Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[houser52]

Maybe I am seeing things, but in your video there is some movement in the tension pulley - more than I would expect running free, Can this be tightened more, or is it dependent on the spring? If it is dependent on the spring, I would somehow go heavier and then see how the belts align up. Also use a straight edge and make sure the tension pulley (smooth round cylinder) is parallel to everything and not putting different tension on the belts as it would if slightly out of alignment. BTW - are you missing a grease zerk in the end (center) of the tension pulley? There appears to be a hole for one.

Yes, the tension is dependent on the spring and it's adjusted as tight as it can be. Island Tractor had experimented with a solid link instead of a spring and that made no difference in the belt or pulley temperature.
I thought the slight belt vibration was normal?

I'll check the tension pulley again to see if it's parallel with the V pulleys.

 

[houser52]

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I can tell you from my personal experience that you need to slow down your travel speed with that height of grass. That is why you lost your first set of belts. The scoop knives should help a lot if you intend to mow only occasionally.

Your pulleys are fine and the flat snubber pulley is in proper tension with the supplied OEM spring as the V belts should not move more than an 1/8-3/16 of an inch with the push of a finger as the snubber is designed to react to loading on the rotor.

I know you have a lot of flail experience and you're trying to help me but, slow down even more? I can see it if I was mowing thick stuff at tractor hood level but I won't crawl along trying to mow 8"-10" lawn grass to keep belts from breaking.

I have a 30 year old finish mower and I only replaced the belts twice in those 30 years. I've already spent more on flail belts in a month that I have in 30 years on finish mower belts.

I'm not upset with you but if that's the way it's going to be with this flail mower, it will have to go.

 

[Ford850]

I would bet your biggest issue is discharge. Is there anything you can do to allow the mower to throw the mowed grass out easier than it's doing now? Regurgitating the same mowed grass make for a nice finish but it is a huge power hog. Think about a finish or rotary cutter, where the same applies. Raise the rear of those to clear the cuttings quicker and it relieves the stress and frees up power to mow easier.

 

[houser52]

I would bet your biggest issue is discharge. Is there anything you can do to allow the mower to throw the mowed grass out easier than it's doing now? Regurgitating the same mowed grass make for a nice finish but it is a huge power hog. Think about a finish or rotary cutter, where the same applies. Raise the rear of those to clear the cuttings quicker and it relieves the stress and frees up power to mow easier.

Thanks for the suggestion. Tried lots of things so far but none have helped.

I already mow pretty high, 3"-4", with the rear roller down on the ground. Tried lowering the front of the mower which is suppose to open the rear more. Tried it by raising the front a little with the roller still on the ground. I have the rear scraper bar tied up giving the clippings more room to exit over the roller.
There's not many clippings since the grass is so short anyway.

edit- Got the duckfoot blades and bolts a few minutes ago. The blades are .125" thick and 6 ounces each. Going to install them when I get home.

 

[leonz]

Hello houser52,

I apologize for forgetting to ask you this earlier but does the flail mower sound like a high end vacuum cleaner when you are mowing??? you may have to goose it a bit higher on the engine rpm side, I am so sorry I did not think to ask you this earlier.

Would you mind posting a few pictures of the flail mower rotor, the rear roller and the mounting arms for the rear roller?

You and Island Tractor have the same mower but different mules and I am still upset that it is not working for you as it should be.

Leon

 

[DoubleDeere]

Might want to take a look at going to a smaller Diameter belt if you can. Can't tell for sure in the video if you can lengthen the adjustment spring for the idler pulley or not. If you can keep the back side of the belts straighter with less curvature it would be less stress and heat on the belt. Also try notched belts if those aren't already.

 

[houser52]

Might want to take a look at going to a smaller Diameter belt if you can. Can't tell for sure in the video if you can lengthen the adjustment spring for the idler pulley or not. If you can keep the back side of the belts straighter with less curvature it would be less stress and heat on the belt. Also try notched belts if those aren't already.

Yes there is adjustment to decrease spring tension but the belts become too loose if the spring is relaxed too much. Smaller diameter belts might work if they can be installed on the pulleys. Both of the pulleys are stationary and even the original length belts can be tough to install onto the pulleys. Might be worth a try.

 

[DoubleDeere]

Take a look at this video of the belt tensioner on this Teagle flail mower Flail Mower Automatic Belt Tensioner - YouTube. Notice how flat the back of the belts are. Much less stress and internal heat on the belts. If you can't get them any flatter by going smaller diameter, at least put cogged belts on it. They generate less heat and are more flexible. Caroni has the tensioner pulley to close to the large drive pulley.

 

[leonz]

V belt vibration is normal. A smaller V belt will roll inside the grooves as it will walk inside the larger diameter pulley.

The same thing occurs with using am SAE belt on metric pulleys(been there done that with my JD JUNK snow blower-I can buy 6 V belts for the price of one JD driven V belt for my 44 inch snow thrower JUNK.

The Teagle Flail Mower uses a one piece 4-groove V belt for its high horsepower flail mowers and a very large coil spring to maintain snubber pulley tension.

 

[IslandTractor]

Maybe I am seeing things, but in your video there is some movement in the tension pulley - more than I would expect running free, Can this be tightened more, or is it dependent on the spring? If it is dependent on the spring, I would somehow go heavier and then see how the belts align up. Also use a straight edge and make sure the tension pulley (smooth round cylinder) is parallel to everything and not putting different tension on the belts as it would if slightly out of alignment. BTW - are you missing a grease zerk in the end (center) of the tension pulley? There appears to be a hole for one.

When my first set of belts broke about ten years ago the guys here on TBN were concerned about belt tension. I replaced the tensioning spring with a solid piece of ?wire (I haven't looked at it for years and am traveling). I essentially just cranked it tight to get half inch deflection. Since then I have replaced just that second set of Kevlar belts about three years ago so am on my third set total. I don't know if the tension issue is real or not but clearly the spring is not necessary.

 

[DoubleDeere]

V belt vibration is normal. A smaller V belt will roll inside the grooves as it will walk inside the larger diameter pulley.

The same thing occurs with using am SAE belt on metric pulleys(been there done that with my JD JUNK snow blower-I can buy 6 V belts for the price of one JD driven V belt for my 44 inch snow thrower JUNK.

The Teagle Flail Mower uses a one piece 4-groove V belt for its high horsepower flail mowers and a very large coil spring to maintain snubber pulley tension.

I did not recommend a narrower profile belt.

 

[houser52]

Hello houser52,

I apologize for forgetting to ask you this earlier but does the flail mower sound like a high end vacuum cleaner when you are mowing??? you may have to goose it a bit higher on the engine rpm side, I am so sorry I did not think to ask you this earlier.

Would you mind posting a few pictures of the flail mower rotor, the rear roller and the mounting arms for the rear roller?

You and Island Tractor have the same mower but different mules and I am still upset that it is not working for you as it should be.

Leon

I put on the new duckfoot blades yesterday but here are a few pics that you asked for.

 

[houser52]

As I mentioned earlier, I installed the new duckfoot blades on my Caroni TM1900 yesterday and had enough time before dark to try them out.

Everything seems to be balanced as I didn't have any mower vibration at all. I had weighed each blade at exactly 6 ounces each. These new blades have a different sound than the Y blades when the machine is running, more like a deep hum of a heavy duty vacuum cleaner. Raising the mower while cutting creates a cloud of clippings and dust from under the mower. The blades must create a lot of suction.

I have the cutting height set with the roller in the fourth hole from the bottom which makes it set pretty high which is the way I want it. I ran the tractor at a little less than 540 PTO speed and the tractor around 2200 rpm.

I tried it first by cutting pretty thick 8" grass around my tractor shed. The finish was very similar to my zero turn leaving a nice clean cut. I then mowed about another hour around the old home place in similar grass and it mowed just as well.

It's probably too early to tell but the new green Kevlar belts are holding up well so far.

Here's a couple before and after pics of the grass at my tractor shed.

 

[lpigott]

Looks nice! Is it safe to say, at this point, you prefer the duck foots over the Ys?

 

[leonz]

Hello and good morning houser52,


I am glad the knife change helped with the mowing issue and the cut looks good.


Leon

 

[houser52]

Looks nice! Is it safe to say, at this point, you prefer the duck foots over the Ys?

The duckfoot blades definitely cut the grass and weeds that I mowed yesterday better than the Y blades. Keep in mind that this was pasture like grass that didn't have any rocks or brushes and the duckfoot blades did not suffer any damage from some small dead pecan branches that was run over.

I've only got to mow with them for a couple hours under good ground conditions but I really like them so far. I think they're going to work out great.

 

[DoubleDeere]

good to see you are making progress houser52. I am attaching some photos and a PDF to try to explain better the flail mowers idlers and v-belt reverse bends issues. Not sure if it helps anybody understand or not. I am not the best at explaining things.


View attachment Idlers.pdf

 

[houser52]

good to see you are making progress houser52. I am attaching some photos and a PDF to try to explain better the flail mowers idlers and v-belt reverse bends issues. Not sure if it helps anybody understand or not. I am not the best at explaining things.


View attachment 523262View attachment 523263View attachment 523264View attachment 523265

Thanks and I understood what you were talking about earlier. A shorter belt would mean less belt wrap around on the v pulleys creating less contact and less friction like in the first pic. If I can get a 1 inch shorter belt to fit over the pulleys, I'll give'em a try. Can't hurt.

 

[whirly]

View attachment 523262

Thanks for the PDF. Very enlightening.

 

[DoubleDeere]

Thanks and I understood what you were talking about earlier. A shorter belt would mean less belt wrap around on the v pulleys creating less contact and less friction like in the first pic. If I can get a 1 inch shorter belt to fit over the pulleys, I'll give'em a try. Can't hurt.

When I watched your video I noticed the sharp reverse bend on the idler. That photo I snipped from your video to compare it to the other photos. As the belts stretch the reverse bend will increase on all 3 of the units. The Vrisimo has the largest idler on it of the 3 and should lessen the sharpness ( small radius ) of the reverse bend. Anything that you can do to decrease the reverse bend on it whether it be shorter belts or larger idler pulley I would think has to help increase the belt life. The other caution would be, you do not want to do anything to create to much tension on the belts causing decreased belt life and bearing life.