Well is in...but I have some pump wiring and generator questions.

[Rmally]

Hey Folks,

So this morning they finished up installing the well pump, installers said to get a generator during the home build (or until the temp pole is brought in) when we need water. I asked what kind/type/ size and they just said at least a 4,000.

They also left some wire for me to hook-up a plug to plug into the generator....I asked what type of plug to get and they said a 230. I am by no means even a shade tree electrician but where in the world do you by a 230 plug? I went to several stores and none had a 230v plug. Can I assume a 220 plug is the same? I also noticed a few 250 plugs but nothing stating 230. For you electricians, after your done laughing give this newbie some advice please haha.

So here's what I've got......Well is 301 feet deep with 12-13 gallons per minute. The pump is sitting around 270 feet deep. It is a 1 hp pump with a 22 gallon pressure tank sitting outside. For the next 2-3 weeks I will need a generator to run the well, then electrical will be brought in.

Here's a few pictures if that helps (ignore the straps, we had some 60 mph winds coming through so i wanted to make sure it didn't go anywhere).

If more information is needed please let me know.

Generator recommendations would be appreciated, as well as how to hook-up the plug.

Thank you,

 

[fishheadbob]

Many generators have a 230 (220) outlet. An electric drier uses that size plug on a cord. Likely you can find the right plug at Home Depot, but I would ask for help and hope you get a retired electrician and not a kid. I know which HD near me has the retired union electrician: not only can a good employee find it for you, but my guy shows me how, but he knows I'm a good amateur.
Thinking about it more, it might be better for you to bring along your handiest friend, the one with a little electrical knowledge. Water+electricity+expensive pump+expensive generator might be a bad way to learn basic wiring.

 

[wagne223]

Hey Folks,

So this morning they finished up installing the well pump, installers said to get a generator during the home build (or until the temp pole is brought in) when we need water. I asked what kind/type/ size and they just said at least a 4,000.

They also left some wire for me to hook-up a plug to plug into the generator....I asked what type of plug to get and they said a 230. I am by no means even a shade tree electrician but where in the world do you by a 230 plug? I went to several stores and none had a 230v plug. Can I assume a 220 plug is the same? I also noticed a few 250 plugs but nothing stating 230. For you electricians, after your done laughing give this newbie some advice please haha.

So here's what I've got......Well is 301 feet deep with 12-13 gallons per minute. The pump is sitting around 270 feet deep. It is a 1 hp pump with a 22 gallon pressure tank sitting outside. For the next 2-3 weeks I will need a generator to run the well, then electrical will be brought in.

Here's a few pictures if that helps (ignore the straps, we had some 60 mph winds coming through so i wanted to make sure it didn't go anywhere).

If more information is needed please let me know.

Generator recommendations would be appreciated, as well as how to hook-up the plug.

Thank you,

I am a shadetree electrician so take this for what it is worth.......

People commonly use the phrase 220, 230, 240 to describe the recepticals and plugs that use both supply conductors in a typical residential home.
Recepticals that only use one supply conductor are often referred to as "110"

Every homes actual voltage will vary between 220 to 250 volts depending on the supplier and the transformer that supplies your home.

There are dozens of styles and types of plugs and receptacles that will use both conductors and vary by current capacity (amps).


Generator- must be capable of producing 220 - 250 volts at 60 Hertz and be rated at 4000 watts (5-6000 is better for starting the pump)

That generator should have an L14-30R receptacle on it.
That is very common on generators.

To make your connection, you will need to buy an L14-30P plug and have it installed on the gray wire they left laying there for you.

You can then plug the cord into the generator.

Warning, if you install the plug incorrectly you risk damaging the generator, the pump, the control box, or all of them.

Get someone who knows what they are doing or educate yourself prior to trying it.

 

[grsthegreat]

Personally I never recommend less than 7,000 watt running gen for any well pump. Ive seen too many damaged well pumps due to running too small of a generator. Plus, later on the larger generator will help around the place. Some smaller generators do not have the 4 wire , 230 volt outlets. And every 30 amp rated 230 volt gen that I’ve ever dealt with has a twist lock plug.

 

[gary49]

Ok, here's a way to kill two birds with one stone. You're going to need a temporary service and you'll want the well to be powered by it. Hire an electrician and get him to set your temporary service. Tell him you want him to install a breaker interlock and an inlet for generator power. Tell him it needs to be a 240 volt 30 amp twist lock inlet that matches your generator. I agree that the generator needs to be in the 7000 watt neighborhood. A 1 hp pump may require as much as 10 or so running amps and most importantly, will require about triple that to start the pump. Try to buy the generator to inlet cord already made up, if the electrician has to make it, it'll cost more. This way you can run the generator to get water as soon as the temporary service is ready to be hooked up by the utility company. You'll also be able to start building whether the utility has hooked you up or not and you'll be able to have water and build even if there is an outage. You can even reuse the generator, cord and inlet to set up an emergency panel in your new house or whatever it is you're building.

 

[Rmally]

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. We are building a new home and this is my first Well. I will look for a 7000 watt generator and that receptacle.

 

[Valveman]

A 1HP is 9 amps and a 4KW externally regulated or a 2.5KW internally regulated generator will start and run it no problem. A little larger won't hurt, especially if you want to run more than the well pump. I use a 3500 watt generator to test wells with a 1.5HP submersible. The three wire pumps with a control box will start much easier and with a smaller generator than a two wire pump with no control box. Installing a 12 GPM pump on a 22 gallon tank that will only hold 5 gallons of water will make the pump cycle too much and too often. You might consider a much larger tank or add a Cycle Stop Valve.
How a Pressure Tank Works and why you need a Cycle Stop Valve on Vimeo

 

[Rmally]

A 1HP is 9 amps and a 4KW externally regulated or a 2.5KW internally regulated generator will start and run it no problem. A little larger won't hurt, especially if you want to run more than the well pump. I use a 3500 watt generator to test wells with a 1.5HP submersible. The three wire pumps with a control box will start much easier and with a smaller generator than a two wire pump with no control box. Installing a 12 GPM pump on a 22 gallon tank that will only hold 5 gallons of water will make the pump cycle too much and too often. You might consider a much larger tank or add a Cycle Stop Valve.
How a Pressure Tank Works and why you need a Cycle Stop Valve on Vimeo

Thank you for the information! I will certainly get a cycle stop valve today.

 

[Rmally]

Hey electrical folks.....real quick question.

I bought the L14-30 plug and spoke to the well pump guy via phone. He said to connect the black and white to hot. He said both the wires need to be hot and the bare wire to ground.

Here's a picture of the plug, would the two hot wires go into X and Y? There is also a G and W, I assume the G is ground and no idea what the W is. Just want to verify before I connect this to the generator.

Thanks!

 

[SSdoxie]

connect the black & white to the X & Y and the bare ground to G. The W post would have the white wire connected there if the cable was 4 wires, in that case there would be black & red for the load power wires to X & Y and the white used as Neutral then ground to G.

 

[Rmally]

Great! Thank you for the advice.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Back up. First, buy your generator. A 7000 watt generator will probably have a 50A twist lock. A 30 amp plug is not big enough for 7000 watts. You have to buy the plug that matches the generator.

I'm a sort of shade tree electrician, so would buy a weather proof 60A to 125A breaker box and wire the pump to that. You can screw that to a treated post set in concrete, or you can build a little well house. That lets you tap 110v power locally, which can be handy. When you get the permanent power in, you can wire that to the sub-panel and it will be part of your electrical distribution. Trust me, being able to plug in a light bulb or power tool at your well head will someday be really handy. You will also have a main breaker at the well, and having a local disconnect will save you a lot of walking.

If this is too much for you, have an electrician do it for you, but it's not that complicated. Farmers have been doing it for 100 years. There are books that will show you how to do everything. The big thing they leave out is to make your connections really tight. Loose connections are dangerous, whether they are in an extension cord or in permanent wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Simpl...ocphy=9032908&hvtargid=pla-435490234064&psc=1

 

[grsthegreat]

Back up. First, buy your generator. A 7000 watt generator will probably have a 50A twist lock. A 30 amp plug is not big enough for 7000 watts. You have to buy the plug that matches the generator.

I'm a sort of shade tree electrician, so would buy a weather proof 60A to 125A breaker box and wire the pump to that. You can screw that to a treated post set in concrete, or you can build a little well house. That lets you tap 110v power locally, which can be handy. When you get the permanent power in, you can wire that to the sub-panel and it will be part of your electrical distribution. Trust me, being able to plug in a light bulb or power tool at your well head will someday be really handy. You will also have a main breaker at the well, and having a local disconnect will save you a lot of walking.

If this is too much for you, have an electrician do it for you, but it's not that complicated. Farmers have been doing it for 100 years. There are books that will show you how to do everything. The big thing they leave out is to make your connections really tight. Loose connections are dangerous, whether they are in an extension cord or in permanent wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Simpl...ocphy=9032908&hvtargid=pla-435490234064&psc=1

note. lots of 7,000 watt generators have 30 amp receptacles.

 

[gary49]

Back up. First, buy your generator. A 7000 watt generator will probably have a 50A twist lock. A 30 amp plug is not big enough for 7000 watts. You have to buy the plug that matches the generator.

I'm a sort of shade tree electrician, so would buy a weather proof 60A to 125A breaker box and wire the pump to that. You can screw that to a treated post set in concrete, or you can build a little well house. That lets you tap 110v power locally, which can be handy. When you get the permanent power in, you can wire that to the sub-panel and it will be part of your electrical distribution. Trust me, being able to plug in a light bulb or power tool at your well head will someday be really handy. You will also have a main breaker at the well, and having a local disconnect will save you a lot of walking.

If this is too much for you, have an electrician do it for you, but it's not that complicated. Farmers have been doing it for 100 years. There are books that will show you how to do everything. The big thing they leave out is to make your connections really tight. Loose connections are dangerous, whether they are in an extension cord or in permanent wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Simpl...ocphy=9032908&hvtargid=pla-435490234064&psc=1

240 volts X30 amps=7200 watts. Indeed, most 7000 watt or so generators have 30 amp 4 wire twist lock receptacles.

 

[Rmally]

Ok guys, good news and maybe bad news....before I read these responses I had hooked up the plug and used a friends generator to see if it worked. I'm hoping I didn't cause any damage, it worked fine or seemed to but I won't try this again if its bad for the pump.

I'm still not sure how to actually use this pressure tank and the well itself. This was the first time I have pumped water so it was expected to be dirty and I'm sure it will clear in time. Am I supposed to pump air into this tank? Install a pressure switch as well, and if so where would it attach.

I did notice after about 6-8 minutes the water just stopped and the tank pressure went to zero. I shut the generator off immediately and looked for any signs or smells....found nothing. So I did re-start the generator and it starting pumping water again but then 5 mins or so later stopped pumping water so I shut it off again.

Is the pump maybe shutting off to protect itself? The pump company told me all I needed was a minimum 4,000 watt generator and this is a 5700/7125. The pump kicks on immediately and has no trouble.

I'll do some more well searching but if anyone has any ideas throw them my way.

Here's a few pictures.

 

[gary49]

The small grey box that the wire comes out of is the pressure switch. If you aren't drawing water out if the tank, the gauge should shut off at 60 psi (might be 50 psi). When you draw water from the hose fitting, the pressure should drop and the switch will turn the pump back on at 40 psi (might be 30 psi). The water should NOT be shutting off with pressure dropping to zero, even when running a hose wide open for several minutes. If you have a voltmeter, you can check the running voltage, it shouldn't drop below 220 volts and it would be desirable for it to stay closer to 240. Check the voltage at the pressure switch, the cover comes off, touch voltmeter probes to screws the wires to pump attach to. Possibilities are that the generator isn't producing the correct voltage, or the dirty water is so bad it's binding up the pump. A clamp on ammeter would be nice to have, then you could check running amperage, which should be 8 amps or so if your pump is a 1 HP unit. I guess there's a slim possibility you're pumping the well down, how many GPM did your driller claim the well produced? What is the static water level in the well?

 

[gary49]

Re-read first post. 12-13 GPM. A hose generally won't flow fast enough to draw that much water. You're not pumping the well down.

 

[Carl_NH]

Either the pump switch is not wired properly or the check valve on the pump is stuck open allowing the water to go back down the well which if its not holding 50 PSI when off sounds like a possibility. Normally the pump company test runs a system before leaving did they not do this? Also did they wire the switch and pump? In either case I would have them come out but you can check a few things.

Pull off the cover to the pump pressure switch and you will see 4 screws and contacts - 2 on each side - the white and black wire from the generator should be connected one on each side (like the outer two screws) then the pump red and black connect to the inner two screws. On the bottom of the pressure switch you will see a spring loaded plate - take a pair of vise grips or pliers and depress that plate and the contacts will open switching off the power to the pump. This way you can simulate the pressure switch operation and test to make sure you aren't getting leak down back into the well (bad/open check valve on pump).

I did not see the brand of pressure tank, but most have a precharged air tank at 35PSI. If you are getting leak down, call your pump installer.

 

[TractorGuy]

You definitely need a clamp on amp meter to check running and starting currents. The $15 unit from HF will do. Mind you I tested two different HF meters against a Fluke and both read about 3 amps low. It would probably be best to test it on one of the hot wires between the pressure switch and the generator but testing at the actual pump wires will do.

If the pressure switch has a lever on the right side make sure it is in the auto position after you get the pump to start.

Does the system have a control panel between the pressure switch and pump?

I agree that a well drilling company should have run the well clean and fully test it before leaving. Most would have run the well clean before connecting to the tank.

 

[Carl_NH]

You definitely need a clamp on amp meter to check running and starting currents. The $15 unit from HF will do. Mind you I tested two different HF meters against a Fluke and both read about 3 amps low. It would probably be best to test it on one of the hot wires between the pressure switch and the generator but testing at the actual pump wires will do.

If the pressure switch has a lever on the right side make sure it is in the auto position after you get the pump to start.

Does the system have a control panel between the pressure switch and pump?

Agree on the Ampmeter - but the pump is a two wire - black/red for pump and green ground, so no control box and the square D pressure switch appears to be a standard (no lever on the right side which is a low pressure cut out type) so its on/off with the pressure.

Here is a video that explains the pump/tank and switch wiring replacement. Well pump pressure switch replacement and re-pressurizing the pressure tank - YouTube