My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors.

Where can I buy a NEW Ford tractor today?

I recommend Ventrac or a Kubota 'MX' to you.

Hey Jeff, thanks for the video and I agree that the Kubota MX is the modern day Ford 3000.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

What modern day tractor lacks the ability to run the pto with the tractor being stationary? I’m guessing none.

If there was ever a 3 legged Deere the 3043D is it.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Your posat

Question for the OP is the REAL QUESTION about money or availability ? You have been provided with a few options..

Coobie thanks for your recommendations. I am actually considering the Toro option that you suggested. I actually was not aware of that option until you pointed it out. I also learned last night when I was doing research on it that they offer a flail mower attachment for it which is what I want and need.

To answer your question, it's about both. Like I said in my introductory post, Deere has the 3046R but it's just stupid expensive. When you compare it up to other tractors like the Kubota MX5400 it just seems like a bad value and buy. I can speak for a lot of people who come on this site every day and ask for advice and help about purchasing tractors, it is the hardest thing in the world you will ever buy. The manufactures have so many choices and offerings and when you start comparing you go down a rabbit hole that you can almost never get out of. I finally had to just set a budget and then find the specs that got closest to what I want and need. However, you guys are shooting holes in my complaints which is good and I welcome. It challenges me to stretch my thinking.

 

[TMGT]

What exactly are you looking for criteria wise? Its not clear from your first post, you say medium size compact but then go on to discuss the Ford 3000 which has quite a few equivalents in size and power from most manufacturers (Kubota MX series to name one).

If you are looking for something smaller in the standard L or LX series then no, there's really no need for more HP as the size and capabilites of the machine really can't justify 50hp.

If the biggest need is a heavy duty front mounted mower then Powertrac is one good place to look, but it doesn't have dealers which seems to be one of your necessities.

(Looks like there were a few replies that answered some things while I was writing my response, guess that's what I get for taking a break half way through )

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

What exactly are you looking for criteria wise? Its not clear from your first post, you say medium size compact but then go on to discuss the Ford 3000 which has quite a few equivalents in size and power from most manufacturers (Kubota MX series to name one).

If you are looking for something smaller in the standard L or LX series then no, there's really no need for more HP as the size and capabilites of the machine really can't justify 50hp.

If the biggest need is a heavy duty front mounted mower then Powertrac is one good place to look, but it doesn't have dealers which seems to be one of your necessities.

(Looks like there were a few replies that answered some things while I was writing my response, guess that's what I get for taking a break half way through )

Yeah I can see where me mentioning the Ford 3000 could be a little confusing. My point with that was they were not exactly a full size compact tractor and they offered a lot of PTO horsepower in comparison to what they are offering today. However, they are also not as small as the Deere 3 series either. Far as tractor size goes the Kubota LX or Deere 3 series is the right size but is lacking some on PTO hp. The truth is those are my only two options far as tractors go that fit all my criteria.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

What about a Toro grounds keeper ?Toro auto cross 9060? Ventrac makes good machines.

Coobie, do you have any personal experience with Toro products? I took a look at the Toro Grounds Master front mount mowers last night but I am wondering if that would be rugged enough to stand up on rougher terrain. My property is not a golf course.

 

[CADplans]

What modern day tractor lacks the ability to run the pto with the tractor being stationary? I’m guessing none.

If there was ever a 3 legged Deere the 3043D is it.

I admit, I have not been on a JD 3043D,, but,,
the concept of "transmission PTO" may be being misinterpreted,,

There are at least two types of transmission PTO's,,
the simple one like my JD 650 has,, the 650 has a single stage clutch.
With single stage, when the wheel drive stops, the PTO stops.

Then, there is the two stage clutch PTO.

The two stage PTO equipped tractor can be operated exactly like a hydraulic PTO.
The tractor PTO does not disengage until the clutch pedal is FULLY depressed.
Partially depress the clutch pedal, the transmission only disengages.

This is a very common clutch system.

I have driven two stage equipped tractors, but, to the best of my memory,
I never operated a PTO attachment with that type tractor.

Yes, my JD 4105 has the best type PTO,, pull a button on the dash, the PTO softly engages.
Push in that switch, the PTO disengages.

 

[Williy]

My tractor has a button push down and turn
pto is on tap button its off. Yanmar YT235C

willy

 

[CADplans]

My tractor has a button push down and turn
pto is on tap button its off. Yanmar YT235C

willy

I thought the manufacturers had to go to this to comply with safety requirements.
With a switch, the tractor can be wired so that a seat safety interlock can be added,,

I do not know if a transmission PTO can have a safety interlock?

Sure, they can shut off the fuel,, but, the engine will continue to spin for 90 seconds, or more,,

The transmission PTO is kinda old fashioned,, but,,
My JD 650 has one, my Gravely 24G has a mechanical PTO disengage,,
and, my IH 584 has a one foot long lever that is moved to engage the independent PTO,,
I have no idea how the IH PTO operates, I just know it sure is smooth,,,

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I admit, I have not been on a JD 3043D,, but,,
the concept of "transmission PTO" may be being misinterpreted,,

There are at least two types of transmission PTO's,,
the simple one like my JD 650 has,, the 650 has a single stage clutch.
With single stage, when the wheel drive stops, the PTO stops.

Then, there is the two stage clutch PTO.

The two stage PTO equipped tractor can be operated exactly like a hydraulic PTO.
The tractor PTO does not disengage until the clutch pedal is FULLY depressed.
Partially depress the clutch pedal, the transmission only disengages.

This is a very common clutch system.

I have driven two stage equipped tractors, but, to the best of my memory,
I never operated a PTO attachment with that type tractor.

Yes, my JD 4105 has the best type PTO,, pull a button on the dash, the PTO softly engages.
Push in that switch, the PTO disengages.

CADplans it's a one stage clutch meaning when you press the clutch in to change gears the PTO stops. Deere ruined that tractor.

 

[CADplans]

You want a front three point hitch,, on a JD,, ??
Tim was doing a video of the 3025D, and at 7:45 into the video, walked over to the JD equipped with the front three point hitch,,
Maybe that tractor would suit you,,?? Tim said he wants one,,

I can not find where it says single, or two stage of the 3043D, or the 3025D, for that matter..
BUT,, when JD built my JD 650 with a single stage clutch,
the 850, and 950 had two stage transmission powered PTO's,,

That was back in the mid 1980's,,

The 850 was a 25HP tractor,,
35 years later I can not believe that JD would revert back to an antiquated single stage PTO clutch that was not used on tractors above 17HP back then,,,

From a Google search, a guy on "the other" tractor forum says his JD3025D has a two stage clutch,,,
We may never know,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[scaredychicken]

Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors.

Where can I buy a NEW Ford tractor today?

I recommend Ventrac or a Kubota 'MX' to you.

beat me too it ... VENTRAC and STEINER

 

[jeff9366]

Yeah I can see where me mentioning the Ford 3000 could be a little confusing. My point with that was they were not exactly a full size compact tractor and they offered a lot of PTO horsepower in comparison to what they are offering today. However, they are also not as small as the Deere 3 series either. Far as tractor size goes the Kubota LX or Deere 3 series is the right size but is lacking some on PTO hp. The truth is those are my only two options far as tractors go that fit all my criteria.

The manufactures have created so many models and model variants that when you start comparing you go down a rabbit hole that you can almost never get out of.

Count your blessings. Farmers in Cuba do not have the choices making your research difficult.

If you cease thinking in terms of SIZE and start thinking in terms of WEIGHT your research will be more productive.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor weight is more important identifying compact tractor capability than tractor horsepower.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors.

Compact tractors of the weight of Ford 3000, 3,700 pounds bare tractor, are the mid-weights in the compact tractor category, a high volume segment. Every manufacturer produces at least a economy and a deluxe model ( two models ) in this category. Deere offers four models in this category.

Then there is the issue of not being offered the option of a front mount PTO.

Kubota's 3,700 pound to 4,000 pound bare weight deluxe tractors, the Kubota 'Grand L' models, offer an optional front PTO, most often used to power front snow blowers and front brooms in the USA. As you should expect, ordering a second drive line for a compact tractor is an expensive option.

----- 0 -----​

Other brands? Models to look at or avoid? Buy new or used?

The design of the Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939 -- 82 years in 2021.

The Three Point Hitch tractor design is generic.

Kubota and Deere have most of the market through 6,000 pound bare weight tractors. But this Kubota/Deere domination is regional.

Some will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor. I found other brands were either distant from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there.

The up and coming compact tractor brands are Korean: Kioti, LS and Branson. There are other Korean brands. You have to critically assess dealer stability while shopping minor brands. Speaking only as an observer, not an industry insider, LS, Kioti and Branson are established in California, a huge consumer market with a major port of entry in Long Beach and in the fast population growth states touching the Gulf of Mexico, which includes Alabama.

I finally had to just set a budget and then find the specs that got closest to what I want and need.

Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices. Kubota is the gold standard in the compact tractor category. Deere dominates in 'Big Ag' tractors.

 

[scaredychicken]

my wish list, next tractor

4500 Tractor

It only takes one test drive on this incredibly agile, yet power-packed tractor and you'll know that the Ventrac 4500 is in a class of its own. An innovative design combines all-wheel drive, the Ventrac FlexFrame, and powerful engines to give you unmatched stability and control to get work done...

www.ventrac.com

 

[CADplans]

I think I will have to agree that the 3025D and 3043D JD's both have the single stage clutch.
I looked up the parts exploded view,, they both show only one clutch disk,,,

Hmmmmmmmmmm,,,,

 

[jeff9366]

If you are looking for a tractor exclusively for mowing and turf applications there are none. I wonder if that would be rugged enough to stand up on rough terrain. My property is not a golf course. Then there is the issue of not being offered a front mount PTO.

For exclusively mowing and turf applications I recommend Ventrac, now a division of Toro.
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

Far as tractor size goes the Kubota LX or Deere 3 series is the right size but is lacking some on PTO hp. The truth is those are my only two options far as (Three Point Hitch) tractors go that fit my criteria.

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

 

[4570Man]

CADplans it's a one stage clutch meaning when you press the clutch in to change gears the PTO stops. Deere ruined that tractor.

A lot of tractors will do that. What’s the problem? You could always get a HST model.

 

[jeff9366]

Ventrac 4500Y Dimensions​

2012 - 4500 Series Groundskeeping tractor

Variants
4500K	air-cooled gas
4500P	liquid-cooled gas
4500Y	Kubota diesel
4500Z	Kubota gas/LP

Ventrac 4500Y Engine
Kubota 0.9L 3-cyl diesel
Fuel tank	6 gal 22.7 L

Ventrac 4500Y Transmission

hydrostatic

Ventrac 4500Y Power
Engine	25 hp 18.6 kW

Ventrac 4500Y Tires
Ag front	21x11-8
Ag rear	21x11-8
Lawn/turf front	22x12-8
Lawn/turf rear	22x12-8

Dimensions
Wheelbase	45 inches 114 cm
Length	81.5 inches 207 cm
Width	48.5 inches 123 cm
Height (ROPS)	68 inches 172 cm
	54 inches (folded) 137 cm
Weight	1655 lbs* 750 kg
	1750 lbs* 793 kg
Ground clearance	5 inches 12 cm

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

The manufactures have created so many models and model variants that when you start comparing you go down a rabbit hole that you can almost never get out of.

Count your blessings. Farmers in Cuba do not have the choices making your research difficult.

If you cease thinking in terms of SIZE and start thinking in terms of WEIGHT your research will be more productive.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor weight is more important identifying compact tractor capability than tractor horsepower.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors.

Compact tractors of the weight of Ford 3000, 3,700 pounds bare tractor, are the mid-weights in the compact tractor category, a high volume segment. Every manufacturer produces at least a economy and a deluxe model ( two models ) in this category. Deere offers four models in this category.

Then there is the issue of not being offered the option of a front mount PTO.

Kubota's 3,700 pound to 4,000 pound bare weight deluxe tractors, the Kubota 'Grand L' models, offer an optional front PTO, most often used to power front snow blowers and front brooms in the USA. As you should expect, ordering a second drive line for a compact tractor is an expensive option.

----- 0 -----​

Other brands? Models to look at or avoid? Buy new or used?

The design of the Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939 -- 82 years in 2021.

The Three Point Hitch tractor design is generic.

Kubota and Deere have most of the market through 6,000 pound bare weight tractors. But this Kubota/Deere domination is regional.

Some will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor. I found they were either distant from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there.

The up and coming compact tractor brands are Korean: Kioti, LS and Branson. There are other Korean brands. You have to critically assess dealer stability while shopping minor brands. Speaking only as an observer, not an industry insider, LS, Kioti and Branson are established in California, a huge consumer market with a major port of entry in Long Beach and in the fast population growth states touching the Gulf of Mexico, which includes Alabama.

I finally had to just set a budget and then find the specs that got closest to what I want and need.

Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices. Kubota is the gold standard in the compact tractor category. Deere dominates in 'Big Ag' tractors.

Jeff your timing of this reply about WEIGHT could not have been more on point. I finally realized tonight why you have been harping on this so much. What I figured out is weight is what defines the class of tractor you're looking at as well as it's capabilities. I kept looking at horsepower and never bothered with weight as I posted in another thread that you were talking about this because weight was never a factor for me. But looking back in hindsight the horsepower always follows the weight. It finally clicked into place for me when I was looking at the specs on the Toro Groundsmaster 3300 and took notice of the weight and horsepower which was almost identical to the Kubota LX series and the Deere 3 series. I agree that you can't really fully understand tractors until you understand the weight aspect. It is probably the most misunderstood aspect and most neglected factor in the tractor world.

But this Kubota/Deere domination is regional.
What do you mean? Please explain.