Buying Advice First CUT: Sizing and Used Options

DieselBound · Sep 18, 2016

motownbrowne said:
You can do it, yes. I usually plow my whole drive going forward then turn the blade around and push the banks back in reverse.

There are a few problems with doing the whole thing in reverse. Namely that the three point is designed to be operated the other way. It's much easier to bend and break stuff if you're going backwards than forwards. Also, moving snow is different than soil. Snow is much lighter, and instead of leveling it, you want to get it gone. By going forwards, you can safely travel much faster and throw the snow quite a ways, which is what you want. Also, there's the visibility issue. Much easier and more fun to wind out the tractor, put down your blade and zip to the end of the drive than to try to do it going backwards.

Yeah, going forward with a blade/plow on the front is definitely the way to go. I was just thinking that going forward with a blade on the back would be a bit problematic in deeper snow.

motownbrowne · Sep 18, 2016

DieselBound said:
Yeah, going forward with a blade/plow on the front is definitely the way to go. I was just thinking that going forward with a blade on the back would be a bit problematic in deeper snow.

Yep, in deep snow you're absolutely correct. Back blades aren't very tall anyways, so deep snow isn't their forte. If the forecast calls for more than 6-8", I go out after there's 4" on the ground. I could put the blade on my bigger tractor, which also has more aggressive tires. I'd be able to go forward through more snow, but it'd just spill over the top of the blade.

When it's deep, pushing backwards is a good option. A loader, even with just a bucket works too. Either way, unless you've got a blower, you're gonna be out there a while...

FreedomFamilyFarms · Sep 19, 2016

Just stumbled on the Bxpanded loader mounted snow blade: 72 Inch Snowplow

It's about half the price of an SSQA mounted blade. Blade floats independently of the tractor bucket and you can offset by ~8 inches to move the banks (advantage over SSQA mount). However, angle is manual and the whole rig looks like it adds a LOT of length to the front of your machine. I'd love any first hand accounts with this tool and how much snow you're moving with it.

varmint · Sep 19, 2016

IMO, the blade would stick out so far in front of the tractor that leverage from pushing snow sideways (which is what you gotta do, to clear it ) would man handle the tractor off to the other side. A SSQA blade is bad enough, unless you have a 3 ton tractor.

fatboycowen · Sep 19, 2016

I got myself a dirty hand tools 22 ton splitter from lowes, with one of their 20 percent off coupons (which was expired, but they let me use it, and i barely had to ask). It was about 800 bucks, since i waited till they had it on sale.. Small and simple, but extremely powerful and well built. The 22 ton has easily handled everything i throw at it. I'm glad i didn't spend double on a 35 ton that my friend recommended. There's no need. I too was considering a 3 point, but i'm glad i didnt.
Best part is, the engine, which is a cheapo kohler, is identical to the $100 harbor freight predator engine. Same bolt pattern and even looks identical. So, if it craps out or gets beat by ethanol, i won't bother tinkering with it, i'll just replace it in half an hour. It's refreshing not worrying about the engine. Though, i do change the oil, since it's cheap and easy.
Just leave it by your wood shed, and fire it up whenever needed. I don't even keep mine covered, and it's been 2 years, fires on the first pull every time. I move it around with my garden tractor, and still have the bigger tractor bucket available to move wood.

DieselBound · Sep 19, 2016

fatboycowen said:
I got myself a dirty hand tools 22 ton splitter from lowes, with one of their 20 percent off coupons (which was expired, but they let me use it, and i barely had to ask). It was about 800 bucks, since i waited till they had it on sale.. Small and simple, but extremely powerful and well built. The 22 ton has easily handled everything i throw at it. I'm glad i didn't spend double on a 35 ton that my friend recommended. There's no need. I too was considering a 3 point, but i'm glad i didnt.
Best part is, the engine, which is a cheapo kohler, is identical to the $100 harbor freight predator engine. Same bolt pattern and even looks identical. So, if it craps out or gets beat by ethanol, i won't bother tinkering with it, i'll just replace it in half an hour. It's refreshing not worrying about the engine. Though, i do change the oil, since it's cheap and easy.
Just leave it by your wood shed, and fire it up whenever needed. I don't even keep mine covered, and it's been 2 years, fires on the first pull every time. I move it around with my garden tractor, and still have the bigger tractor bucket available to move wood.

Sounds like a perfect match to your requirements! I like it when people think things through

I also had contemplated a 3pt splitter and ended up with a standalone (also a 22 ton- mine, however, has a Subaru engine and I'm hoping that it lives up to the extra price tag- it works really well for me); I tow my splitter with my Polaris Brutus; wife and I can then both go out together.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Sep 20, 2016

I'm seeing the logic in the standalone splitter. Will likely come down to price. Almost swapped a generator I'm getting ready to sell for one last week but it didn't have a valve of its own (relied on tractor valves to run it). I'd probably place the splitter fairly low on my list knowing I have two neighbors with towable units. Checking out a Kioti and TYM dealer this Thursday (passing through). I've been working up an implement wish list/spreadsheet. These items add up FAST.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Sep 22, 2016

Stopped at the Kioti dealer and drove a CK3510H. Loved it. Everything felt just right. Loader valve is perfect. Operator station is comfortable. No problems getting on the machine from either side and I could see behind me turning either direction with my foot on the HST pedal.

There is a TYM dealer in the same town so I checked them out too. The 35 hp model they had was being rented to an equipment rental shop that was sub-renting it to someone else. I feel sorry for the sucker that buys that "new" machine.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Nov 18, 2016

The new house is done and we're in it. Check from the old house is on its way to the bank. I need to get the brush on one side of the lane mowed before the snow hits so I'm hoping to make a decision and purchase a CUT in the next month. I found that there are more Deere dealers around here than any other brand and one of them is close and highly recommended by neighbors. I'm going to give them a look soon, possibly next week. New Deere gear is above my budget, but a used one might be just the fit.

The current leader is an LS G3033. Our local Bobcat dealer (11 miles away) picked up LS when Bobcat stopped branding Kioti's. This is a Tier 3, 33HP, HST, 4WD, with R4s. The ONLY thing I don't love about it is the location of the loader valve. Dealer and I have worked out a price that includes installed rear remotes, plumbing for a hydraulic snow blade, and a Bobcat SSQA snow blade, bucket hooks, and delivery for $19,450.

Updated price check in LS Forum

mike69440 · Nov 21, 2016

varmint said:
IMO, the blade would stick out so far in front of the tractor that leverage from pushing snow sideways (which is what you gotta do, to clear it ) would man handle the tractor off to the other side. A SSQA blade is bad enough, unless you have a 3 ton tractor.

4 ton tractor, still gets front end pushed around when angle plowing more than a few inches. Short wheelbase, and Plow is way in front of front axle.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Nov 30, 2016

The budget is smaller than I was hoping. I'd like to be in for $14,000 for the tractor, flail mower ($2000 delivered), and a method of moving pallets (SSQA forks or clamp on will work at this point). I've been cruising Craigslist, eBay, and several local dealership websites several times a day. I just found Machinery Pete this morning. So far I have seen tractors in the 1000 hour range with most of what I'm looking for except the HST. One lead is a Massey Ferguson 1529L 28.5 HP, Synchro Shuttle, with Loader and R4s. Comes with a Curtis cab that needs a new windshield and a rear blade. Seller is asking $9500. Also a Mahindra 3016 28 HP, shuttle, with SSQA loader and R1s with 198 hours for $11,500. I have a Massey dealer a couple miles from here and he thinks the 1529L should be more like $7,500. Of course, he'd like to sell me a new tractor. We talked about a GC1705 22.5 HP, HST, SSQA loader with R4s for $9999. Its about 1000 lbs lighter than what I've been looking at. Given the change in budget I'm not sure which direction to go. Older larger tractor with less desirable tires and/or transmission, newer much smaller tractor with all the desirable features, hold out for something better? I need to get my driveway mowed and move some large rounds of cottonwood at the end of the driveway before it snows and would like to have a machine this season for snow removal. Renting equipment to prepare the lane is an option and I could hire out snow removal...

The LS I was looking at is still available but once I buy it there's no money left for implements. So far, its the most capable machine for the money. I'd love to hear some opinions.

RNeumann · Nov 30, 2016

Id jump on that Mahindra! It's in the price range, size you want, HST and in the budget. I looked for months to try and find used. After nine months of looking I ended up with a new one before I was buried I snow or paying to have someone else plow. Mahindra 3016 is a Japanese Mitsubishi tractor with a very good track record from what I have seen and experienced with mine. You are looking at good machines so any of the above would be fine. It's also nice you had good luck with your Mahindra dealer. How is the LS or MF dealer near you?

FreedomFamilyFarms · Nov 30, 2016

I wish the Mahindra was HST. It's a shuttle. I have a dealer close by that I've done business with so I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. Prices on new ones there are unbelievably inflated due to their financing.

Im right where you were, looking to hire out the driveway if I don't find something soon.

RNeumann · Nov 30, 2016

Another few I tried to find used was the Kubota B3300 and the B3030. Both were popular, solid and could meet your needs. As noted eBay was a solid place to look if you don't mind traveling. Kioti also has a good track record and the used machines seem to pop at good prices.
As you found Mahindra also has some good deals with the used machines.

I assume you found www. Tractordata.com They have a feature that allows you to go back from a current model and see the previous model- it helps knowing models numbers when doing internet searches. Eg: instead of searching "Kubota HST" you can search "Kubota B3300 HST"

Sorry for the misread you did say shuttle for the Mahindra.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Dec 4, 2016

Brought home a Kubota B2710! Met nearly all of my requirements and priced well. $10k cash. At 271 hours I should get many years of work from her.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/372605-brought-home-kubota-b2710.html#post4622701

Thank you everyone for the buying and sizing advice. Planning to move snow with a rear grader blade this year and see how it goes. Going to order one from Everything attachments tomorrow. More expensive than a King Kutter, but the offset should help get the snow off the driveway a little farther while keeping my tires on the gravel. Probably get the box blade too so I can pick them up from the freight terminal at the same time.

Joining the Flail Mower Nation soon as well. Placing an order for a 59" Caroni Flail when AgriSupply opens tomorrow. Lots of brush to cut before snow falls so I have a place to push snow. I'll order a subsoiler from them to save a few bucks on freight (won't need it for a while).

Also ordering clamp on forks from Palletforks.com. Didn't get the SSQA so I'll have to try clamp on for now. Should be fine for my use, just take a couple minutes longer to get attached.

Found the operator's manual and shop service manual in PDF format for a few bucks online. Printing the operator's manual now. Looking forward to a fire and some reading later!

RNeumann · Dec 4, 2016

Check out the "snow edge" pinned forum post under snow removal. It is a relatively inexpensive device that attaches to the bucket. From the looks of it it would be a good way to augment the rear blade.

Congrats on the tractor purchase. Glad you were able to find a good machine for a good price. It's barely broken in the motor with so few hours!!

DieselBound · Dec 5, 2016

Great job! Hard to beat these B-series tractors for their hardiness and flexibility.

TheMan419 · Dec 6, 2016

For snow removal I would look at Edge Tamers. Edge Tamer | R2 Manufacturing

I have them for this year. Last year I just used the FEL "naked" as it were. I think these will be at least as good as a rear blade and a fair bit cheaper. Of course if you have other need for the rear blade then you get double duty.

FreedomFamilyFarms · Nov 5, 2017

Hello Friends,

I've had the B2710 for close to a year and I wanted to close the loop on this thread for anyone else looking to make a decision on a similar sized tractor . I've put about 40 hours on her this season.

I picked up the tractor just a few weeks before the first snow last year. I noticed that it wouldn't stay in 4WD when running in around my property. I didn't think much of it at first but when the first snow fell I couldn't keep it in 4WD for more than a couple feet. I had already rolled one of the front tires off the bead so I decided to send the tractor to the local dealer to have the front tires tubed (per TBN thread advice), the rears loaded, a full fluid service, and to troubleshoot the 4WD issue. I called my local dealer (had done previous business with them on my Toro ZTR) and the shop closest to me was not a Rim Guard dealer but their parent shop about an hour away had a relationship with an adjacent tire shop that was a Rim Guard dealer.

The dealer, More's Farm Store in Columbia City, IN was running a winter service special including free pickup and delivery. Within about a week they repaired the 4WD (lever bar was bent) and performed all of the service I requested. I was pleasantly surprised how affordable the service was.

That was the only snow we got last season that was worth plowing so I can't really attest to how well she moves snow. I did apply the horse-stall-mat-squeegee trick to my back blade. If you need longer plow bolts to make room for the rubber mat ASC has them. I'll admit, I'm looking forward to some fluffy stuff to give it another try.

The only other problem I've had was vermin related. The tractor would not charge the battery. At first I thought it might be the dynamo but the service manager at More's in Fort Wayne helped me rule that out. I found a thread here on TBN that helped me to diagnose the problem. Whoever had the tractor before me had mice. The space under the dash panel makes a nice place for them to nest. Once I got the panel off it was obvious that many of the wires connected to the regulator were chewed bare and one was severed. I picked up a soldering gun on Amazon and repaired the wires. Still no luck. I ended up ordering a regulator from Messick's and now the battery charges perfectly.

This season I planted a lawn. The box blade from ETA worked very well with this machine for moving and smoothing dirt around the property. Adding the BXPanded Piranha Toothbar greatly improved my ability to dig into a large pile of dirt I was spreading over the lawn. I also cut a swale ditch where my sump pump drains to get the water away from where it drains out (had been a soggy mess). The ETA rear blade was great for cutting the ditch.

I used the ETA subsoiler several times to cut roots around trees I pulled. It worked quite well on my heavy clay soil. I was able to lower the subsoiler to it's lowest setting in two passes. I plan to use this implement a lot next spring planting trees (keyline subsoiling).

The WoodMaxx FM62 Flail Mower has been great. The epic "Let's talk flail mowers" thread was very helpful. I decided to give the Woodmaxx a try and am very pleased with the product. It's highly over-engineered and I doubt I can break it with my little CUT. I can cut pretty much anything I've thrown at it, I just have to slow down a bit when things are really thick. I was mowing down bushes that were 15 feet tall with roughly 2 inch diameter stems last week by raising the flail and pushing the bush over in reverse, then lowering the flail and very slowly mulching the stems. The 2 pound duck-foot flails definitely resemble something a wood chipper company would come up with. It's wicked what that thing can do on my Kubota! It also does a nice job pseudo-finish mowing. We mowed 4 acres this season and occasionally we'd let it go a bit too long for the ZTR to get through it effectively. The flail did a near finish quality job and didn't slow a bit on turf grass.

The clamp-on pallet forks are one of my favorite implements. I use them more than I ever imagined. Last week I unloaded a 10' long 700# pallet from an Old Dominion freight truck at the end of my driveway containing a swing set. I also had a huge pile of cottonwood rounds I moved with them that I could never have hoped to move with 3 or 4 grown men. They're heavy enough you wouldn't want to move them far but I can manage mounting and un-mounting them myself with no trouble.

Last but not least is the Pat's Easy Change system. I opted for Pat's in case I end up with an implement that's not compatible with a standard quick hitch. This makes hooking up implements a breeze. There is a slight learning curve, but after a few hookups I only have to get off to connect the top link and PTO shaft. DON'T leave the bar that spaces the lift arms on while Flail Mowing...

A few pieces of advice I'll volunteer for anyone getting ready to make their first purchase:
* Your dealer is a lifeline. I underestimated how valuable a good dealer was until I had the 4WD repaired and made several calls to my local service manager. That man has walked me through several rounds of troubleshooting over the phone without looking at the service manual. I can't emphasize enough how much of a difference it makes to know you have someone with that much experience in your corner. If you can, have a local shop work on something else to see how it goes. If it takes 3 weeks to get a mower into their shop, you might want to keep looking. I had some mice related issues with my ZTR last summer and was able to "test" the service at More's before committing to a Kubota. I was partial to orange so it was a good fit for me. I was very close to buying a new LS tractor from our local Bobcat dealer. They only sell a dozen tractors a year and I'm confident I made the right decision working with a higher volume shop.

* Make a budget for everything including attachments and put it in a spreadsheet. I could have bought a shiny new tractor or an older tractor with implements but not both. I'm very glad I went the route I did.

* Cash is king on used purchases. It's a lot of fun to pay for a tractor with hundred dollar bills and you'll get a much better deal if you know the market and aren't afraid to haggle.

* Don't settle. Once you've posted your needs/desires/requirements and you have an idea of how much tractor you need, stick to it. An appropriately sized older machine will serve you much better than a new machine that is too small or out of spec. I had several opportunities to purchase a geared machine and I'm so glad I held out for a hydrostatic transmission.

* Skip the wood splitter. I really thought I wanted one. No way I could purchase one that performs as well as a standard gasoline powered splitter with a small CUT. It's just not worth the hours on the machine for a splitter. I was able to work out a good deal to borrow a neighbor's when I need one for the stuff that's too gnarly to split by hand.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to TBN, this is a wonderful resource!