Buying Advice Southern VT Newbie Advice

[Bullwinkle123]

Aging tractor virgin with a lot of need but no experience. Been living on a 180 parcel for 10 years, and I'm just getting too old to do things by hand. I'm also tired of paying other people to use their tractors for what are essentially routine maintenance chores, so here I am, asking these questions.

These are the things I _must_ do with the tractor:

1. Fill/grade the gravel driveway when it washes out. Guessing it's about 0.1 mile in length (with large turnout), reasonably level. Figuring on FEL and rear blade for this every-couple-of-years task. (You'd think this isn't worth spending on a tractor, but I've spent $11k on this in the last 10 years, and there's almost more to come).
2. Moving downed trees. A FE grappler seems like the bees knees if I can do a few saw cuts and grab piles of fallen small branches and 4-8 foot trunk pieces and move them to the brush/tree piles, if only so my aging back doesn't have to pick up most of the crap to put it in a cart. Or are these things really just fantasies and not so useful? The youtube videos sure make it look great.
3. Annual brush-hogging. **** saplings grow quickly. 5 acre field on a slope, not sure what degree of incline or how to measure. It has some steep-ish sections, but doesn't seem to place a burden on the people who've been dealing with it the last 10 years.
4. Haul brush & weeds and general yard or fallen tree detritus. When I get done with my weed whackers, chain saw, or whatever I'm cleaning up, there's just a lot of stuff to haul, and the nearest place to dump it is at the edge of 5-ish acres of field/yard, sometimes up-hill, which is a hike I'm tired of making with hand carts and aging muscle power.

Based on the above, if I'm thinking correctly, I would want FEL, blade, grappler, and large-ish cart (4x8? 3x6 or something seems small but maybe more practical for hauling my chainsaw and gas cans in the forest).

The following things would be _nice_, but are secondary for one reason or another.

• Haul logs in from the forest for subsequent cutting/splitting for a wood gasification boiler. I don't have the boiler (won't unless I get a tractor), and I don't really want to invest in a log arch. It's a wishlist situation now. Hauling large log lengths would probably halve the lifting work I need to do. (Younger days I'd move logs with a log arch I built - but my arch isn't ready for a tractor or larger logs).
• Till field plots for gardening. Unfortunately I'd also need to break hard ground that hasn't been farmed in a long time, so ... two attachments. Probably not worth the cost for me.
• Mow: I probably have about 1.5 acres of lawn but I'm not planning on using the tractor for mowing. Seems like a real tractor is going to be too heavy, un-maneuverable, and mashing my grass mercilessly. I would rather the tractor was fit for the primary purposes. Between that and all the stone walls a regular mower is probably better, though expensive (most of the guys who mow my yard have some expensive zero turn radius mower).
• Snow blow the driveway. Leary of this because I don't know how it'll work on my long gravel driveway, and whether tractors are any good for it. My 24" snowblower did great on a tiny paved driveway at my old house, but my VT driveway is a beast. Still, it sure would be nice to stop paying a guy to plow and occasionally bring in earth moving equipment because the plow can't move the snow far enough.
• Backhoe. The only times I'd want this is when I need to clean existing culverts, dig new ones, and maybe it would help me dig new holes for fruit trees. Worth it? Doesn't seem like it for initial planning.

In general, the driveway environment is a layer of gravel on top of schist. Dig down more than a couple of inches and you're hitting rock, and sometimes it's sticking up through the mid-point of the driveway. The fields and forest can be quite muddy, though hopefully I never have to be out there in mud season. Though with this climate change ... who knows. It's 59 degrees in January and my field is melted today, and the high winds put another tree down just this morning. I usually leave tree clearing (other than the driveway) for better weather.

I'm getting closer to retirement, and seeking a bit of mechanical muscle to help with the things I used to do by hand. My biggest concern about whether getting a tractor is a bad idea is that I had to have back surgery last year (which automatically pushed back my whole purchasing plans a year), and now I wonder if trying to twist to see behind me while, say, grading the driveway, would be too hard. Or are there some tractors with rotating seats that would make this easy? Don't see how, gotta look where you're driving too. Either way, I'm ambulatory and can flex, but my days of wrestling 300 lb. objects are forcibly behind me. I'm also concerned about whether I can even swap a FEL for a grapple on the front, or if the the parts require too much lifting for me to manage. Damned back.

All advice welcome, including "how to" buying advice. I've looked up various "new tractor" places in the Southern VT, NH, and western MA area. Buying used might be good, but I have no idea where to look for it (farming mags, forums, whatever). Of course the attachments I want are a big factor here. I'm guessing I also need a trailer for my truck to haul the tractor and attachments home and/or for service if I can't service it myself, so another expense. All I've got now is clueless wish lists, a bad back, and a sometimes functional checkbook. Maybe I need to find a guy getting rid of all his toys in a used package deal.

Thanks in advance for this request #3,012,998 on newbie tractor advice.

 

[Roadworthy]

You say you're on a 180 parcel. Is that 180 acres? It does not appear you farm it. How many acres do you actually mow? Any compact or subcompact tractor will perform most of the functions you want. I have no idea how a grapple connects or works but most implements are designed with minimal lifting in mind. You can get a front loader with quick disconnects to make changing things easy. You're probably right, though, if you can find some guy selling his "toys" and they're in good condition you're golden. With newer tractors over 25 horsepower the new ones must meet Tier IV emission requirements. I specifically purchased my tractor to avoid that hassle.

 

[fruitcakesa]

Hi Bullwinkle,
I am S. VT too and basking in the heat, mud season in full swing on my hill, barely got home:thumbdown: No tractor work, can't wait till it freezes back up.
I have 50 acres that is mostly forested and steep and rough in a lot of it.
With no open fields, I don't farm or do any Ag work but I do a lot of snow plowing, some logging, earthmoving, general tractor lifting and assistance work.
With 180 acres and the jobs you envision doing, I would be looking at 50 hp minimum and if in the cards 60 hp and up.
The M series machines are heavier with bigger frames and they make snow removal easy with a PA snowplow and hauling log loads.
I upgraded from an L 4630 to the M6040 and would never go back as it is an all around more useful machine for my needs.
I bought the pre-Tier IV M locally after lucking out on an online ad. It is a crapshoot.
I don't leave my land so no truck or trailer. Minimal equipment: All SSQA, Bucket, Fork/grapple, snowplow, box blade, ballast box. Thinking about a logging winch.

 

[Carl_NH]

Hello Bullwinkle and welcome to TBN!

Just to confirm you have a 500' driveway +- and you want to maintain it sounds like 10-20 of the 180 acres?

I would agree with the others, 38-50 HP range, HST, QA bucket, Grapple, Bush hog/Brush hog, rear scraper blade for drive. Then for comfort get a cab - you wont regret it later on.

For attachments the QA bucket is pretty easy, and depending on your driveway, a front QA snow blade with a rear scraper blade should be fine. If you think you need a Snowblower you can decide that later.

Most all of the brands are good and Kioti and Kubota dealers have been around a while and look around at your dealers to figure out the size and model, then check out Craigslist for your area in VT and Western Ma, eastern NY region. I looked briefly and there are some nice machines with 200-400 hours available.

I don't think a trailer to transport the tractor is needed- most dealers pickup/deliver. IF you buy used, then you will need someone to transport and service it unless you plan to do this yourself?

Given your statements about you back etc, I would probably find a low hour used deal with implements or buy a new machine with Grapple, and FEL, then buy used back blade, brush hog, and accessories. As far as hauling stuff you can make a platform for the 3PT Hitch or do what many have done here is mount chainsaw brackets, and gas can holder later on - there's lots of ideas on TBN to assist.

Enjoy the search!

 

[stephenh]

I have a 500 ft driveway to maintain and plow snow from. I, too, grew tired of hiring someone to come in a grade it every year or so, and I simply lived with the snow until I got stuck at home a few times.

I am now on my third tractor, all Kubotas. Started with 25 Hp., went to 32 Hp., and just recently went to 47 Hp. I predict that's it, no more needed. I do haul some trees, move loose materials with the bucket, so on.

In your case, I'd suggest you consider hiring someone to do that first tilling in the hardened field. Then, you can maintain it with a smaller tractor and tiller. Unless you are hauling out green, old-growth monster tree trunks, don't need a huge machine unless trying to haul a stack of a half-dozen, then you need a bigger machine.

Reason for my upgrades was snow. I don't have a blower attachment, just use a rear blade. Still we had a few really big snows [25 to 60 inches] which are unusual but do happen. My smaller tractors just eventually got bogged down, snow coming up over the hood, etc. I needed a bit more oomph.

So, probably 30-40 Hp will be fine. You'll find a lot of other things to do with it, saving your back too. I have a set of clamp-on forks for the bucket and use them if I need to unload a large item from the pickup or move around stuff on a pallet, etc.

I'm retired, too, watching my back. That's another reason why I upgraded to a more powerful machine. I kept finding unexpected uses for the tractor. I even load up the bucket to haul tools, heavy items around the property. Burn a tiny bit of diesel, save my body. Last summer, needed to unload and move a truckload of five-gal buckets of water. Several trips in the tractor, no sweat.

 

[arrow]

A wood gasification boiler is gonna be your needy child. I used to own 100 acres and found skidding more than a quarter of a mile out, got to be tiresome real quick. With a skidder, no problem. Compact tractor, don't wanna. In your case, i would concur with that 36-50 hp tractor. I wouldn't bother with an arch but I would want some type of forwarding trailer if going longer distances. You're gonna need 6-10 cords to heat your place (not knowing how many sq feet). I'd wanna take at least a cord or two out of the woods at any one turn (cycle) so you're gonna need a 4-5000 lb tractor. All the other stuff you want do is ancillary to you getting firewood out so base the tractor on logging. All the other stuff will follow.

Was in Ludlow VT. last week and some of that terrain is pretty hilly. So that may include a logging winch if that also describes your lay of the land.

 

[fruitcakesa]

A wood gasification boiler is gonna be your needy child. I used to own 100 acres and found skidding more than a quarter of a mile out, got to be tiresome real quick. With a skidder, no problem. Compact tractor, don't wanna. In your case, i would concur with that 36-50 hp tractor. I wouldn't bother with an arch but I would want some type of forwarding trailer if going longer distances. You're gonna need 6-10 cords to heat your place (not knowing how many sq feet). I'd wanna take at least a cord or two out of the woods at any one turn (cycle) so you're gonna need a 4-5000 lb tractor. All the other stuff you want do is ancillary to you getting firewood out so base the tractor on logging. All the other stuff will follow.

Was in Ludlow VT. last week and some of that terrain is pretty hilly. So that may include a logging winch if that also describes your lay of the land.

I agree with your tractor recommendation
I have heated with wood for 50 years and with a Tarm gasifier for the last 15.
It does need to be fed [like any heat producing device] but it is way more efficient than my woodstoves of yore.
I am just down the road from Ludlow and that winch would help.

 

[arrow]

I agree with your tractor recommendation
.
I am just down the road from Ludlow and that winch would help.

I like this one as a winch: Norwood Log Skidding Arches & Winches ? SkidWinch, SkidMate, SkidLite & LogHog ? For ATVs & tractors - YouTube

The way to log big property for the home owner when confronted with longer cycles, is with a trailer which would act as a mini forwarder. Put forks or a grapple on your fel and dump stems onto the trailer. I'd get a narrow 10 or 12' dump trailer and bring it with me into the wood attached to the tractor. I'd get all of my firewood in with it in 2 or 3 days. Between the tractor, implements, trailer and gasifier, you're looking at 50-60K but you'll have a lot of fun on this short time we have here on earth.

I would like to pm you with a couple questions on your gasifier if you don't mind.

 

[fruitcakesa]

I like this one as a winch: Norwood Log Skidding Arches & Winches ? SkidWinch, SkidMate, SkidLite & LogHog ? For ATVs & tractors - YouTube

The way to log big property for the home owner when confronted with longer cycles, is with a trailer which would act as a mini forwarder. Put forks or a grapple on your fel and dump stems onto the trailer. I'd get a narrow 10 or 12' dump trailer and bring it with me into the wood attached to the tractor. I'd get all of my firewood in with it in 2 or 3 days. Between the tractor, implements, trailer and gasifier, you're looking at 50-60K but you'll have a lot of fun on this short time we have here on earth.

I would like to pm you with a couple questions on your gasifier if you don't mind.

No problem, ask away.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

You say you're on a 180 parcel. Is that 180 acres? It does not appear you farm it. How many acres do you actually mow? Any compact or subcompact tractor will perform most of the functions you want. I have no idea how a grapple connects or works but most implements are designed with minimal lifting in mind. You can get a front loader with quick disconnects to make changing things easy. You're probably right, though, if you can find some guy selling his "toys" and they're in good condition you're golden. With newer tractors over 25 horsepower the new ones must meet Tier IV emission requirements. I specifically purchased my tractor to avoid that hassle.

Most of the acreage is forest that I only harvest for occasional wood and to keep trails clear. The forest actually has a management plan but I leave it to professionals for the big cutting operations.
So what I mostly need to take care of is brush hogging a 5 acre field, maintaining a long driveway, and routine cleanup of the yard/field/trails as trees are constantly falling (even around the edge of the field). Then it's just a matter of whether advice says any of my wishlist items are practical, and whether I'm too old to start tractoring with my bad back, though I'm hoping machines are a solution, not a problem, in this regard.

 

[shovelmike]

Welcome to TBN, Bullwinkle.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

The way to log big property for the home owner when confronted with longer cycles, is with a trailer which would act as a mini forwarder. Put forks or a grapple on your fel and dump stems onto the trailer. I'd get a narrow 10 or 12' dump trailer and bring it with me into the wood attached to the tractor. I'd get all of my firewood in with it in 2 or 3 days. Between the tractor, implements, trailer and gasifier, you're looking at 50-60K but you'll have a lot of fun on this short time we have here on earth.

I would like to pm you with a couple questions on your gasifier if you don't mind.

Good stuff. The boiler is really a wishlist item, I'm not sure I'm ready to let it drive the purchase of the tractor, though the advice I'm hearing about sizing the tractor to the logging job is definitely being heard.

My boiler need is not for a whole house, or even a required regular heating supply. It's a ... quality of life ... item, therefore wishlist. My plumber has stopped installing and servicing these because the brand he was using was so unreliable in the lifetime of the boiler. Just finding a reliable brand of boiler sounds like it will be a challenge in and of itself but I have more work to do researching this, and I won't do it at all if I don't have the tractor for it, though I won't be out gathering 10+ cords a year for it, well, I don't anticipate that anyway. Anyway, assuming I'm getting the cart anyway for various cleanups, the cart+grapple thing sounds good to me, and fills muiltiple needs.

 

[arrow]

Good stuff. The boiler is really a wishlist item, I'm not sure I'm ready to let it drive the purchase of the tractor, though the advice I'm hearing about sizing the tractor to the logging job is definitely being heard.

My boiler need is not for a whole house, or even a required regular heating supply. It's a ... quality of life ... item, therefore wishlist. My plumber has stopped installing and servicing these because the brand he was using was so unreliable in the lifetime of the boiler. Just finding a reliable brand of boiler sounds like it will be a challenge in and of itself but I have more work to do researching this, and I won't do it at all if I don't have the tractor for it, though I won't be out gathering 10+ cords a year for it, well, I don't anticipate that anyway. Anyway, assuming I'm getting the cart anyway for various cleanups, the cart+grapple thing sounds good to me, and fills muiltiple needs.

My advice is based on my experience logging several ways. My tractor does basically two things: Plows snow and does logging. I skid all of my wood in and since I no longer own the hundred acres, I don't go beyond that 1/4 mile mark. I have 3 fused discs and ruptured one of them just this past spring. I initially hurt my back playing HS foot ball. Then getting into a logging career just escalated things back wise, to a point where it actually began strengthening my back as the years went by. Currently I need the Predator to come by and rip out this vertebrae and he give me one of his trophy ones. He'd just throw mine away because it is no trophy so he might be a bit reticent with this negotiation.

At any rate, you live on a large enough parcel to be able to do all your heating with wood. You need a tractor for several reasons but still base it on logging as that will be its toughest job.

I'm afraid a "cart" just isn't gonna do it for ya as you can get to a "ton" of wood very quickly. This one pictured with the tractor weighed 1700 lbs and would have collapsed most "carts" if I had cut it to size to fit on one. I would want as strong enough trailer to take this one, along with some of his brothers and sisters if traveling deep into the wood. You'll use a dump trailer a lot on your property if you got one anyway.

As far as wood boilers, there are a lot of them currently on the market. Tarm, Froeling (which I believe what Tarms are called now) Wood Gun, etc. Unfortunately, they have thrown a lot of computerized electronics into the works so finding a simple one might be a chore even if they do exist.
Heating with wood is a way of life for me and my tractor is an essential piece of that equation. You don't need to get serious about it all but I'd guess if it were simply a matter of "occasional" wood burning, then I might just get a wood stove as opposed to a boiler.
I should have gotten a wood "boiler" a long time ago.

 

[nards444]

So here is an idea and maybe run the numbers get a quote and think hard about it. Pave your driveway. I know it all comes down to cost cost, but you can get it done from around a little less than $2 a sq ft to about $4 a sq ft depending on how much site work, grade of material etc. I just paved around 500ft and it cost me around 12k after i put the rock down. That driveway will last 10 years after 10 years it will probably last longer if I am willing to deal with cracks and dips, even then I could just top coat it for a fraction of the cost of 12k. I know i know still cost. Im telling you I know people around here who have more time and money into a gravel driveway then they would just paving it. Plus with paving its easier to plow, keeps vehicles cleaner and not as much dirt near and and in the house.

 

[nards444]

My advice is based on my experience logging several ways. My tractor does basically two things: Plows snow and does logging. I skid all of my wood in and since I no longer own the hundred acres, I don't go beyond that 1/4 mile mark. I have 3 fused discs and ruptured one of them just this past spring. I initially hurt my back playing HS foot ball. Then getting into a logging career just escalated things back wise, to a point where it actually began strengthening my back as the years went by. Currently I need the Predator to come by and rip out this vertebrae and he give me one of his trophy ones. He'd just throw mine away because it is no trophy so he might be a bit reticent with this negotiation.

At any rate, you live on a large enough parcel to be able to do all your heating with wood. You need a tractor for several reasons but still base it on logging as that will be its toughest job.

I'm afraid a "cart" just isn't gonna do it for ya as you can get to a "ton" of wood very quickly. This one pictured with the tractor weighed 1700 lbs and would have collapsed most "carts" if I had cut it to size to fit on one. I would want as strong enough trailer to take this one, along with some of his brothers and sisters if traveling deep into the wood. You'll use a dump trailer a lot on your property if you got one anyway.

As far as wood boilers, there are a lot of them currently on the market. Tarm, Froeling (which I believe what Tarms are called now) Wood Gun, etc. Unfortunately, they have thrown a lot of computerized electronics into the works so finding a simple one might be a chore even if they do exist.
Heating with wood is a way of life for me and my tractor is an essential piece of that equation. You don't need to get serious about it all but I'd guess if it were simply a matter of "occasional" wood burning, then I might just get a wood stove as opposed to a boiler.
I should have gotten a wood "boiler" a long time ago.

Yeah occasional wood burning a wood burner is probably smarter. But I will say this about wood boilers. My furnace went out and had somebody try and sell me wood boiler. Cost to install was about 15k and thats pretty standard around here. Cost to replace current furnace was 3500. Yes i will always pay for propane about 1000 or so a year thats also cooking as well. But thinking about this wood boiler if the wood isnt free the money never works out really. If the wood is free, I still had to factor the cost of equipment to harvest wood, and money for gas, oil, and break fix maint. Laying it all out id have to burn wood forever to break even on the investment around here. and thats not factoring in my time cutting, stacking, and feeding the fire, my time is worth something. Plus the fact in -10 weather I would have to walk outside to feed the thing.

Listen I get it for some people location demands what they have, and every situation is different, and some people just like to burn wood. Just when I ran numbers it was a decade at its best of breaking even on the purchase, now if I had invested in a large tractor for the purpose etc, i would probably never break even. Only reason I point this out is sometimes people get this illusion on something like, oh wow I can burn wood its free but dont think about the legacy costs

 

[dodge man]

I have a fireplace that will heat my house unless its really cold, but I use it just for "fun". I already need a tractor and a chainsaw so the only real cost was the splitter. If I was older and had a back that was a problem I'd skip the wood boiler idea all together.

A grapple? I'd love to have one but they are expensive. Forks can take their place, just not as well. For my 3 acres, which is about 1 acres of trees/brush, I just toss the branches into the woods and let them rot.

 

[arrow]

i would probably never break even. Only reason I point this out is sometimes people get this illusion on something like, oh wow I can burn wood its free but dont think about the legacy costs

You can certainly look at it as an accountant would. As you allude, for me, there is a value to it that cannot be measured with money. I simply "belong" in the woods more so than any other place.

. For me, "wood" was primary and the tractor secondary to what I needed to do if it were not logging.

Reading more of Bullwinkles posts, I've changed my mind for him as far as tractor size. I first recommended that 4000-5000 lb machine. A machine my size ( 2500 lbs bare) would do him well. He'll use it for a myriad of chores w/o breaking the bank.

This forum has always provided answers for me even if no one had the "spot on" advice. A series of posts on this forum has helped me formulate my "end" idea by reading the myriad of opinion and taking things into account as I sift through the contributions. I hope it works for everyone this way as well. There comes a point when too much "detail" becomes a detriment to one's own "feel" for the need. Enlightenment comes with perusal.

 

[redman135]

Hello bullwinkle123, 1) re aging, if you can afford it go for a cab with a/c and heat. Some members have bought open station tractors then several years later have to sell a perfectly good tractor to get a cab model as the cold/heat can no longer but tolerated.
2) google "reversable tractor" and ventrac
3)gooogle "multi coupler" this little device makes coupling hydraulic hoses a breeze, also works under preassure.
4) cat1 (catagory 1) or cat2 (catagory 2) refers to the ball size at the end of the rear lift arms. At about the 60hp mark is the size change over. Cat 2 attatchments are heavier and cost more.

Lastly, at this stage you are getting ideas to figure out what questions you need to ask.

good luck

 

[nards444]

You can certainly look at it as an accountant would. As you allude, for me, there is a value to it that cannot be measured with money. I simply "belong" in the woods more so than any other place.

. For me, "wood" was primary and the tractor secondary to what I needed to do if it were not logging.

Reading more of Bullwinkles posts, I've changed my mind for him as far as tractor size. I first recommended that 4000-5000 lb machine. A machine my size ( 2500 lbs bare) would do him well. He'll use it for a myriad of chores w/o breaking the bank.

This forum has always provided answers for me even if no one had the "spot on" advice. A series of posts on this forum has helped me formulate my "end" idea by reading the myriad of opinion and taking things into account as I sift through the contributions. I hope it works for everyone this way as well. There comes a point when too much "detail" becomes a detriment to one's own "feel" for the need. Enlightenment comes with perusal.

Thank you. And dont take it the wrong way, like I said some people would burn wood if it cost them 3 times more, its a hobby I get that. My only point was is some or even a lot of folks fail to see the whole picture. I had friends raise chickens in the name of saving money. They tried to talk us into it. We sat down and said ok what was your cost, building a coop, to buy chickens, feed, medicine, and then effort. Worked out that the chicken was twice the money then in the store and 3 times the effort to put that same piece of meat on the table. Then the argument turned into we just like to eat what we make or raise, which again Im fine with that, but often times the living off the land just inst cheaper. My mentality is for basic life needs, maintaining property is the accountant view, I wouldnt say cheap but i try to accomplish the basic task of food, water, shelter the most effective and least time consuming way, as I have better things to do and prefer my money goes elsewhere. I can appreciate people that enjoy living off the land to speak.

 

[fruitcakesa]

Thank you. And dont take it the wrong way, like I said some people would burn wood if it cost them 3 times more, its a hobby I get that. My only point was is some or even a lot of folks fail to see the whole picture. I had friends raise chickens in the name of saving money. They tried to talk us into it. We sat down and said ok what was your cost, building a coop, to buy chickens, feed, medicine, and then effort. Worked out that the chicken was twice the money then in the store and 3 times the effort to put that same piece of meat on the table. Then the argument turned into we just like to eat what we make or raise, which again Im fine with that, but often times the living off the land just inst cheaper. My mentality is for basic life needs, maintaining property is the accountant view, I wouldnt say cheap but i try to accomplish the basic task of food, water, shelter the most effective and least time consuming way, as I have better things to do and prefer my money goes elsewhere. I can appreciate people that enjoy living off the land to speak.

One definitely needs to look at the entire "lifetime cost" of a choice but to paraphrase you, to each his own.
I am one who likes to work in the woods and reap what it has to offer for me and my family.
Managing a 50 acre woodland requires regular activity and it is financially worthwhile beyond the "free" wood I harvest.
In Vermont we get a property tax break for proper forest management.
I am not a church going person but spending time in the woods provides a spiritual connection for me.
Plus I like the challenge of figuring out how to access rugged portions of my land, falling uncooperative trees and getting them back to my landing; it keeps me on my toes and truth to tell, wood gathering and processing is really the only real exercise I get ; I am not a gym rat!