Buying Advice First CUT: Sizing and Used Options

[varmint]

The Kioti's I have looked at impressed me. I would consider buying one, but they have been very rare used in this part of the country- there just aren't a lot of them. Same for dealers. That doens't mean they aren't good, of course. As for CUT's hydraulic pressure, that isn't the issue with a 3 pt. splitter- it is the flow rate. So look at that when you decide. A BX25 would power a splitter, given enough of your patience.

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

11.7 GPM... How does that stack up?

 

[jeff9366]

I checked into Kioti dealers. There is one about 90 minutes from my place.

I called this weekend just for fun (thinking I'd rule them out) and priced a CK3510HST with R4s, loader, and 2 rear remotes over the phone. 34.9 HP (28 at PTO), HST, 11.7 gpm hydraulics, weighs in at 2,734 pounds without the loader. I was quoted $18,675 plus tax for the whole shebang new with warranty. I'm thinking I couldn't touch a Kubota, Deere, or Mahindra with those specs for anything near that price.

Off a small base, Korean tractors are the fastest growing tractor brands, with Kioti and LS leading, Branson and TYM trailing. In thin markets, can individual dealers move enough volume to survive? Tractor buyers are so conservative!

I have shopped LS at the Sunbelt Ag Expo in Georgia. I was impressed. But my excellent Kubota dealer is just six miles from me. The nearest LS dealer is eighty miles from me. (I do not wrench.) Distance aside, I feel LS is excellent competition to Kubota.

When you need the Kioti to go in for service bear in mind it will have to travel 60 X 4 = 240 miles / two round trips.
Whether you transport the tractor or the dealer fetches it, this is a good bit of time and expense.

Have you discovered the dedicated Kioti and LS forums on T-B-N?

 

[motownbrowne]

The ck2610 is the same tractor with less HP, just so you know. It's even cheaper. Like maybe 15%. Yes, it's got fewer ponies, but for loader work, driveway work, skidding firewood, etc. it'll perform exactly the same as the 3510. Also, it doesn't have the emissions equipment.

And yes, I do think you can touch a Kubota or Mahindra for that price. Like I said, check out the L2501. If you're paying cash, the Kioti is cheaper. If your financing, probably the Kubota. Also, price out the implements you want to buy right away too. Get quotes from wherever you'd get them, then have them added to your Kubota quote. Seriously they're giving guys incentives on tractor/implement deals currently. Also, something to consider is the used market. People don't seem to have any problem selling used HST Kioti tractors. Kubotas seem to get snatched up really quickly. Faster than any of the Korean brands, that's for sure.

Edited to add: Also, glad to know another x27 user. I split about 10-15 cords/year with my Fiskars and my Gransfors Bruks splitting maul. Have you seen the new Fiskars 8lb isocore maul? I'm gonna have to try one eventually.

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

I have an LS dealer a few miles from me. They're very much on the top of the list of possibilities. Thanks for the quick math on the round trips, puts things into perspective. I will make sure to broaden my used search to that area of the state in case a used Kioti comes up. With the new prices being significantly lower than the other brands, a used one might work really well for me. Wouldn't mind a Tier 3 with a few hours on it. There's a TYM dealer in the same town as the Kioti so I might just have to stop there too.

Another question: With a 2 year full warranty plus 2 year drive train, what are the odds I'd need to have the tractor serviced at the dealership? Just trying to be practical. A warranty is great, but I've rarely had the need to use one on any purchase I've made. Once the warranty is up, how hard would it be for my local shop to obtain parts for a Kioti? Has anyone tried ordering parts for them?

Will check out the Kioti forum. I've been on the LS forum a number of times. Last I checked, it seems their once bargain prices have risen to match the other manufacturers.

Haven't seen the 8 lb Fiskars. Wish I had. I just got the Council Tool maul a couple months ago. Its a sweet tool. Axe eye hickory handle feels great and the wide body of the axe profile makes it far easier to aim than a roundish sledge handle. Would not hesitate to order another Council Tool product. Drop forged American made high quality stuff.

 

[DK35vince]

Another question: With a 2 year full warranty plus 2 year drive train, what are the odds I'd need to have the tractor serviced at the dealership? Just trying to be practical. A warranty is great, but I've rarely had the need to use one on any purchase I've made. Once the warranty is up, how hard would it be for my local shop to obtain parts for a Kioti? Has anyone tried ordering parts for them?

I have owned my Kioti for 15 years.
I never go to the dealer for parts, I order them over the phone or online and they come to my door.

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

I have owned my Kioti for 15 years.
I never go to the dealer for parts, I order them over the phone or online and they come to my door.

Exactly the advice I was looking for, thanks Vince.

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

Just learned that the Bobcat dealer in Fort Wayne that sells LS tractors opened another dealership in Grabill... 12 miles from home. I think I'll start my search there and see where things go. Off to the LS forums again...

 

[motownbrowne]

I have owned my Kioti for 15 years.
I never go to the dealer for parts, I order them over the phone or online and they come to my door.

These days the Kubota dealer I go to (where I bought my tractor) wants to charge shipping on parts delivered to them. I figure if I'm gonna pay shipping, they'd darn will better ship to my house. If your dealer or another dealer will ship you parts and not charge shipping twice, that's as good or better than driving to the actual dealership.

I've never had my Kubota in for service, and barring a major failure, I would not see any need to take a new tractor in.

 

[DieselBound]

These days the Kubota dealer I go to (where I bought my tractor) wants to charge shipping on parts delivered to them. I figure if I'm gonna pay shipping, they'd darn will better ship to my house. If your dealer or another dealer will ship you parts and not charge shipping twice, that's as good or better than driving to the actual dealership.

I've never had my Kubota in for service, and barring a major failure, I would not see any need to take a new tractor in.

My Kubota dealer always mentions shipping costs. I usually just have them piggyback my order on some other order. I think that you get dinged shipping charges if you look to expedite parts.

 

[DieselBound]

Thanks for all the thoughts on the splitter. Let me clarify and see it this changes your opinion. I'm the fastest splitter for most wood. I can cut a round in less than a minute with a Fiskars X27 or my Council Tool maul and a spare tire splitting rig. Its the mean, knotty, nasty pieces I'd use the splitter for. I've had pretty good luck so far moving the wood in rounds (a loader would do a fine job at this since I can scoot rounds into the bucket at ground level) then splitting next to the woodshed so I'm not handling individual pieces more than a couple times. The splitter would only come out when I have an hour or more of the nasties to work through and speed isn't as important as raw power for this application. Would a ~30 HP CUT give me the hydraulic pressure I need for the splitter to break these up? All the specs on the splitter rely on the tractor itself.

Another question about dealer location. Based on some of the comments above, I checked into Kioti dealers. There is one about 90 minutes from my place. I called this weekend just for fun (thinking I'd rule them out) and priced a CK3510HST with R4s, loader, and 2 rear remotes over the phone. 34.9 HP (28 at PTO), HST, 11.7 gpm hydraulics, weighs in at 2,734 pounds without the loader. I was quoted $18,675 plus tax for the whole shebang new with warranty. I'm thinking I couldn't touch a Kubota, Deere, or Mahindra with those specs for anything near that price. Can anyone with recent Kioti experience chime in?

My wife and I were both using the Fiskars. But as great as these are there are large rounds that you need a power splitter for. And, let's face it, eventually you'll get older and, if like me, shoulders will start to complain about all that pounding: I wish that I'd gotten a power splitter years ago.

Anyone selling PTO-driven splitters should tell you what the needed flow rate is. Figure out what kind of splitter you'd need (based on your wood there- find out what others use) and then scale your tractor. But, as I said, PTO-driven splitters don't tend to cycle very fast: you can get a good standalone splitter for not much more than a PTO one and it'll be a lot more efficient (and save wear on your tractor). My 2 cents.

 

[motownbrowne]

My Kubota dealer always mentions shipping costs. I usually just have them piggyback my order on some other order. I think that you get dinged shipping charges if you look to expedite parts.

I wish that was the case here. I paid $14 shipping on the service manual for my tractor. I definitely didn't need or express a need for expedited shipping. It took a week to arrive.

 

[jeff9366]

With a 2 year full warranty plus 2 year drive train, what are the odds I'd need to have the tractor serviced at the dealership? Just trying to be practical. A warranty is great, but I've rarely had the need to use one on any purchase I've made. Once the warranty is up, how hard would it be for my local shop to obtain parts for a Kioti?

You are new to tractors. In my experience, you are going to have inevitable new tractor 'punch list' problems the first 100 hours. First service is usually 50 hours for fluid changes and punch list repairs.

As part of the tractor operator learning experience you a 90% likely to bang up something requiring repair, maybe several somethings, the first 100 to 400 engine hours. This is an almost inevitable part of learning tractor and implement limitations.

 

[Polarisjunky]

I kicked around this before I purchased my tractor. I looked at Mahindra, Deere, LS, Kioti and Kubota. My biggest factor in my purchase was dealer network. I have 3 Kubota dealers and 2 Deere, 1 Mahindra dealer withing 30-45 minutes of my house. The LS and Kioti dealer were 1 hour plus away and the dealerships were small engine repair shops. The Mahindra was the most expensive(Deere was cheaper) and the Kubota had the best financing.

I choose the Kubota L3301 with a quick attach front end loader, quick attach 66" loader bucket, 60" box blade, 64" 3 point snow blower, loaded r4 tires and a block heater(norther Michigan). The dealership offered free delivery. The Kubota came with a 6 year warranty and offered 0% financing for 60,72 and 84 months without additional fees like the other companies.

I have put approximately 13 hours on my tractor and do not regret my purchase at all. It does all that I need to do. I was told by many members to buy a bigger unit. For my needs and wants this was the perfect tractor for me.

Get out there and talk to the dealers and tryout the tractors.

As far as a 3 point log spliter goes, I would not do it. The cycle rate will not be fast enough. I buddy has one for his 30 hp Deere and hates it. He used it once and put it up for sale. He can split by hand 10 times faster. If you really want a log splitter, buy a tow behind with its own engine/hydraulic pump.

Good luck and have fun

PJ

 

[varmint]

PJ's comments seem perfect to me. If you are in love with the idea of the 3 point splitter, see if you can "test" it with whatever tractor you wind up with before you buy it. The wood I have access to, ash and oak, can be very hard to split by hand. I have a fair amount of 20-28" rounds, and I am too old to want to split much of it by hand. Some of it, I don't think I could split by hand even if I really wanted to. The old 35 ton gas splitter simply rips thru it. A short groan, and pop!

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

Stopped at the LS dealer close to the house today. Drove a cab model XR3100 series. Nice machine. Size feels right, comfortable, love the HST and joystick. They have a G3033H with an IT4 Mitsubishi engine (33HP gross, 26@PTO, 2710 lbs + 1,124 for loader, 1600 lb loader capacity, 90.7 inch loader max lift height, with R4s I can take home for $17,500 (cash only). Need to go to their other location where the G3033H is located and drive it. Is my search over?

Also cross posted a price check in the LS forum: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...48-price-check-ls-g3033h-hst.html#post4550649

 

[motownbrowne]

As I understand it, the older model with the Mitsubishi engine regens every 4-5 hours, whereas the new LS engine is more like every 30. Just something to consider.

I think your search isn't over, but it's underway. Keep us posted.

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

This one has no DPF... its Tier 4 interim. If I've been informed with the wrong info, I'd pass on a regen every 5 hours...

 

[motownbrowne]

Another thing to think about:

You're gonna drop somewhere between 15-20k on a tractor and some implements. Go try them all in the size you like. Make a spread sheet to compare the specs, etc. Then pick the one you like the best. The price is important, yes, but you're going to be owning this equipments for many years. Think about the difference in price for the one you want versus the cheapest one. It's much easier to swallow when you realize that the difference is spread over many years. Don't let a thousand bucks one way or the other be the main deciding factor.

Personally, I'd probably pick the Kioti ck2610 over that LS. A few less ponies, but no emissions equipment. Quite a bit cheaper too. That's just on specs and from reading here, though. I've never driven either one.

 

[motownbrowne]

Another thing to think about:

You're gonna drop somewhere between 15-20k on a tractor and some implements. Go try them all in the size you like. Make a spread sheet to compare the specs, etc. Then pick the one you like the best. The price is important, yes, but you're going to be owning this equipments for many years. Think about the difference in price for the one you want versus the cheapest one. It's much easier to swallow when you realize that the difference is spread over many years. Don't let a thousand bucks one way or the other be the main deciding factor.

Personally, I'd probably pick the Kioti ck2610 over that LS. A few less ponies, but no emissions equipment. Quite a bit cheaper too. That's just on specs and from reading here, though. I've never driven either one.