Can rear ballast be dangerous?

/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #21  
First, I really appreciate all the advice. Thank you all. I guess the question now is how much ballast to have. I have researched this without clear answers but what I learned is that some is better than having none, the owners manuals no longer give that info for many manufacturers of tractors, and some people say to use a weight equal to your maximum front loader capacity.
I guess I could get heavier weights for the 3PH bracket, but lifting these weights is getting hard. Isn't the tractor supposed to keep me from manual work? The forks on my new pallet fork practically killed me. Before I ordered it, I read the reviews and people said the forks are removable, but "kind of heavy". REALLY??? 85 pounds each is more than I care to move around manually these days.
My slopes are probably gradual by most standards. My yard is poorly landscaped and there are lots of dips and rises, that all add a little "thrill" to the tractor ride. Maybe 40 degrees for about 30 feet is as severe as it gets. I did learn the 4WD rule for going down hills the hard way. Luckily I stayed pointed in the right direction, and upright. Just a little older (and maybe wiser).
@oosik: There must be some good fishing in those waters?
@Thomas: Yep. Lebanon. Actually I'm in Etna, but nobody has ever heard of that unless they are local. It's been a tricky adjustment as I always lived near the ocean. Been here 16 years and still really miss the ocean.

you don't need to be lifting any weights to put on the 3pt. Just buy or build a ballast box or ballast barrel and hook it up like any other 3pt implement. You can use a 55 gallon or smaller in your case barrel. You can use the top unused space for storage of other things. I use the top of mine for storage of log-chains. Shoot for about 500-600 lbs for you tractor. You can build your ballast box for certainly less than $100. Start with buying a drawbar at tractor supply and integrate that into your plan, filling the box with concrete or junk iron if you want than concrete over the top. Include some 2 inch PVC tubes upright to hold handle tools, Many will include a 2 inch square receiver hitch on the back integrated and tied into your drawbar inside your concrete mix. The end result is you have a nice rear weight, with the utility of storage on top and handle tool storage and a hitch receiver if you need to install a ball. Put some hooks on the outside so you can hang a couple of 5 gallon buckets on the outside. If you cut a lot of wood, you might want to incorporate a plastic scabbard for a chainsaw too. Use your imagination and/or do a search for ballast boxes and you will find hundreds of them with pictures on this site. Think it thru, look at what others have done, make a plan, and stop lifting and taking off and on weights.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #22  
The correct answer is ... maybe. It's all about the incline. When I mow my steepest hill, I don't want any extra weight behind me. I keep the loader on and keep it as low and forward as possible. Even then, I get concerned about the front getting light. Your slope may not be as steep as mine though. I have all four tires loaded to keep as much weight on the ground as I can. The loading doesn't add a lot of weight to the small fronts, but every little bit helps .

^This.
Physics says (do people even believe in science anymore?) that weight behind the axle makes front end lighter, so does an incline. Also note that rear weight gives rear tires more traction to dig in and rotate (flip) tractor around rear axle instead of spin. Tires and soil conditions make a difference too.

Using 4wd and watching when front tires get “loose” is one indicator.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #23  
Deepdrop.
"@Thomas: Yep. Lebanon. Actually I'm in Etna, but nobody has ever heard of that unless they are local. It's been a tricky adjustment as I always lived near the ocean. Been here 16 years and still really miss the ocean.
-------------------------
I grow up in Etna now live on Blueberry Hill Lebanon.
If you live on the Steven Road old joke is all animals legs are shorter on one side than side because of terrain...one thing for sure area you live in you'll always have good crops of rocks.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #25  
Have a SCUT, and its a "lightweight".... IF going to do heavy FEL work yes the 500-600 lb. ballast goes on QH..... IF no real FEL work ballast is off, did notice one time on awkward side hill turn (I know bad thing) front steering was a little "light" with empty FEL and ballast on..... ITs pretty much a judgement call on what work you are doing with FEL or just need more traction to drag something... At least in my mind (but that is a confusing place) .... Never subscribed to the loaded tire theory. but may suggest it...

The two pic below is why I decided to make ballast box, and it was fabricated by only materials I had in scrap bin pulse about 9 bags of sackcrete......

20190513_134020.jpg

20190513_134501.jpg

By the way "runs like a dead deer" weighs in at 520 pounds by JD manual....

Dale
 
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/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #26  
First, I really appreciate all the advice. Thank you all. I guess the question now is how much ballast to have. I have researched this without clear answers but what I learned is that some is better than having none, the owners manuals no longer give that info for many manufacturers of tractors, and some people say to use a weight equal to your maximum front loader capacity.
I guess I could get heavier weights for the 3PH bracket, but lifting these weights is getting hard. Isn't the tractor supposed to keep me from manual work? The forks on my new pallet fork practically killed me. Before I ordered it, I read the reviews and people said the forks are removable, but "kind of heavy". REALLY??? 85 pounds each is more than I care to move around manually these days.
My slopes are probably gradual by most standards. My yard is poorly landscaped and there are lots of dips and rises, that all add a little "thrill" to the tractor ride. Maybe 40 degrees for about 30 feet is as severe as it gets. I did learn the 4WD rule for going down hills the hard way. Luckily I stayed pointed in the right direction, and upright. Just a little older (and maybe wiser).
@oosik: There must be some good fishing in those waters?
@Thomas: Yep. Lebanon. Actually I'm in Etna, but nobody has ever heard of that unless they are local. It's been a tricky adjustment as I always lived near the ocean. Been here 16 years and still really miss the ocean.

This is what my manual says for my SCUT.... Might be a formula to go by if you can work with your numbers....


DocScan (2).jpg

Dale
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous?
  • Thread Starter
#27  
I've been searching the forums and it seems there are quite a few discussions about determining proper ballast, and they never seem to find an answer. I guess I'll keep reading and learning, but I do need more weight than I have.
I think my original question is answered, that if I'm going up a steep hill with no weight on the loader, the rear weights might put me at risk for backwards rollover. I would take them off in that situation. Otherwise, I'll leave them on all the time.
Thanks again to everybody for helping a new tractor owner.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #28  
I’ve got a hook on the back of my box blade. Sometimes if I’m pulling something too heavy especially with a downward angle on the chain it will lift the front wheels up. But a backflip can’t happen. The front wheels can lift maybe 2’ before the blade hits the ground. Your tractor is just a tad smaller than my L3800. I find loaded tires and my box blade that’s probably 500 pounds a little lacking for ballast but it’s enough to get by. I bushhog all the time without a loader in. Even without the loaded for front weight the front end still has enough weight on it.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #29  
Have a SCUT, and its a "lightweight".... IF going to do heavy FEL work yes the 500-600 lb. ballast goes on QH..... IF no real FEL work ballast is off, did notice one time on awkward side hill turn (I know bad thing) front steering was a little "light" with empty FEL and ballast on..... ITs pretty much a judgement call on what work you are doing with FEL or just need more traction to drag something... At least in my mind (but that is a confusing place) .... Never subscribed to the loaded tire theory. but may suggest it...

The two pic below is why I decided to make ballast box, and it was fabricated by only materials I had in scrap bin pulse about 9 bags of sackcrete......

View attachment 671919

View attachment 671920

By the way "runs like a dead deer" weighs in at 520 pounds by JD manual....

Dale

Some of you might be wondering how he is able to pick up that JD lawn mower without it falling out of the bucket. I suspect since that JD has a steel tube front "bumper" that just so happens to fit and wedge under the upper lip of the bucket on the little Massey, that this allows the JD to stay "stuck in the bucket" as he raises it off of the ground. The poster can confirm or deny this, but it makes for a neat photo. :)
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #30  
My Op Manual - RE: rear ballast. Paraphrasing here - "Be sure to use adequate rear ballast when lifting loads with the FEL".

JMHO - LITIGATION is the reason there are no definite recommendations or formulas in the Op Manual.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #31  
I've been searching the forums and it seems there are quite a few discussions about determining proper ballast, and they never seem to find an answer. I guess I'll keep reading and learning, but I do need more weight than I have.
I think my original question is answered, that if I'm going up a steep hill with no weight on the loader, the rear weights might put me at risk for backwards rollover. I would take them off in that situation. Otherwise, I'll leave them on all the time.
Thanks again to everybody for helping a new tractor owner.

You are going to work extremely hard to do that.... Only time I have heard of something like that is a person connected a chain or something really high on tractor and cause tractor to stop forward motion and rear wheel keep going foward when tractor body stop going forward... Actually if rear weight is anchored correctly it may act as a preventative as like wheelie bars on drag car....


Backflip With Tractor - YouTube

If you will note he worked pretty hard to make it happen.... You probably stand more of a chance to flip it over sideways....

Dale
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #32  
I’ve got a hook on the back of my box blade. Sometimes if I’m pulling something too heavy especially with a downward angle on the chain it will lift the front wheels up. But a backflip can’t happen. The front wheels can lift maybe 2’ before the blade hits the ground. Your tractor is just a tad smaller than my L3800. I find loaded tires and my box blade that’s probably 500 pounds a little lacking for ballast but it’s enough to get by. I bushhog all the time without a loader in. Even without the loaded for front weight the front end still has enough weight on it.

I think backflip could still happen. If tires dig in and top link is still pulling tractor backwards, and 3 point hitch has no down force so it won’t act like wheelie bars, there’s nothing stopping tractor from flipping over.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #33  
My Op Manual - RE: rear ballast. Paraphrasing here - "Be sure to use adequate rear ballast when lifting loads with the FEL".

JMHO - LITIGATION is the reason there are no definite recommendations or formulas in the Op Manual.

Also, rear ballast isn’t just a function of weight, it’s also a function of distance from the fulcrum (the rear axle). Maybe they could list ballast in foot-pounds, but that would get too complicated for most consumers.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #34  
I think backflip could still happen. If tires dig in and top link is still pulling tractor backwards, and 3 point hitch has no down force so it won’t act like wheelie bars, there’s nothing stopping tractor from flipping over.

The tractor won't flip right over because the three point hitch arms stop at the fully raised position. The front wheels will be a good ways in the air though.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #35  
I think backflip could still happen. If tires dig in and top link is still pulling tractor backwards, and 3 point hitch has no down force so it won稚 act like wheelie bars, there痴 nothing stopping tractor from flipping over.

I started uphill on an old piece of junk rider mower I was testing out to see if I could use it for a runabout. The front end proved to be way too light and it started to nose up, front wheels off the ground. Instead of going over backwards ( which might have kept me from being here now ), it started to go left and pivoted around enough that I was able to steer it back down hill. Somehow it didn't go over sideways either. I see that as a greater possibly in what we're talking about, that once the front end started to lift, it would lean to either side and tilt or roll sideways.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #36  
I started uphill on an old piece of junk rider mower I was testing out to see if I could use it for a runabout. The front end proved to be way too light and it started to nose up, front wheels off the ground. Instead of going over backwards ( which might have kept me from being here now ), it started to go left and pivoted around enough that I was able to steer it back down hill. Somehow it didn't go over sideways either. I see that as a greater possibly in what we're talking about, that once the front end started to lift, it would lean to either side and tilt or roll sideways.

Understandable ... I did youtube search found 9 or so back flips where garden tractor used as hill climbers.... 1 as real tractor (see video else where) and 20 acrobatic back flips of tractor tires by a human..... DUH....

We all know from other discussions about pulling from a drawbar mounted to high above axle that it can cause a back flip.... But its not a ballast weight...

Dale
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #37  
I don't fear a backflip from too much ballast. I'll most certainly freak out and do something stupid which will put the tractor sideways on the incline before it goes over backwards. Then it'll barrel roll......

Twice I've tried to climb steep grades in the timber and chickened out. Very difficult to get backed down the incline without doing something stupid.....
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #38  
We had one on the farm stand a IH 1586 on it's end while cultivating with a 8 row 3pt mounted cultivator. He was in the middle of the field on flat land. Still to this day do not know how but that was his last day on the farm. Dad let him go on that one. :laughing:

You just never know what someone else is capable of doing.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #39  
Thanks for the reassurance.
The manual mentions the need for using appropriate ballast but doesn't give any numbers. Not real helpful.
Maybe I'll add some wheel weights also.

I think the owners manual for the FEL will give a break down on required ballast. Between the manual for the loader and the one for the tractor my tractor requirements are spelled out fairly well.
 
/ Can rear ballast be dangerous? #40  
I've been searching the forums and it seems there are quite a few discussions about determining proper ballast, and they never seem to find an answer. I guess I'll keep reading and learning, but I do need more weight than I have.
I think my original question is answered, that if I'm going up a steep hill with no weight on the loader, the rear weights might put me at risk for backwards rollover. I would take them off in that situation. Otherwise, I'll leave them on all the time.
Thanks again to everybody for helping a new tractor owner.

You need to know your wieght. Depending on how the machine is set up you travel with the heavy side pointing up no matter the direction your going.
 

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