LS, Kioti or Branson tractors on farms in Iowa or Nebraska, for example.

Deere is everywhere but Deere has less than half of Kubota's market share in compact tractors.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Ventrac 4500Y Dimensions​

2012 - 4500 Series Groundskeeping tractor

Variants
4500K	air-cooled gas
4500P	liquid-cooled gas
4500Y	diesel
4500Z	Kubota gas/LP

Ventrac 4500Y Engine
Kubota 0.9L 3-cyl diesel
Fuel tank	6 gal 22.7 L

Ventrac 4500Y Transmission

hydrostatic

Ventrac 4500Y Power
Engine	25 hp 18.6 kW

Ventrac 4500Y Tires
Ag front	21x11-8
Ag rear	21x11-8
Lawn/turf front	22x12-8
Lawn/turf rear	22x12-8

Dimensions
Wheelbase	45 inches 114 cm
Length	81.5 inches 207 cm
Width	48.5 inches 123 cm
Height (ROPS)	68 inches 172 cm
	54 inches (folded) 137 cm
Weight	1655 lbs* 750 kg
	1750 lbs* 793 kg
Ground clearance	5 inches 12 cm

Jeff would you say the weight paradigm also applies to implements?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Deere, with its great history in Iowa and diverse Big Ag product line dominates the prairie states, a big swathe of the USA. I rarely see Kubota, LS, Kioti or Branson tractors in Iowa, Kansas or Nebraska, for example.

Why do you think the other brands are gaining traction in the Southern states?

 

[scaredychicken]

Deere and Kubota are everywhere in Canada

Lots of Massey, Kioti, and Deutz ...

 

[jeff9366]

Jeff would you say the weight paradigm also applies to implements?

Indubitably to Three Point Hitch mounted implements.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Deere, with its great history in Iowa and diverse Big Ag product line dominates the prairie states, a big swathe of the USA. I rarely see Kubota, LS, Kioti or Branson tractors on farms in Iowa or Nebraska, for example.

Deere is everywhere but Deere has less than half of Kubota's market share in compact tractors.



Have you watched the two Ventrac videos? Very interesting stuff.

Yes I have. Very interesting. Are you a Ventrac fan?

 

[jeff9366]

Why do you think the other brands are gaining traction in the Southern states?

Relatively small farms relative to the prairie states. Many hobby farms, 10 to 150 acres, suitable for compact tractors. Price is always important but not usually the primary consideration. Many hate the two big guys, Kubota and Deere because they cannot afford the premium prices. Deere is notoriously inattentive to compact tractor shoppers; attentive to Big Ag buyers.

Kioti seems like an excellent choice to me.

Kioti, Yanmar and Kubota are purported on T-B-N to make a higher proportion of comact tractor components in their plants, relative to other brands, which buy more components from contract suppliers. Long term, meaning longer than ten years, internal production probably increases the likelihood of continuing parts supply.

I prefer the simplicity of Kioti three cylinder diesel engines, over Kubota four cylinder diesel engines through 45 horsepower.

LS, Kioti and Branson are handicapped by only having compact tractors in the USA product line. It takes a talented capitalist to keep the doors open at a regional brand with a limited product line during tough times in the compact tractor market, which can dry up during recessions like 2008-2009. Not forfeiting the established customer who now wants a 100-horsepower tractor is another advantage for Deere and Kubota.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Relatively small farms relative to the prairie states. Many hobby farms suitable for compact tractors. Price is always important but not usually the primary consideration. Many hate the two big guys, Kubota and Deere because they cannot afford the premium prices. Deere is notoriously inattentive to compact tractor shoppers; attentive to Big Ag buyers.

LS, Kioti and Branson are handicapped by only having compact tractors in the USA product line. It takes a talented capitalist to keep the doors open at a regional brand with a limited product line during tough times in the compact tractor market, which can dry up during recessions like 2008-2009. Not forfeiting the established customer who now wants a 100-horsepower tractor is another advantage for Deere and Kubota.

Deere is notoriously inattentive to compact tractor shoppers; attentive to Big Ag buyers.

That has been my experience with them. I don't really like Deere as a company or the philosophy on which they are going to market but I can't deny that they build a good product that I happen to like a lot.

 

[jeff9366]

Yes I have. Very interesting. Are you a Ventrac fan?

I have never operated a Ventrac. I am now 74 years old. Tractor stability ranks as a higher priority with me every year as my balance and reaction time deteriorate and arthritis pain increases. And, I like innovative products.

I spent 37 years as a salesman. The well organized Ventrac salesman in the Ventrac videos, Neil Messick creating informative videos at Messick's Tractor (Kubota) and Ted Coriheer, creating informative implement videos at everythingattachments.com have my admiration, one salesman to another.

 

[jeff9366]

Have you considered a trip to Augusta? Perhaps you could convince the factory (through a dealer, of course) to sell you the specific model you require. If it meets US emission requirements there should be no big hurdles to overcome.

Tier V emission controls went into effect in Europe in 2020. I expect Tier V emission controls would bewilder the average USA tractor mechanic on a one-off basis.

 

[coobie]

Coobie, do you have any personal experience with Toro products? I took a look at the Toro Grounds Master front mount mowers last night but I am wondering if that would be rugged enough to stand up on rougher terrain. My property is not a golf course.

No I do not.Have a few friends that work at golf courses the use the toro products they state they are pretty stout and dependable.

 

[mikester]

Did you actually read my post? If not, go back and re read it.

I still don't have a clue about what you are looking for other than a way to vent your frustrations about mowing too much grass. Sounds like an issue, not an ish-me.

Go buy one of these

Tractors antonio carraro

Antonio Carraro produces a complete range of specialized, multifunctional, reversible tractors, suitable to be used in any type of crop and soil, even the most inaccessible.

www.antoniocarraro.it

First world problems...

 

[CADplans]

Dude I had the same reaction when I found out. I couldn't believe they would do something so asinine and stupid.

I think that JD offers that 30XXD tractor as an entry level machine,, for people that need to pull.
My BIL had over 1,000 acres when I worked there in the 1970's,,
and he had tractors that never powered anything with a PTO,,

So, the 30XXD machines do fit a niche,, I purchased my JD 4105 used, and,, believe it or not,,
the previous owner thought that they had worn out the tractor, and the PTO shield had NEVER BEEN REMOVED!!

I was the first one to ever remove the PTO cover,,, and the tractor was pretty ratty looking by that time.

Here it is, right before I bought it, you can see the PTO cover is still on,,
(all the manure is still "ON" from the previous owner)

So, even in 2014, this PO purchased a tractor intending to never PTO operate anything,,
and traded it in, only two years later,,

(the 4105 spent its entire early life pulling a manure scraper that was made out of 1/4 of a LARGE loader tire)

I would LOVE for those VENTRAC people to remake the YouTube video comparing my 4105 to the VENTRAC,,

I think the results might be slightly different,,,,,,,,,,,,

(They compared a VENTRAC with TEN tires,, to a JD with only FIVE tires,, that is a two to one difference!!)

 

[Jstpssng]

Dude I had the same reaction when I found out. I couldn't believe they would do something so asinine and stupid.

Go buy a geared L2501 or L3301. You have to buy a 3901 just to get the two stage clutch, even though they all are essentially the same tractor.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I think that JD offers that 30XXD tractor as an entry level machine,, for people that need to pull.
My BIL had over 1,000 acres when I worked there in the 1970's,,
and he had tractors that never powered anything with a PTO,,

So, the 30XXD machines do fit a niche,, I purchased my JD 4105 used, and,, believe it or not,,
the previous owner thought that they had worn out the tractor, and the PTO shield had NEVER BEEN REMOVED!!

I was the first one to ever remove the PTO cover,,, and the tractor was pretty ratty looking by that time.

Here it is, right before I bought it, you can see the PTO cover is still on,,
(all the manure is still "ON" from the previous owner)

So, even in 2014, this PO purchased a tractor intending to never PTO operate anything,,
and traded it in, only two years later,,

(the 4105 spent its entire early life pulling a manure scraper that was made out of 1/4 of a LARGE loader tire)

View attachment 714446View attachment 714447

I would LOVE for those VENTRAC people to remake the YouTube video comparing my 4105 to the VENTRAC,,

I think the results might be slightly different,,,,,,,,,,,,

(They compared a VENTRAC with TEN tires,, to a JD with only FIVE tires,, that is a two to one difference!!)

That's a good size tractor. The tires on the rear are pretty beefy. Is that tractor the same size as the current 4 series models?

Please explain the abbreviation TEN and FIVE.

 

[deezler]

Ten and five are numbers. lol. I think he was counting the mower deck wheels also.

Sorry if my former post was rude, btw.

 

[JWR]

Have you considered a trip to Augusta? Perhaps you could convince the factory (through a dealer, of course) to sell you the specific model you require. If it meets US emission requirements there should be no big hurdles to overcome.

You can't afford it ...

 

[bartjoebob]

You describe a "turf" application then go on to say your property is too rugged. Which do you need? How much area do you need to maintain? Do you have a lot of hills? Maybe ventrac is worth a look. Green paint is expensive and easily outspec'd by competitors now.

If I had a lot of average with lots of nice turf plus other field maintenance Iight go with either a belly mower/brush hog combo, or maybe a rear finish/hog combo. Massey now makes an 1800 series tractor with mid PTO, these are on par with 3 series Deere.

 

[huskerz]

I have a 90 - 100 HP JD that I use for turf management as well as other things and I love it. Why on earth would you want live PTO?

Didn't think there were any tractors made after 1940s that did not come without live power. Live power to me is when PTO operates independent of whether clutch is engaged.