Rairoad Ties For Retaining Wall?

[Diggin It]

I saw there is another retaining wall thread and thought of adding there, but the purposes seem too different.

I need a short wall about 3 feet high on one side and close to 20 feet long. The other side would "L" off at 90 degrees and taper from that 3 feet down to nothing. I though about concrete block, but there is a significant cost for a few hundred blocks and mortar and I'm not very good at that kind of masonry. The current wall is just treated 2x8s stacked and held with fence posts. It has done the job for several years but is now leaning and bowing quite a bit as expected. It held lot longer than I thought it would though.

I could re-do that, but the purpose is changing and I want the new wall to help form two sides of a storage shed. So, I thought about railroads ties that I can buy for $10-15 each. I would stack them so the ends are staggered to help interlock them Maybe drill holes and drive re-bar through them. The dirt side would be lined with a couple of layers of 4 or 6 mil plastic. I'd add a few 4x4 posts on the 'inside' which would both reinforce the ties and support the roof section.


Thoughts?

 

[jesseb3@att.net]

Buy the nicest ties you can find, and it could last 20-30 years. My father and I both have/had RR tie projects. His wall is falling apart now. Still straight and doing its job, but the back fill of gravel is starting to fall through holes here and there. While I like the idea of plastic, you really ought to let it drain. Backfill with gravel, and if you're going to use plastic sheeting, add pipes to remove the water.

 

[jesseb3@att.net]

Oh, and he had metal "straps" that ran vertically at the interior posts. Large bolts ran through the metal, through the tie, and into the posts. The straps acted as large washers so the bolts didn't pull through the ties over time.

 

[fried1765]

I saw there is another retaining wall thread and thought of adding there, but the purposes seem too different.

I need a short wall about 3 feet high on one side and close to 20 feet long. The other side would "L" off at 90 degrees and taper from that 3 feet down to nothing. I though about concrete block, but there is a significant cost for a few hundred blocks and mortar and I'm not very good at that kind of masonry. The current wall is just treated 2x8s stacked and held with fence posts. It has done the job for several years but is now leaning and bowing quite a bit as expected. It held lot longer than I thought it would though.

I could re-do that, but the purpose is changing and I want the new wall to help form two sides of a storage shed. So, I thought about railroads ties that I can buy for $10-15 each. I would stack them so the ends are staggered to help interlock them Maybe drill holes and drive re-bar through them. The dirt side would be lined with a couple of layers of 4 or 6 mil plastic. I'd add a few 4x4 posts on the 'inside' which would both reinforce the ties and support the roof section.


Thoughts?

Pre-bore holes in the ties, and use cut pieces of 1/2" re-bar for spikes.
Hold each row of ties an inch back from the top leading edge of the row below.
Consider constructing with a very slight inward tilt to the wall.
Be generous using "dead men".
Backfill with any type of coarse/permeable material.
Do not use plastic.
You do not show a location in your profile, so we do not know if frost will be an issue.
As mentioned: Buy the best quality used ties that you can find.

 

[ddbackhoe]

If I were placing a shed near/over the wall, I would use an interlocking block (no mortar).
Homeowner | Versa-Lok
Retaining Wall Product Line

How to Build a Retaining Wall | This Old House

 

[MillWeld]

Although not as high as yours (3 courses of ties max), I had success with mine. I needed to prevent erosion under the maple w/o upsetting oxygen to the roots so I backfilled with coarse bark and topped off with chips. After a year the maple is fine. My ties were crappy - I had to insert bolts thru them to hold them together, so as said before get good ones.

 

[Monster5601]

My wife wanted to do a landscaping project using used RR ties (Home Depot and Menards sells them) but when she discovered the issues with using creosote treated RR ties she back away from them and went with ties made from recycled and composite materials.

Googling the subject will bring back information like this;
Landscaping with Railroad Ties | HGTV

 

[EddieWalker]

From what I understand, RR ties can be cut from almost anything, so you really have no idea what type of wood is used. Here in East Texas, it's any hardwood that is big enough to be cut into a RR Tie. That doesn't mean that's what's available here because they are shipped all over the country, and then back again. But it does meant that you have no idea what you are using when you buy them.

The Railroad installs them on top of rock that allows the best possible drainage. They have to be kept off of the dirt to last.

Here in East Texas, lots of people use them for landscaping. I think they look nice when installed, but once they are in contact with the soil, the bugs find them. They start eating away the wood from the bottom so you never see it. Over the years, more and more wood is eaten away until all you have left is the part you see. Then one day, you touch it wrong, or there is a big storm, or you touch it with the mower, or whatever it is,and the wood just crumbles. Ten years seems to be about average.

I would never use RR Ties for anything.

If it's a small retaining wall, the cost of blocks isn't that much more. Do it once and be done with it.

 

[GLyford]

The "Dirt Monkey" guy on youtube has a mess of retaining wall videos, and looking at the walls he builds, fixes, and critiques seems to really know his stuff.

How Not To Build a Retaining Wall
How Not To Build a Retaining Wall - YouTube

How to Build a Retaining Wall
How to Build a Retaining Wall - YouTube

 

[AchingBack]

I would use pressure treated, 6"x6"x8' landscape timbers.

 

[JPRambo]

This is how I am doing it.

 

[ultrarunner]

They were popular here at one time...

What I see is after about 25 years they hollow out from the inside...

Had one I put in and looked good but the entire inside was hollowed out by termites!

They are also a huge problem to dispose of... the local transfer stations do not accept anymore.

My last wall project did with stacking blocks...

 

[Diggin It]

Cost is a prime issue so 6x6s at $30 or more each are out.

Termites are a big issue, but if they go after Ties, that defeats the purpose. I'm not concerned with Creosote or other treatments and I know Ties are generally used on a rock and drained surface, so I wasn't sure if they were soaked or not the way mine timbers are.

At 25', I would need 3 ties end to end and at 5 high ( 35" / 7" ), that makes 15 for the one side. Add 5 for the end and I'm at 25. Then at $12-15 each, I'm around $300 or so.

The same 25' would take 19 concrete blocks and 4 courses to get to the 36" which I make out to be 76 blocks.. Then another 30 for the end wall. At around $1.50 or so each currently, that's around $160 or so, plus mortar.

Block has an initial cost advantage if my numbers are even close to correct, but I can't lay block well at all. Maybe this would be a learning experience? What I don't want to do is lay block wrong and have it lean in 10 years or less. I have no idea what it would cost to have someone do it.

As far as drainage, there is a great need for it and the area above is beside the garage and gets runoff from the roof as well as overflow from a small swimming pool when it rains heavily.

Frost below 8" isn't an issue.



.

 

[mark02tj]

If you use the stacking/interlocking block, you won't need mortar. From what I've seen, once you get the first course level and straight, it goes pretty quickly from there.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ Would need to see costs on those. The interlocking landscape type blocks I've seen are $3-4 each at a minimum and less than the size of a standard concrete block.

 

[JPRambo]

Is there any construction going on in your area? My walls were made from throw away cement blocks. My cost was mortar.

 

[MossRoad]

My father used railroad ties to make low, wide steps. He backfilled with gravel. The upper ones lasted decades. The bottom course that was on the ground rotted out in 10 years and had to be replaced several times. Also, as others have mentioned, carpenter ants seemed to love them. The ties would look fine, but then someone would step on one, it would crush, and you'd see the insides were gone. They just aren't made for ground contact.

 

[Streetcar]

Digging it
Landscaping blocks are different than retaining wall blocks. Check link for versablock and see what is available in your area. To support a building you do not want material that will rot away. The key for retaining wall blocks is compact granular base and place first course level

 

[Diggin It]

^^ Nothing close by, but just from those pictures they look REALLY expensive which is something I can't deal with.

 

[jfh28]

if you have termites in your area keep in mind that termites first establish a nest and then when that nest matures.....usually in about 3-5 years......they send out flying termites to establish new satellite nests......which could be your house......putting wood on the ground could be a very expensive mistake.....I understand if $ are a problem now......I'd hold off until I could do it right......as others have said for a 3' high wall landscape blocks are the way to go.......Jack