Protective chaps and PPE review

[hslogger]

If you are gonna run chainsaw, there aint no sense in being cavalier about it for nacho machoness. I fell and bucked timber in OG and thinning situations for a very long time.When they started suggesting chap wearing I resisted. When the insurance companies told their clients to have the cutters and chasers wear them, I bitched. I got used to them. It became a law. I am in the self preservation lane of my life and wear my Labonvilles 99percent of the time if I pick up a saw anywhere. I have had bad leg cuts. I have seen BAD leg cuts. It can happen to anyone, anytime.

 

[ArlyA]

Allow me to reiterate what the accident statistics clearly demonstrate. Chaps have about a 50% chance of protecting you. Reading through this report, prompted me to get the Kevlar embedded shirt. YRMV!

 

[John_Mc]

Allow me to reiterate what the accident statistics clearly demonstrate. Chaps have about a 50% chance of protecting you. Reading through this report, prompted me to get the Kevlar embedded shirt. YRMV!

It's interesting: I tend to look at people who don't wear chaps and a helmet with hearing and eye protection as being a little bit crazy. Despite that statistic, I don't wear a protective jacket. (... and yes, I'm well aware that this does not jibe with my post of a few minutes ago that "I wanted to be around to see my kids grow up and have full use of all my limbs while doing so".)

I have relatives in Sweden who are loggers. They look at all of us here in the US as crazy for not also wearing the jacket. (If I'm not mistaken, it's required in Sweden. You also need to be trained and licensed to operate a chainsaw.) For them, gearing up with full PPE is as natural as one of us grabbing a hot pad to pull a casserole out of the oven.

I guess we all have our own personal level of risk tolerance.

 

[John_Mc]

Mr Hamiltonville Farm, In your video, your thumb is not always around the saws front handle. This is a no, no becase if the saw kicks back, its less likely you'll engage the brake. The brake is your friend...

Definitely! Keeping your thumb wrapped around the handle is a simple and effective safety technique anyone can do and at zero expense.

It's not just about engaging the brake. If your thumb is not wrapped, it's MUCH easier to lose your grip if the saw is bumped or kicks back. If the saw pops out of your left hand, your hand is probably going to end up right near the chain. In a kickback, if the chains doesn't swing right up into your now-free hand, it's probably headed for your face or shoulder. Keeping your hand on the handle at least gives you the possibility of controlling a kickback.

During one of my Game Of Logging training sessions, the instructor noticed that my thumb was drifting up. He mentioned it and I tried to may more attention to it. He finally noticed that for me, it was only happening when I shifted my grip (for instance, when switching from cutting up & down to cutting right to left). Once he pointed that out, I was cured. It stuck in my head to pay attention whenever I shifted my grip.

Another student in that class just couldn't develop the habit of keeping his thumb wrapped. So the instructor pulled a length of that plastic surveyor's tape out of his pocket and tied it around the guy's left thumb. For the rest of the class, he did pretty well at keeping that thumb wrapped. The instructor suggested he tie that ribbon on the next few times he was using the saw alone, until he developed the habit. Eventually, it becomes muscle memory, and it just does not feel right to grip the handle any other way.

 

[ericm979]

This is a whole bunch of Horrible. I've had so many close calls I finally got helmet and chaps. Anything is better that what I was doing. Cutting several cord in July in shorts and tennis shoes. Done it a lot.

Steel toe boots too. One of the guys I worked with in the forest service was nicknamed "nine toes" due to a chainsaw accident.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I'm thinking a lot of people should not touch a chain saw. Like maybe people with those limp fish handshakes. My lady friend helps me cut wood, but I would never let her use a saw. She has enough strength to use one, but not enough to prevent a kick back for instance. No amount of safety gear is adequate for someone that shouldn't be using a saw in the first place. IMO. I you find it hard and a struggle to use a saw, that's a good indication, maybe you aren't cut out to use one. I knew a guy with one gamey arm who used a saw! How ridiculous is that? If you can't concentrate and know at all times where your bar is and where your body parts are, maybe you shouldn't use a saw.

 

[ericm979]

I feel the safety gear is not a replacement for proper operation, but an extra on top.

To me preventing kickback injury is more positoning the saw correctly and being aware of where the bar tip is (and where the operator is) than pure strength.

I had a neighbor who was one of those people who should stay away from saws (or any equipement). His stuff was constantly broken because he abused it. Nice guy and he'd come out to help on the neighborhood road clearing day but I could not stand to watch him run a saw because it was one near miss after another.

 

[Wagtail]

I guess we all have our own personal level of risk tolerance.

This is what I would 'pound' into all of the sailors that were under my supervision... and the Cadets that I instruct today, "You get the level of safety that you are prepared to ignore/'walk past'."

When I bought my first chainsaw (a Stihl Mini-Boss ), I also purchased full chaps, gloves and helmet with face shield & ear-defenders. I didn't operate the saw until a mate with years of logging experience came over and instructed me on how to operate the saw... especially in different scenarios.

I was unaware of these kevlar shirts & will investigate... Thanks TBN! :thumbsup:

 

[John_Mc]

I'm thinking a lot of people should not touch a chain saw ... No amount of safety gear is adequate for someone that shouldn't be using a saw in the first place.

That much I certainly agree with. There are some people who shouldn't operate an electric toothbrush, let alone a chainsaw.

If you can't concentrate and know at all times where your bar is and where your body parts are, maybe you shouldn't use a saw.

There is a whole lot more to staying safe than concentration. The logging industry is full of people with some nasty-looking injuries (not to mention those who are permanently crippled or 6 feet under) who thought the could "concentrate and know where their bar is at all times". Fatigue and dehydration slow your brain down, impairing judgement and reaction time - often well before you are aware of any problem.

 

[ArlyA]

This is why I wear PPE! (personal protective equipment)

There is a whole lot more to staying safe than concentration. The logging industry is full of people with some nasty-looking injuries (not to mention those who are permanently crippled or 6 feet under) who thought the could "concentrate and know where their bar is at all times". Fatigue and dehydration slow your brain down, impairing judgement and reaction time - often well before you are aware of any problem.

 

[s219]

No one plans or intends to have an accident with a chainsaw. I wear protective gear: full wrap chaps or chainsaw protective pants, and a helmet with hearing and eye protection. A few years ago, I added Haix chainsaw protective boots - our county forester almost lost his foot in a chainsaw accident. I figured if it can happen to him, it can happen to me. I've never had an injury, but that doesn;t mean it won't happen. I fell a fair number of trees each year for my own use (mostly firewood, the occasional sawlog for a special project), and helping out others clearing trails, cleaning up storm blow-down, and harvesting firewood for our local firewood donation program.

There is a reason that logging is one of the most dangerous professions in the US. (As a reflection of that, Workers Comp Insurance rates for loggers doing hand cutting in Vermont can run to 100% of their wages: so for every dollar an employer pays a logger, he's paying another dollar into Workers Comp insurance.)

I decided early on in my chainsaw usage that I wanted to be around to see my kids grow up and have full use of all my limbs while doing so. So I wear the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), and I realized there is more to felling a tree safely than what is on the little book that comes with your chainsaw (or what your more experienced neighbor is likely to tell you), so I enrolled in some chainsaw safety & efficiency training (Game Of Logging). Yeah, sometimes it's a pain, and it can be hot to wear that stuff in the summer, but it beats a trip to the Emergency Room.

Very well spoken. I have looked at chainsaw boots several times over the years and almost bought some but passed for one reason or another. This winter I have been doing a lot of cutting and seems like I am more aware of how often there's a boot poking out from beneath my Labonvilles (I have full wraps properly sized to go all the way down). I think maybe my guardian angel has been sending me a message!

One thing I learned in a logging safety course is that severe dehydration / heat stroke can be a huge risk in warm climates and you have to weigh the pros/cons of wearing PPE and chaps in hot weather. My solution is to pretty much avoid treework between June-September when it's so hot here. If we get a hurricane and I have to do cleanup in hot weather, I make careful decisions about when PPE is appropriate and take more breaks to cool down. I don't think loggers on a job would have that option, but for the rest of us it can be manageable.

I don't think I've ever had a close call with a chainsaw despite dealing with some gnarly situations, knock on wood. Never had a close call with wood chippers either, knock on wood. What actually got me was my log splitter -- the equipment that moves slow and takes 10-15 seconds to cycle. Almost lost a finger on that one.

 

[John_Mc]

I don't think I've ever had a close call with a chainsaw despite dealing with some gnarly situations, knock on wood. Never had a close call with wood chippers either, knock on wood. What actually got me was my log splitter -- the equipment that moves slow and takes 10-15 seconds to cycle. Almost lost a finger on that one.

We've had similar experiences. I used to be able to say that I'm always very careful about where I put my hands when operating the log splitter. Then one day I was out in the woods at another property. I had almost filled the trailer. I was tired, dehydrated, and hungry. I stopped to take a drink and thought "I should knock off for the day". I should have listened to myself. I decided to split enough to fill the last row on the trailer, so I could haul it with me on my way home. I had made about a dozen splits when one round started to roll off the splitter. My brain was working slowly, probably due to the dehydration. I reached out and grabbed the end of the log, and rolled it back on just in time to pinch my left index finger between the log and the anvil. I let go and at first thought "that was lucky". Only about as much pain as if I had pinched my finger between two logs when stacking... then I looked at the other side of my finger. The finger had basically burst, splitting the skin around the ti and down to the first knuckle.

I drove myself out on the tractor and over to a friend who lived nearby and had him drive me to the ER. After the X-rays, the doc said, "you're lucky. The bone is cracked, but not completely shattered. Another little bit - probably less than 1/8" and we'd either be amputating the from the last knuckle to the end, or if it wasn't too bad, you'd be seeing a hand specialist for reconstructive surgery."

It healed up OK. I lost a bit of range of motion, and it get's cold a lot easier than my other fingers (and unfortunately, I've lost a bit of sensation, so I sometimes don't know it's getting cold.) On the upside, I can predict the weather with it, since it often aches when a storm is coming in (my wife is fond of saying in another couple years, my whole body will do that).

 

[ericm979]

I always bring a bottle of water or two with me when I'm cutting or splitting.

I used to do long difficult bicycle races (big mountains and high temperatures) so I'm really familiar with dehydration and how to avoid it. If you're not peeing regularly you need to drink more.

It's easy to overheat while wearing chaps because they block the sweat from evaporating. You don't even get the cooling from the sweat soaking your pants under the chaps. The chainsaw helmet doesn't help either, you get a lot of cooling from sweat evaporating on your head and the helmet blocks a lot of that. When it's hot I take breaks in the shade with the helmet and chaps off.

I've read that some chainsaw pants can be cooler than jeans + chaps but I've yet to find some that come in long lengths at a price I'd pay for an experiment.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It's funny. I see people who don't appear to work (or sitting in front of a computer) always with water in their hands and some of the hardest working people on the planet, don't constantly have water, or this fixation about staying hydrated. I notice this all the time.

 

[radios1]

why Kevlar? chain maille is much better!.. it breathes much better too!..

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have never seen any of my hard working friends drinking water. And they aren't exactly dying. And I mean "working". You never even saw a farmer on a 9n tractor for hours in the hot sun drinking water. Sure, if you are sweating buckets, I'm sure there is the "eventual" requirement to replenish your fluids. These people who aren't even sweating carrying around water, give me a break!

I had a roof put on a while ago, of course it had to be on the hottest days of the year. Those two guys didn't drink water either! Maybe they had a drink at lunch. I'm guessing, they are still both alive.

 

[s219]

We've had similar experiences. I used to be able to say that I'm always very careful about where I put my hands when operating the log splitter. Then one day I was out in the woods at another property. I had almost filled the trailer. I was tired, dehydrated, and hungry. I stopped to take a drink and thought "I should knock off for the day". I should have listened to myself. I decided to split enough to fill the last row on the trailer, so I could haul it with me on my way home. I had made about a dozen splits when one round started to roll off the splitter. My brain was working slowly, probably due to the dehydration. I reached out and grabbed the end of the log, and rolled it back on just in time to pinch my left index finger between the log and the anvil. I let go and at first thought "that was lucky". Only about as much pain as if I had pinched my finger between two logs when stacking... then I looked at the other side of my finger. The finger had basically burst, splitting the skin around the ti and down to the first knuckle.

I drove myself out on the tractor and over to a friend who lived nearby and had him drive me to the ER. After the X-rays, the doc said, "you're lucky. The bone is cracked, but not completely shattered. Another little bit - probably less than 1/8" and we'd either be amputating the from the last knuckle to the end, or if it wasn't too bad, you'd be seeing a hand specialist for reconstructive surgery."

It healed up OK. I lost a bit of range of motion, and it get's cold a lot easier than my other fingers (and unfortunately, I've lost a bit of sensation, so I sometimes don't know it's getting cold.) On the upside, I can predict the weather with it, since it often aches when a storm is coming in (my wife is fond of saying in another couple years, my whole body will do that).

About the same deal for me but it was the tip of the left ring finger. Got distracted and the finger tip got pinched between an odd shaped piece of wood and the end plate. My nerves sensed the pain before the log was fully against the plate, so the log was just starting to press on the spikes on the end plate and my finger was in the gap when I let off the lever. Still got smashed pretty bad, and crushed the bone into many pieces. Luckily I was able to keep the finger but it was dicey at first and took many months to heal.

Now when I split I look like a butler with my left hand tucked back behind my waist, but it's the only way I know to assure that the left hand is nowhere near danger. I see videos of guys who constantly have their left hand on the wood, manhandling it for some extra speed, and think it's just a matter of time before they get bit. Even the wood itself can pop open, slide off the wedge, and snap closed causing pinch injuries. I just don't want that left hand anywhere near the wood or splitter.

 

[s219]

I have never seen any of my hard working friends drinking water. And they aren't exactly dying. And I mean "working". You never even saw a farmer on a 9n tractor for hours in the hot sun drinking water. Sure, if you are sweating buckets, I'm sure there is the "eventual" requirement to replenish your fluids. These people who aren't even sweating carrying around water, give me a break!

I had a roof put on a while ago, of course it had to be on the hottest days of the year. Those two guys didn't drink water either! Maybe they had a drink at lunch. I'm guessing, they are still both alive.

I used to be one of those guys then I had a couple kidney stones. No doubt, putting in all the landscaping at my first home was the cause, as I spent months out in the heat doing it all by hand (didn't get a tractor until 12 years later) and sweated like a SOB. Ruined my wrists too, from all the shoveling. After the kidney stones, I work harder to drink water. I can tell there are still times it's not enough, but it's better than nothing.

I know I am the odd man out when I show up to jobs or go out for a day of fishing with a whole gallon of water, and everyone else has a single 12 oz bottled water. I don't know how they do it. I do sweat a lot more than most folks, being a Yankee who now lives in the south. Never have adapted to the heat.