Is it time for a gasoline engine tractor?

[buickanddeere]

I found it interesting when I read a few years ago, that a modern fuel injection system can put fuel to an engine like an old school, high performance 4 bbl carb never could.

I have not been following the evolutuion (up to Tier 4 final) off-road diesel engines. Do any still have a conventional injector pump and injectors? Then, if push came to shove, you should still be able to make it run, and just throw the rest of that stuff in the garbage where it belongs.

There was an interesting article in Green Magazine several months ago. A port injection system was retrofitted to a JD 4020 iirc. Power was up 10% and fuel consumption was down 20%.
That is just with a 1960's low compression engine. Direct Injection and high compression would move the gas HP/gallon/hour into the low-mid range of diesel efficiency territory. Gasoline efficiency per btu would be about par diesel. Part throttle load efficiency of the gasser would exceed diesel part load efficiency.
A single barrel carb on a log manifold just can't accurately distribute the ideal mixture to each cylinder.

 

[ultrarunner]

Carburated gassers cars burning unleaded if they made it to 100,000 without at least a valve job and a set of rings . They were a wheezing oil burning clunker. Now a fuel injected gasser running unleaded doesn't even rate mentioning for going 300,000 with just filters, belts and two spark plug changes.
The 300,000 mile gasser makes more power per cu" than the old carburated gasser. Seem to hold together just fine without blowing up with the "added stress".

I guess I just must have the good ones...

My 1972 Plymouth Valiant has 220,000 miles original engine and towed my contractor trailer everyday.

The 1985 Chevrolet 305 V8 has 180,000 miles with original drive train... and it works very hard because from the first week I got it the tool boxes and rack plus supplies put me over GVW so much I had to add helper springs.

I drive a very steep hill several time a week for the last 20 years... it is about a mile up... I put it in first and just take my time... easier on the truck for sure.

Maybe changing my oil and filter every 2500 miles has something to do with it?

 

[daugen]

My 1972 Plymouth Valiant has 220,000 miles original engine and towed my contractor trailer everyday.

that was a light car...360 V8?

You just have good genes. Anyone who owns a Cat bulldozer has them.

 

[ultrarunner]

Valiant has a 318 with auto and front disc brakes...

Used it all the time to pull a 1 yard concrete gondola back when you could do such things and welded up the trailer hitch myself...

The ready mix plant was never more than a couple of miles from the job on city streets...

I had to add extra spring leafs and air shocks to handle the load... also took out the back seat and built a platform for my tools plus the big trunk and a roof rack... it carried water heaters across the back on top of the trunk and 50' of 6' redwood fence, posts, rails and concrete...

 

[stuckmotor]

We could run through 2 tanks a day running our M. Same usage with our D17 Allis Chalmers gassers.

I never had enough money to do much work with my gas tractors.

 

[stuckmotor]

We could run through 2 tanks a day running our M. Same usage with our D17 Allis Chalmers gassers.

The person who told me about going through a tank before lunch said they'd fill both the main tank and the tiny starter tank with gasoline and when the main tank ran dry, that was the signal to switch to the starter tank and come home to eat and refuel.

 

[Turbys_1700]

The person who told me about going through a tank before lunch said they'd fill both the main tank and the tiny starter tank with gasoline and when the main tank ran dry, that was the signal to switch to the starter tank and come home to eat and refuel.

We used to plow with D-17's and M's. The 17's would pull 3-16" bottom plows while the M's would pull 2-16's. They pulled like the dickens but they liked the fuel. All we had in the 60's was gassers. My dad sold a lot of D-17's. They were very popular in that era and you still see a lot of them doing lighter work around the farm. A 60 HP gas tractor likes fuel. AC rated them as a 50 HP tractor. They were rated at the PTO. They typically pulled 53 HP on the dyno. Most everything back then was underrated.

 

[Btown]

Who makes a diesel with variable valve timing, shuting down cylinder's and other shut stuff?

VW diesels shuts down all cylinders when you are not stepping on the accelerator. They have been doing this since 1998 in the USA. They refuse to bring over the start/stop technology they have had since the 80's.

 

[Egon]

VW diesels shuts down all cylinders when you are not stepping on the accelerator. They have been doing this since 1998 in the USA. They refuse to bring over the start/stop technology they have had since the 80's.

Thanks.

 

[Egon]

Valiant has a 318 with auto and front disc brakes...

Used it all the time to pull a 1 yard concrete gondola back when you could do such things and welded up the trailer hitch myself...

The ready mix plant was never more than a couple of miles from the job on city streets...

I had to add extra spring leafs and air shocks to handle the load... also took out the back seat and built a platform for my tools plus the big trunk and a roof rack... it carried water heaters across the back on top of the trunk and 50' of 6' redwood fence, posts, rails and concrete...

The 318 was a very good motor.

 

[Kubota 2350]

+1. An excellent use for an otherwise useless resource.

AND............it is renewable forever.:laughing:

And useless forever.

 

[ultrarunner]

The 318 was a very good motor.

Only once did it leave my stranded and that is when the timing chain went... less than $40 in parts and I was back on the road... happened near the house buying gas.

It is basically retired now... had it parked out back and basketball sized boulder came down the hillside bank and did a number on the back door...

For 40 years I have desired a barn/warehouse and have not been able to make it happen... came close a few times but no cigar.

 

[GManBart]

Diesels tractors (or generators etc) engines have low specific power. Typically around 20-25 HP/liter. They run, at full throttle, only at less than half of the power they could possibly generate if used to full potential. That is why they last forever. Give them more fuel and/or add turbo and you can easily more than double or even triple the power.
Many manufacturers have tractor models with various power output using exactly the same engine with different injection pump setting.

I never said otherwise, but your statement is only partially true. Go look at diesel generators and you'll see that very few are rated for continuous duty. The same thing is true of diesel engines in boats. They both normally have very specific duty cycle limitations. If you want a continuous duty diesel engine for a generator or boat, the price goes up very significantly.

 

[ultrarunner]

All the Diesel Gensets I have are dual rated.

There is one rating for continuous duty and a significantly higher rating for standby power.

Continuous is typically de-rated anywhere from 20 to 30%

There is no difference in design/build only on how it is used.

 

[Redneck in training]

I never said otherwise, but your statement is only partially true. Go look at diesel generators and you'll see that very few are rated for continuous duty. The same thing is true of diesel engines in boats. They both normally have very specific duty cycle limitations. If you want a continuous duty diesel engine for a generator or boat, the price goes up very significantly.

Continuous duty will have bigger engine with low specific power. Backup duty will have smaller (cheaper) engine with greater power. Tractor diesels have are low specific power so they can be run continuously at PTO speed. While in example car diesel is seldom run continuously at high power.

 

[Redneck in training]

No, the upgrades took a number of years to be implemented and paid off, with some variation from refinery to refinery. The last refineries were upgraded around 2010. The average time to amortize those costs was supposed to be around 5 years going off a couple of industry sites.

You're completely guessing when you say that ULSD refining equipment is becoming worn. Refineries didn't spend $8B just to have to spend it again in a few years because they didn't build a system that would last for a long time.

The process is called hydrotreating. You heat up diesel with sulfur to turn it into vapor then mix in Hydrogen at high pressure. Hydrogen reacts with sulfur. Then gas is cooled down. Diesel liquefies and sour gas is separated and fed in a special burner where the hydrogen is burned and what is left is sulfur. I commissioned control system for several of those units in the US and Middle East. I don't know what is costs to build one of those but my guess is several hundred million per unit. The unit typically runs for several years then it is shut down and "turned around". It might need new catalyst, refractory, calibration, overhaul of the compressor and pumps, new control system every 10 to 12 years and this sort of things.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Tractor diesels have are low specific power so they can be run continuously at PTO speed.

Sure you can run them "continuous" at pto speed, what you "can't" do is pull "full power" out of the pto on a continuous basis...

Well you can, but it will drastically shorten the engine life...

SR

 

[GManBart]

All the Diesel Gensets I have are dual rated.

There is one rating for continuous duty and a significantly higher rating for standby power.

Continuous is typically de-rated anywhere from 20 to 30%

There is no difference in design/build only on how it is used.

Not necessarily.

Diesel generators typically come in Continuous, Prime and Standby configurations. Continuous and Prime are different mostly in that Prime are designed for a fairly set load and Continuous have a variable load. Standby have higher outputs for their given size, but are limited in how many hours they can run at that setting.

Continous/Prime rated generators typically have a larger cooling system, different alternators and are almost always run at a lower RPM than standby systems....1200-900 versus 1800 for standby.

The generators you have may be different, but it's possible to get a diesel generator rated for continuous 100% power....they're just expensive.

 

[ultrarunner]

They are all Onan Gensets powered by turbo Cummins Diesels...

Our typical rating is 150 kW Standby and 125 Prime.

These are used for emergency power for medical facilities and go from stop to speed with load in 6 to 8 seconds... not exactly optimal for any engine... most have 20 to 25 years in service and I would hope for many more but they are now under the Bay Area Air Quality Management District which has plans to sunset older units... and collects an annual fee to remain operational...

 

[GManBart]

Continuous duty will have bigger engine with low specific power. Backup duty will have smaller (cheaper) engine with greater power. Tractor diesels have are low specific power so they can be run continuously at PTO speed. While in example car diesel is seldom run continuously at high power.

Okay, so you're posting this because it agrees with what I've already said and contradicts your earlier post? :confused3:

Tractors are essentially continuous duty applications. Some generators are continuous duty applications, some are not....which is what I said. Most diesel applications aren't actually continuous duty.