Running Conduit for Future Electrical

[LukeDuke30]

We just finished our pole barn, and am in the middle of gravel prep for concrete. When our house was built, we had a 200 amp breaker installed for service to the barn. We have to move this panel to the back side of the garage or else I have to go over/under the main electrical, geo lines, water lines, gas lines etc.

In any case, my thoughts it right now while the back yard hasn't been seeded as of yet, I would dig the trench and put in 2.5'' conduit for now, and run the electrical lines later when I am ready.

Thoughts on this?

 

[mike48130]

Very difficult to pull that size wire. Just go buy URD wire. Direct burial. You need 2 hots and a N and ground since it is a sub panel. I just ran 4/0 4/0 4/0 2/0 URD for 150A service. You need to look at the length of run and the voltage loss calculations. I upped the wire size to not get too much V drop. And was very difficult to deal with in the short sections of conduit. Then you don't need conduit. The commercial guys have all sorts of equipment to pull those wires. I think you would need 3 conduit.

The cost of the conduit will be the same cost as the URD cable..

 

[CobyRupert]

What panel do you have to move to backside of garage? This sounds strange.
Isn't the 200A panel (feeder breaker) in your main house panel?
Is it a separate breaker fed from ahead of your main panel disconnect (from just downstream of your meter)? If so, you may not be able to relocate any great distance.
You still have to get power to (run a cable to) the backside of garage from the source. So what do you gain by relocation?

Back to your question: How long would the conduit run be? How many bends or 90 degree turns in the run? Will you run copper or aluminum cable?
The reason I ask is 200 amps needs at least 3/0 Awg (copper) or 250 kcmil (Alum), maybe bigger if length causes voltage drop.

Basically: Can you pull the size cable you need the distance required without a intermediate pull box, or some serious equipment?

 

[EddieWalker]

I have some 3 inch PVC buried under my driveway for future use that I may or may not ever use. I capped the ends to keep they clean and dry, and placed a piece of scarp metal over each end so I can find it with my metal detector if I forget where I buried them. They are 2 feet down with the piece of scrap being closer to six inches or so down. I did this about a dozen years ago and have not had a need yet to find them. I also don't know exactly where they are, but have a good idea where to start looking.

Since then, I have dug up my driveway 3 times to run power and water across my road where I did not bury any conduit. No matter what you plan for, there will always be surprises that you never imagined.

 

[mike48130]

So to add on to this, I also ran gas, water and conduit for low voltage stuff. You might want to think about your big picture and plan it all out.

 

[LukeDuke30]

What panel do you have to move to backside of garage? This sounds strange.
Isn't the 200A panel (feeder breaker) in your main house panel?
Is it a separate breaker fed from ahead of your main panel disconnect (from just downstream of your meter)? If so, you may not be able to relocate any great distance.
You still have to get power to (run a cable to) the backside of garage from the source. So what do you gain by relocation?

Back to your question: How long would the conduit run be? How many bends or 90 degree turns in the run? Will you run copper or aluminum cable?
The reason I ask is 200 amps needs at least 3/0 Awg (copper) or 250 kcmil (Alum), maybe bigger if length causes voltage drop.

Basically: Can you pull the size cable you need the distance required without a intermediate pull box, or some serious equipment?

It is in the main house panel, in the garage complete with a conduit drop on the outside. Problem is, for me to bury it would require crossing over/under every major connection into the house unless I move the power supply to the back of the garage which allows me to avoid all of the obstacles. I only have about 100ft to the location I want it in the barn from the back side of the garage.

 

[Ford850]

Why not run it from the current panel location to the back of the garage, in a conduit? Then out the back of the garage and down underground to the location 100' away. 100', and using sweeps instead of 90's, should be no issue pulling in conduit.

 

[RNeumann]

The only way to know the conduit size would be to know the amps going to the pole barn and the type of wire you want to use- copper or aluminum. Their are code requirements to size the conduit.

The pole barn will need 4 wires going to it and a ground rod at the pole barn.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Absolutely!

Lines to my Drive shed.

3" Superduct: Communications, Low Voltage, 110/220V, 600V 3 Phase
6", for pulled in 200 PSI 1" Air Line.

 

[CobyRupert]

It is in the main house panel, in the garage complete with a conduit drop on the outside. Problem is, for me to bury it would require crossing over/under every major connection into the house unless I move the power supply to the back of the garage which allows me to avoid all of the obstacles. I only have about 100ft to the location I want it in the barn from the back side of the garage.

Perhaps my confusion is one of terminology. I understand "it" (a 200A breaker) is in the main house panel? I would regard this panel to be "the power supply". What exactly would you move?

I don't think you would move your main panel.
"Moving" the breaker from the panel to the back of the garage does nothing. You would still need a (the) 200A breaker in the panel to feed this redundant and unnecessary breaker at the back of the garage.

As others have noted, you can have the conduit go underground at any location, it doesn't have to be at the main panel / breaker/ power supply.
Pulling through 90 degree sweeps will add a bit of friction in addition to the friction between a large cable and 100' of conduit.

 

[Industrial Toys]

STUPID THING! I now need to put in a new deeper water line to the house. So, not wanting to hand dig those conduits, and various other stuff, I thought of directional boring. Seems, they INSIST on uncovering any utilities they need to go underneith, using a truck vacuume. So what's the point in that? $8000 or so bucks!

 

[LukeDuke30]

Why not run it from the current panel location to the back of the garage, in a conduit? Then out the back of the garage and down underground to the location 100' away. 100', and using sweeps instead of 90's, should be no issue pulling in conduit.

This may end up being the pathway we take. We will see how it fits into code etc.

 

[mike48130]

STUPID THING! I now need to put in a new deeper water line to the house. So, not wanting to hand dig those conduits, and various other stuff, I thought of directional boring. Seems, they INSIST on uncovering any utilities they need to go underneith, using a truck vacuume. So what's the point in that? $8000 or so bucks!

When you directional bore, nothing is that accurate. Knowing the depth of the utilities and the borehead aren't accurate enough.

If you are jut crossing them, dig a hole on both side and use the old pressurized water pipe trick to bore thru. Works good until you hit a big rock. I bought a 3" auger for a drill that is 12" long, and bought a 12" extension so I can use a drill to bore 24". worked pretty good for the little bit I used it.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Thanks. I just know, that however hard you try, stuff ALWAYS gets, hit, snagged, or ripped out.

I wish I had the luxury of time to pick away at my water line project, doing a bit at a time. History has proven that nature has other ideas in store for me. You have to do it in one concerted effort.

 

[mike48130]

Thanks. I just know, that however hard you try, stuff ALWAYS gets, hit, snagged, or ripped out.

I wish I had the luxury of time to pick away at my water line project, doing a bit at a time. History has proven that nature has other ideas in store for me. You have to do it in one concerted effort.

View attachment 623372

Yep!! Doesn't help when you run into 2 abandoned septic tanks.

 

[CADplans]

I ran conduit all under the concrete before I poured the floor in my shed,

1) there is the conduit to bring in the power,
2) I have three conduits from the electrical panel location to three various locations in the shop, so overhead wiring can be minimized.
3a) I brought in a 2" conduit so that water could come into the location of a possible bathroom,
3b) I ran pipe for the necessary sewers if I were to want a toilet, shower, and sink
4) I ran a conduit to two different locations in case I want to bring in propane
5) I ran in a conduit for future communications, internet, TV, etc,,,

To date, I have only used two of the conduits, but, it sure is nice to have them,,,,

 

[Industrial Toys]

I ran all kinds of contingency stuff. Even two 12" conduits in case I wanted to put a wood boiler in there to feed the house and other buildings.

As it is, eight years later, I still only have the few lights plugged in with an extension cord that I put up to do the concrete floor. I just never go in there at night.

 

[D2Cat]

How many lines do you actually have to go over? How deep is each one? 100' isn't along distance. Why not take the shortest distance which is from the existing panel to the new building and get some locates, dig with whatever machine you have and hand dig where you need to.

I could get the crew that works for a roofer friend (and you can find these guys anywhere) and they'd have that whole thing dug 24-30" deep in 4-5 hours. $15 x 4 guys +$60 hr/ x 5hr = $300, and I wouldn't need to rent anything.

 

[Industrial Toys]

You would be hard pressed to find anyone here to touch a shovel, except maybe to lean on it. And then maybe move the wrong way, to drink their coffee, throwing out their back and making a WSIB claim.

 

[D2Cat]

I hear ya, but there are some folks with a green card that will outwork about a dozen that were born here of the same age! And they use a shovel to get the shingles loose and in piles, then pick them up by the piles and dump in the trailer. You find no slouches on the roof!