The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[IslandTractor]

Which one is that and how wide does it open?

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Which one is that and how wide does it open?

50" Single Lid.
50" wide. 30" opening.
Same one here.

It looks pretty big on the BX. Anything more wouldn't be great IMO.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

If more is desired, it doesn't add much $$ or weight to step up to the 54", which gives you a 37" opening.
I'll never get tired of sharing this awesome pic of the 54" single lid.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

50" on the 1025R John Deere. Goldilocks!

 

[IslandTractor]

Agree that for the BX the 50 compact looks about right. I guess the question is aimed more at larger tractors with "lightduty" 48-60" single lid grapples. What is it that is different between the geometry of your 54" that ends up with 7" less opening than mine? It looks proportional but I wonder if my bottom tines might be longer and therefore the lid is also longer. From the back of my grapple to the tips of bottom tines is I think a bit shy of 34" (see yardstick photo below). I measured the distance from the bottom beam to the tips at about 28" (so a 28" log should just be at the tine tips). Is that dimension much smaller on your 54"?? I'm just not seeing where the 7" difference in opening is? I do note that your grapple upper tines touch your bottom tine tips (at least I recall James saying his 50 does that). Mine clearly has a couple inches of overbite so that could be part of it. I also notice that my lid pivot is an inch or two forward of the upper beam while yours is almost flush with the edge of the beam. That would certainly push the jaw forward (by about the amount of overbite) but not clear to me how that would make the opening bigger.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

The cylinder mounts are noticeably different.
The one on your grapple is taller. The one on your lid is also taller and pointed forward, away from the tractor.
Ours is lower and pointed toward the tractor.
Also, concerning the closing geometry....our cylinder is pushing down where yours is pushing out. This downward push will generate more clamping/pinching force if the cylinders and pressure is equal.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Island Tractor, LOOK!! EA recommending a smaller grapple than the customer asks for!!! :thumbsup:

"I contemplated and researched acquiring a root grapple for two years, and my biggest regret was that I didn't do it immediately. Delivery was quick and right on time (under two weeks). I hooked it up immediately on receipt, and have been working it hard since. It has greatly exceeded my expectations and again, wish I hadn't delayed. I am cleaning a lot of brush, moving logs and large stones, clearing area of bush and roots, as I was working on a new building site. It was suggested I get the 60" over the 66" which I also find was a great suggestion as I will also be working in the woods and having better mobility is important. Kudos to the folks at EA!"

 

[k0ua]

If more is desired, it doesn't add much $$ or weight to step up to the 54", which gives you a 37" opening.
I'll never get tired of sharing this awesome pic of the 54" single lid.
Travis

View attachment 484326

That is a good looking tractor/grapple combo.:thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

Island Tractor, LOOK!! EA recommending a smaller grapple than the customer asks for!!! :thumbsup:

"I contemplated and researched acquiring a root grapple for two years, and my biggest regret was that I didn't do it immediately. Delivery was quick and right on time (under two weeks). I hooked it up immediately on receipt, and have been working it hard since. It has greatly exceeded my expectations and again, wish I hadn't delayed. I am cleaning a lot of brush, moving logs and large stones, clearing area of bush and roots, as I was working on a new building site. It was suggested I get the 60" over the 66" which I also find was a great suggestion as I will also be working in the woods and having better mobility is important. Kudos to the folks at EA!"

You get a gold star today. Keep it up! :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

That is a good looking tractor/grapple combo.:thumbsup:

Nah, too much paint on that grapple. Garage queen (unless it is a newborn grapple).

 

[IslandTractor]

The cylinder mounts are noticeably different.
The one on your grapple is taller. The one on your lid is also taller and pointed forward, away from the tractor.
Ours is lower and pointed toward the tractor.
Also, concerning the closing geometry....our cylinder is pushing down where yours is pushing out. This downward push will generate more clamping/pinching force if the cylinders and pressure is equal.
Travis

View attachment 484337

I agree with your points about the two grapples different geometry. However, I wonder how much closing pressure is really useful. The photos below that I've posted before shows a greater than one ton granite boulder being yanked out of the ground by my grapple with ONLY ONE UPPER TINE in contact with the rock (my mistake). The pressure was enough to bend/splay the tine out (since straightened and reinforced). It was enough pressure to hold the rock while lifting it from undisturbed ground.

I have never noticed a lack of closing pressure even though the geometry isn't as favorable for pressure as your EA upper lid. If that is the only reason your grapples are designed with smaller openings then you might reconsider that aspect of the design. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone with any grapple complain about lack of closing pressure but there have been some complaints about less than 40" opening size.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

I agree with your points about the two grapples different geometry. However, I wonder how much closing pressure is really useful. The photos below that I've posted before shows a greater than one ton granite boulder being yanked out of the ground by my grapple with ONLY ONE UPPER TINE in contact with the rock (my mistake). The pressure was enough to bend/splay the tine out (since straightened and reinforced). It was enough pressure to hold the rock while lifting it from undisturbed ground.

I have never noticed a lack of closing pressure even though the geometry isn't as favorable for pressure as your EA upper lid. If that is the only reason your grapples are designed with smaller openings then you might reconsider that aspect of the design. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone with any grapple complain about lack of closing pressure but there have been some complaints about less than 40" opening size.

We've sold hundreds of the CA compact grapple with a 30" opening. They still have the same opening today.
We started with a 30" opening for the Wicked Grapple and produced happy customers for 2+ years.

Island Tractor starts a fuss.....
The 54-72" single and double lid Wicked Grapples were enhanced to open to 37" for those wanting MORE!

The 50" Wicked Grapple has a 30" opening and always has.
It is perfect for small tractors. It's one of our best sellers. It's solid. It ain't broke. We ain't fixing it!!
Travis

 

[lostcreekranch]

We've sold hundreds of the CA compact grapple with a 30" opening. They still have the same opening today.
We started with a 30" opening for the Wicked Grapple and produced happy customers for 2+ years.

Island Tractor starts a fuss.....
The 54-72" single and double lid Wicked Grapples were enhanced to open to 37" for those wanting MORE!

The 50" Wicked Grapple has a 30" opening and always has.
It is perfect for small tractors. It's one of our best sellers. It's solid. It ain't broke. We ain't fixing it!!
Travis

Well stated Travis! Time to give this well worn out subject a rest IT?

Or ...... maybe all potential grapple purchasers should go thru IT to get their application approved prior to placing an order?

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Well stated Travis! Time to give this well worn out subject a rest IT?

Or ...... maybe all potential grapple purchasers should go thru IT to get their application approved prior to placing an order?

Island knows I mean no harm by my comments.
We've debated for years on this very subject.

A wider opening would require a combination of some of the following: a taller back, taller lid, longer tines, longer lid, longer cylinder stroke, longer cylinder mounts.

These things will do both of the following: add weight and extend the center of gravity. You want NEITHER on a small tractor, especially if it's a subcompact.
Travis

 

[IslandTractor]

We've sold hundreds of the CA compact grapple with a 30" opening. They still have the same opening today.
We started with a 30" opening for the Wicked Grapple and produced happy customers for 2+ years.

Island Tractor starts a fuss.....
The 54-72" single and double lid Wicked Grapples were enhanced to open to 37" for those wanting MORE!

The 50" Wicked Grapple has a 30" opening and always has.
It is perfect for small tractors. It's one of our best sellers. It's solid. It ain't broke. We ain't fixing it!!
Travis

Well, I'm really not pissing on the EA compact and mid size grapples, just exploring why they have a smaller opening than many other similar grapples. You know very well that I've been an admirer of the EA grapples. However, I assume you'd like to improve the product going forward even if it is "perfect" already just as Mercedes and Boeing and Apple and Kubota do. If another grapple company manages to include a desirable feature in a competitive model I'd think you guys would want to at least match them.

If you look back in this thread you will see that I was not the one who brought up the opening width issue. In fact I was rather surprised to learn of it and couldn't figure out why the opening of the EA compact was so much smaller. I do appreciate that for a BX 30" is all you'd really want or be able to use but the grapple is rated to 35hp so someone with a true CUT rather than SCUT might well want a larger opening. Yes, you do have the 54" which is an improvement but why doesn't that one open as wide as my older 48" grapple?

Again, it was potential customers, not I, who raised this issue almost from the start. I only became aware of it and interested in the geometry after others brought it to my attention. The 54" with its 37" opening is perhaps the "Mark II" version and a great addition to the line but it seems that at least some of your customers would value an even wider opening. I can say that I've never wished my opening width was less than the 44" I have and that width has been important to getting some bulky items like stumps and big logs into the grapple. As noted earlier, it isn't an issue for grapples aimed at the BX SCUT size tractor but even my CK20, which is identical to the CT122 Ted used to torture test your 50" compact, made good use of the extra 14" of opening even though the lift capacity was "only" 1070lbs. See the photo below of my CK20 wide open gathering debris on the ground or grabbing hold of an awkward stump. Your EA50 and 54 would have trouble with these tasks only because of opening width.

In your followup post you indicate that the reasons for not making the opening wider were to avoid increased weight and extending the center of gravity. Those are both valid concerns but need to be balanced against the increased utility of having a wider opening. Indeed, having a wider opening can allow a large bulky item to be "swallowed" deeper by the grapple so that the center of gravity is actually further aft. And, extending the cylinder stroke or cylinder and lid pivot mounts (as on my Millonzi) would seem to add very little weight. Ask yourself a hypothetical question: "Would our customers rather have a grapple that opened 7-14" wider even if it added five or ten pounds to grapple weight and reduced net lift capacity by ten to twenty pounds?". You guys run a CAD driven ?water or ?plasma metal cutter so really you could even offer the extended opening as an extra cost option that would actually cost you very little extra to fabricate. Just play in CAD with the geometric changes to opening associated with moving the various cylinder and lid pivot points or, perhaps a bigger deal, just lengthen the upper lid a few inches and mount it on higher posts. You wouldn't need to touch the bottom or back of the grapple.

Necessity is the mother of invention. The only criticisms I've seen of your compact grapples are the opening width and cost. One of those can be easily fixed!

 

[IslandTractor]

Well stated Travis! Time to give this well worn out subject a rest IT?

Or ...... maybe all potential grapple purchasers should go thru IT to get their application approved prior to placing an order?

Maybe you should realize that this is a discussion forum not simply a marketing thread for EA. And, if the subject is so "well worn out", why isn't there a solution?

 

[lostcreekranch]

Maybe you should realize that this is a discussion forum not simply a marketing thread for EA. And, if the subject is so "well worn out", why isn't there a solution?

You have the solution. You're happy with your grapple!

You're not going to buy an EA grapple even if they increased the opening.

 

[Xfaxman]

I was one of those encouraging EA to make a wider opening grapple for their larger tractor grapples.

My 6' Monster Grapple opens to 51 inches and sometimes I need more.

 

[IslandTractor]

You have the solution. You're happy with your grapple!

You're not going to buy an EA grapple even if they increased the opening.

1) This isn't all about me. Many grapple newbies seek advice here.
2) I may have a perfectly functional grapple but I've always had a hankering for the style of upper lid that EA developed for their 50" compact. If something like that was available in a size that didn't cut down on my opening width, I'd try to convince them to sell me just the upper lid and would replace mine.

 

[Snowback]

Well I'll vouch for EAs design. 37" has been plenty wide open for me personally, and it's strong like bull with loads of force for crunching large piles down.

New shoppers should feel confident that you can grab pretty darn much all the brush you want with an EA grapple. It's just so light, well designed and strong for grubbing that I could not be happier.