HYDRAULIC - Yanmar Flow for Power Beyond, Power Steering and 3PT

[countrybrianf]

A hydraulic system only has some much pressure at a given RPM. Each Item in you hydraulic circuit will use some of the total pressure. On your configuration like you have it now it sounds like when the loader is used it takes a good bit of the system pressure and that is why you use some power steering. You have pressure coming out of the OUT port of the fel control when in use and that powers the power steering at a lower pressure?? Cant do much to fix that.

For the problem with loosing function of the 3pt while using power steering you can try running the FCR EX to the 3pt and the OUT to the steering to fix the problem with loosing 3pt while using power steering. Sound like you loose all pressure after it comes of the power steering and this could fix it.

If you were lifting something too heavy for the loader and the cylinders were not extending that would mean there is no fluid flowing to the rest on the circuit and you would loose power to PS and 3pt because there would be no pressure or flow.

 

[Jtullis13]

The way it is set is great for me, Scotty was asking if anyone can see any problems with the setup that would lead to a future problem. The 3pt lifts just fine, as well as the loader. The PS only cuts out briefly when raising the loader. I knew what would happen if I set it up,this way, I was trying to get the best of both worlds for response and function & this was my current solution. So not trying to fix anything here, just asking for opinions. Scotty has the issue with his loader dropping way to fast & I believe I found the reason & solution for him.

 

[kenmac]

I'm sure there are several ways to plumb these things. I would say plumb them to what ever works best for you. As long as you have a return, you shouldn't dead head the pump. If you don't dead head the pump you and everything works, I would say you're good !

 

[winston1]

I disagree with the fast loader drop. I believe you must have a bad loader valve. No reason for a good valve not to feather the loader down. It should not have to depend on back pressure. Having said that, if it works for you then go for it.

 

[kenmac]

I re checked mine today. Seems I have loader function maybe 1350 rpm but it's very slow. It will lift the front tires off the ground at that RPM . As I increase RPM, I increase loader speed.

 

[Jtullis13]

Winston I think Scotty was saying that he installed a new loader valve and after he did he added his PB port which changed how he had things plumbed from my understanding. And that he has to feather the loader down at all times where he didn't before with his old loader valve. It could be a bad valve but I find that hard to believe since its new. Scotty do you have anything you want to add?

 

[Jtullis13]

Kenmac your loader is slow! Or slow compared to what I have I guess. And I suppose it will be that way since none of us have a separate PS pump and reservoir for our tractors. That would be the ideal setup for PS!

 

[Scotty Dive]

Thanks all for the continued dialog. I still have lots of questions and will consider the using of the EX port from the FCR to the 3pt. But not sure if that is solving any problems. The original issue is why we have lost loader function at low idle and lost the ability to control the loader when dropping a load all when adding Power Steering. Added to that, when re-plumbing we experience additional negative symptoms.

As for the feathering of the loader valve I am working with BRAND Hydraulics who is saying that it should not dump so quickly, but Jtullis also experienced a similar situation hence the theory of back pressure. He has a different manufacturer of loader valve so that adds to our theory.
Some additional questions I have are:

1. By using a Y connection out from the Loader Valve combining Power Beyond and the Out port fluid flows, does that dilute the pressure in a significant way? I have no idea what pressure the out port fluid is but I would think it is close to max pressure? True or False? What are we gaining or losing here? My original logic is there would be flow out of the Y connection regardless if you are using the loader valve or not and that would feed the Power Steering. I remember JJ (or someone else) saying that the out port handles only 500psi. This is the main reason to use Power Beyond instead of the loader out port to run the 3pt. Using that logic, I have no idea how all the other loader valves in service are not exploding because clearly our 3pt need high pressure to operate and lift the loads they are capable of.
2. Is there a way to increase pressure in the system? I am pretty sure (not in front of the tractor as I write) I am at 2200 psi now. I doubt I can go much higher.
3. We are assuming that we have diluted the volume or pressure by adding Power Steering, but here is my math where it does not make sense to me:
My original 7cc pump created ~2.4 gallons of fluid at low idle and 4 gallons at 2200 rpms. Using a cc to gallons converter on the web my math is: 7cc X 1300rpm = 2.4 gallons and 7cc X 2200 Rpm = 4 gallons.
The new 9cc pump creates 3.09 gallons at low idle and 5.23 gallons at 2200 rpms. Again here is my math: 9cc X 1300 Rpm = 3.09 and 9cc X 2200 rpm = 5.23.
Now my new pump makes more than a half-gallon more at the same idle as the original. Adding insult to injury, my original 7cc pump probably had slippage due to being original and worn so the difference is probably a fair bit more. Does adding PS take that much demand? One relatively small cylinder?

Lastly, I am wondering what it would do if we went from:

Pump to IN of Flow Control valve
Flow Control Out to IN of Power Steering
Power Steering Out to One side of the Y
EX port of the Flow Control to the other side of the Y
Y feeds loader Valve.

 

[winston1]

The out port pressure would be responsive or regulated by downstream usage. There would theoretically be no pressure unless something downstream is using the system. Such as 3 point use. Unless something is being used the system is basically just circulating fluid. Make any sense?

This response is to #1 and to this statement. "have no idea what pressure the out port fluid is but I would think it is close to max pressure? True or False?"

 

[bmaverick]

Nice thread. I'll be watching and bookmarked this. I hope to get a FEL from Fredricks in the future for the YM2610. My co-worker with the YM1720D and FEL has Yanmar factory Power Steering. He's never mentioned any issues with the lack of loader lift/decend, PTO, and power steering issues all at the same time.

 

[Scotty Dive]

Nice thread. I'll be watching and bookmarked this. I hope to get a FEL from Fredricks in the future for the YM2610. My co-worker with the YM1720D and FEL has Yanmar factory Power Steering. He's never mentioned any issues with the lack of loader lift/decend, PTO, and power steering issues all at the same time.

Can you get him to share how his is plumbed and loader response?

 

[Scotty Dive]

Can you get him to share how his is plumbed and if he has quick felt response?

 

[winston1]

Butting in but pretty familiar with factory power steering. The factory power steering goes from pump through diverter valve. The diverter valve tees it to both power steering and 3 point. Second picture shows the power steering unit. Note the return line dumping in the top of the transmission. The line going to to His loader could be plumbed in several ways. Quite confident the 1720 and my old 2002D were very similiar hydraulic wise. When I bought mine The line was cut going from diverter valve to 3 point and loader tied in with out power beyond. I later added power beyond and it did improve quickness, but not much.

 

[bmaverick]

Can you get him to share how his is plumbed and if he has quick felt response?

I'll ask. He may not be all that tech savy other than, the diesel goes in the tank and the oil goes in the cap with the dip-stick.

BTW, his 1720D has the typical Fredricks Koyker loader setup. Not sure if that helps any unless someone has a Yanmar with OE PS and the loader added by Fredricks.

 

[Jtullis13]

Can you get him to share how his is plumbed and if he has quick felt response?

Scotty it sounds like it the hydraulic flow is plumed like our aftermarket PS is plumbed with the exception a different diverter valve. But I could be wrong. And obviously we have changed the flow of how it was meant to be set up. His seems to be plumbed like Hoyes kit is supposed to be. Also any news on your loader yet??

 

[Scotty Dive]

The only update I can share is that Brand replaced my loader valve under warranty - Swapped it in, but besides testing for operation, I have not been able to use the loader with any weight to test the drop rate under load Hope to get to that soon, but my schedule has been a bit busy to say the least.

 

[winston1]

The only update I can share is that Brand replaced my loader valve under warranty - Swapped it in, but besides testing for operation, I have not been able to use the loader with any weight to test the drop rate under load Hope to get to that soon, but my schedule has been a bit busy to say the least.

I am interested in what you find when time permits.

 

[Jtullis13]

Yes please let us know what your results are.

 

[Scotty Dive]

I have a little bit of good news....as a reminder, I was having difficulty with my new loader valve and being able to feather the lowering of a heavy object in the bucket. After talking to Brand Hydraulics, I convinced them to replace my loader valve. I swapped it back in a couple weeks ago but didn't have the time to put anything heavy in the bucket to try it out, however this weekend I put in a 600 pound wood stove in the bucket using my forks. The new loader valve work like it should. I was able to feather the wood stove down and control it so one problem solved. As for the plumbing I have yet to do what Jtullis has done but I do have every intention of going down to my local Hydraulics place and printing out some of the drawings that we posted here and having a discussion to see what they think about the whole mess. stay tuned more to come.

 

[winston1]

Good to hear about the loader valve being the culprit in the feathering down issue. Confirmed my post #24 thinking. Very interesting thread. Will be wating for further developments.